Crafting shards onto any item...

[Dark_Knight_Silver]

This is my only gripe with crafting. Added versatility would make this system top notch. I get why random loot has on certain types abilities on certain items but crafting should transcend this handicap. Keeping certain things on weapons and items separate but all items should be created equal

[Ghost6989]

Could you elaborate a little more. From the sound of it you want to be able to put any trait on items and weapons.

[dkyle]

Could you elaborate a little more. From the sound of it you want to be able to put any trait on items and weapons.

He's saying allow, say, Blindness Immunity, on any clothing or jewelry, not just goggles. Don't restrict enhancements to the items lootgen restricts them to.

For a limited set of enhancements, I don't see a big problem. It would allow crafted gear to be special without needing to be strictly better than lootgen gear.

Just don't allow, say, Seeker or Sneak Attack on crafted clothing or jewelry. Powerful effects like that should remain the domain of named items, and crafted/lootgen weapons.

[somenewnoob]

I'd like to see the same. One of my gripes too. Some classes have a tough time finding good items for a particular slot, so why not let them make a useful item with a power that normally isn't found on an item.

Gloves of striding, of blindness ward, etc.

[kernal42]

but crafting should transcend this handicap.

Why?

Why should I be able to make a maul of puncturing?

The weapon type restrictions make just as much sense for you crafting as for random-gen crafting (which, presumably, were crafted themselves at some point); there's no reason to remove them only for the crafting system.

-Kernal

[dkyle]

Why?

Why should I be able to make a maul of puncturing?

To be clear, I'm OK with relaxing clothing and jewelry item restrictions. But not weapon type restrictions. Restrictions on what various weapon types can do are a major part of their advantages and disadvantages.

[MrkGrismer]

I sure would like to be able to put deathblock on something other than 'armor or shield'

[Ghost6989]

I disagree, certain objects/items have an affinity with certain effects. Blindness immunity boots just doesnt make sense imo and though it may prove useful to some people I think has a certain logic the way it currently is. I mean strength goggles for example compared to bracers/gloves/belt of strength. I see it as fixing something that isn't broken.

[Uska]

I'd like to see the same. One of my gripes too. Some classes have a tough time finding good items for a particular slot, so why not let them make a useful item with a power that normally isn't found on an item.

Gloves of striding, of blindness ward, etc.

disagree I think striding should be boots only yeah I know its not now but some effects should only be on some items in my opinion anyways.

[Therigar]

Why?

Why should I be able to make a maul of puncturing?

The weapon type restrictions make just as much sense for you crafting as for random-gen crafting (which, presumably, were crafted themselves at some point); there's no reason to remove them only for the crafting system.

-Kernal

Umm, you shouldn't and I'm certain that's not what's being asked for.

When the restriction is logical then it is easily understood and accepted.

But, what is there about magic that prevents striding from appearing on any clothing or jewelry item? Why does it appear only on the items that it does?

We can accept that even magic is subject to the laws of physics so puncturing cannot be crafted onto a bludgeoning weapon or slashing weapon. But it makes no sense that magical effects on clothing are somehow only able to work on cloaks and boots or that effects on jewelry only works on rings and trinkets.

What is the physical law that prevents the magic from working?

Or, more to the point in a magic dominated world like the Eberron setting why can't magic bend the laws of nature so that mauls can inflict puncturing damage? Part of Eberron lore is that magic is what powers everything. So if I think like an Eberron native I'd wonder, "Why can't I have a puncturing maul?" Just because nobody else has unlocked the secret doesn't mean it cannot exist.

[dkyle]

I disagree, certain objects/items have an affinity with certain effects. Blindness immunity boots just doesnt make sense imo and though it may prove useful to some people I think has a certain logic the way it currently is. I mean strength goggles for example compared to bracers/gloves/belt of strength. I see it as fixing something that isn't broken.

In the original 3.5 crafting system, effects do have an affinity for certain slots, but this can be overridden by paying extra. This might be something worth incorporating; provide some way to pay extra to put effects in unusual slots.

[khaldan]

I disagree, certain objects/items have an affinity with certain effects. Blindness immunity boots just doesnt make sense imo and though it may prove useful to some people I think has a certain logic the way it currently is. I mean strength goggles for example compared to bracers/gloves/belt of strength. I see it as fixing something that isn't broken.

Think of it from a usefulness perspective then: Every item currently makeablle by crafting can instead be gotten through spending a bunch on a randomly generated item. Allowing unusual effects on items allows for a lot more variety in gearing, and makes crafting far more viable than it is now.

[somenewnoob]

Think of it from a usefulness perspective then: Every item currently makeablle by crafting can instead be gotten through spending a bunch on a randomly generated item. Allowing unusual effects on items allows for a lot more variety in gearing, and makes crafting far more viable than it is now.

Exactly. Why make the same junk you can find any day? Make something new with crafting, which would make crafting ....useful!

[steelblueskies]

not true. deathblock belt? deathblock cloak? the latter is a mabar only item afaik. the former is just nonexistent.

striding and featherfalling on one item? not even any named bits with that combo, especially for a logical place like boots.. dt armor can be either/or as well.
we have bracers and scepters with two +1 spell school foci, yet we can't do that either, but i can put a school foci on a ring for example.

the crafting of accesories mods available per slot, the release of the full useful range of modifiers, the restructuring of the modifier minimum level spread(ie +6 stat), addressing the guild augment slots and race restriction modifiers, and at some point them expanding the limited epic augment crystal selection- are all things that have yet to occur, but really should.

at present the best thing i can see to throw together involves a belt or ring containing a guild augment, featherfalling and moderate fort. two of these mods can be met or eclipsed by epic augments. deathblock epic augment, or the ability to put it on a cloak with just about any other useful mod would be great, but i doubt that will occur before mabar does twice.

blindness immunity rings exist in game as random stuff. ditto for blindness immunity necklace. trinket would be a good place for it, and so would armor.

i must agree that blanket mod to slot applicability would be bad. weapon mods belong on weapons predominantly. seeker however really should be available for use on a trinket, armor, or helm. we have them in those places already for named loot.

