Robes VS Armor

[game5551]

So I am a level 13 rogue, with just enough dex for TWF. My AC has consisted of a chain shirt +5 and that is it. I just got a ring of protection +5 (20k in the AH ), and dex +6 boots, and there are barkskin potions, which can increase my AC a little, but at what point is the AC required to not be hit with some regularity going to be unattainable for me? When should I switch to robes? Which robes should I wear? The only robes that look really interesting to me are the deathblock + invulnerability robes, but I am not sure what enemies can overcome magic DR. Are there better robes to look for?

Thanks.

Edit: Reading the below posts, I wasnt very clear (or misread those posts). I know i cant hit an AC of 60, I am trying to limit my agro anywise as a rogue to keep SA up. I know that meaningful AC can be easily made at low levels, and that high levels I wont be able to get a meaningful AC (60). But when is that switch? And if I give up on AC, what do I do with the body slot?

[Therigar]

Mithral breastplate is your best armor option.

Your DEX is not enough to justify trying to leverage AC via robes/outfits or thru some other armor type (like the epic leather from Crystal Cove).

Longer term you might benefit from Dragontouched armor out of Reaver's Refuge but it is probably a close thing. Gaining an insight bonus to AC will help as will crafting a natural armor hat next time Crystal Cove comes around. Insight bonuses can be added to DT armor or crafted on Shroud (greensteel) weapons.

There are also various dodge bonuses on items.

Overall, though, your best bet is to kill faster as your AC will be tough to improve to any meaningful level. So, more STR and more CON for added HP.

[game5551]

Mithral breastplate is your best armor option. [...]

Right now I have chain shirt +5 I believe Mithral breastplate +5 gains me +2 AC (one from extra dex, one from better armor). Cant log on now, but this