[Ghost6989]

But crafting isn't so much about breaking the general item laws that seem to be in place. I mean to me crafting it about creating my own specific items that i need and not relying on random drops to get gear that while useful, say 15% striding would sometimes have not so useful stats for me, say +5 to tumble. Its about crafting items, within the laws of the game to suit your own needs. Just because they made it doesn't mean that suddenly gear should be changed to fit any trait or effect desired.

[khaldan]

i must agree that blanket mod to slot applicability would be bad. weapon mods belong on weapons predominantly. seeker however really should be available for use on a trinket, armor, or helm. we have them in those places already for named loot.

Having crafting create items equilivant to good raid drops is a bad idea. Marilith chain has a major downside to it(taint of evil, medium armor hurting evasion melee), and having crafting make a seeker +6 robe with no real downside would be severely unbalanced.

As for making your own bloodstone/CC item, I'm somewhat hesitant of this as well. It wouldn't cause any major balance changes, but would devalue rare named items. I don't have as good a reason for this currently, and I'd like to come back to it.

[Rinnaldo]

This might be something worth incorporating; provide some way to pay extra to put effects in unusual slots.

Exactly what I was thinking. How about just, instead of a 100% chance of crafting the shard onto the item, if it's for an atypical slot (like Striding on a glove), give it a chance of failure. Failure could result in loss of either the shard, the blank, or both. Another option would be to just add more ingredients if you wanted the effect on an unusual slot. So, if you wanted Underwater Action on your chainshirt, you might have to put in 10 vials of water and a Wooden Idol, in addition to the shard and blank chainshirt.

I like the chance of failure better than the extra ingredients, personally, but it could also be done with a combo of the two.

[kernal42]

Umm, you shouldn't and I'm certain that's not what's being asked for.

There's nothing in the OP that specifies he's asking for items and not weapons. In fact, the wording suggests removing restrictions among accessory types *and* among weapon types.

What is the physical law that prevents the magic from working?

The question is an irrelevancy. It's just as meaningless to ask " What is the physical law that allows magic to work?" because there is no sensible answer to either.

The only important thing in terms of having a world that makes sense is continuity. For example, if you can't get puncturing on a maul now, you shouldn't be able to get puncturing on a maul tomorrow, and you shouldn't have been able to get puncturing on a maul yesterday. If this consistency is removed, then there are effectively no rules worth caring about.

Now, there is a difference between "does not exist" and "cannot exit". For example, maybe a blindness-ward helm *could* exist, but does not yet. Unfortunately, this is a distinction we can only speculate over.

-Kernal

[kernal42]

Exactly what I was thinking. How about just, instead of a 100% chance of crafting the shard onto the item, if it's for an atypical slot (like Striding on a glove), give it a chance of failure. Failure could result in loss of either the shard, the blank, or both. Another option would be to just add more ingredients if you wanted the effect on an unusual slot. So, if you wanted Underwater Action on your chainshirt, you might have to put in 10 vials of water and a Wooden Idol, in addition to the shard and blank chainshirt.

I like the chance of failure better than the extra ingredients, personally, but it could also be done with a combo of the two.

Increased chance of failure and increased ingredient cost are fundamentally the same; in either case you should expect to pay more for the successful crafting of the shard.

This is also a poor way of "paying extra" for the ability to craft in unusual slots:
The ingredient cost to get your crafting level high enough to craft the shards in the first place dramatically dwarfs the cost of the actual shard. The cost of the shard itself (or crafting it onto the item in question) would have to increase by a factor of 10-100 (depending on level) to even be noticable in comparison.

Adding, as a cost, differerent, rare ingredients would world; for example if crafting "striding" on your belt required the additional cost of some lightning-split soarwoods.

-Kernal

[steelblueskies]

Having crafting create items equilivant to good raid drops is a bad idea. Marilith chain has a major downside to it(taint of evil, medium armor hurting evasion melee), and having crafting make a seeker +6 robe with no real downside would be severely unbalanced.

As for making your own bloodstone/CC item, I'm somewhat hesitant of this as well. It wouldn't cause any major balance changes, but would devalue rare named items. I don't have as good a reason for this currently, and I'd like to come back to it.

Prefix+suffix. Seeker trinket with suffix would devalue bloodstone, yes. But only if it provided equivalency.
We already have multiple variants of the same mod depending on what it gets applied to.
So add seeker for trinket and cap it's bonus.
If the only value in marilith chain is the seeker bonus and not the multiple other modifiers, then the named loot is broken as is the gearing specificaly for it.
Furthermore I'd again suggest limitation via specific shard availability.

Looking at this from an arcane perspective the crafting extending to 75 had +2 spell school foci. Those are presently exceedingly rare.
Yet those could be crafted, and in places not available presently, such as rings.
So clearly the system is confused already as to it's goals.
End of the day rarity, doesn't equal good or even worthwhile.

The argument you present thus reduces to we should not be able to make things as useful as some that already exist, which is patently absurd. Skillful application without limitation should be an alternative path.
With limitation should be a utility path.
And as it is now, is a gimmick with all the utility of a cracker Jack or happy meal prize.

Further, remember they intend for a whole set of recipe's that must be found/won through challenge system content, which significantly negates arguments involving the need to farm for something rare being devalued.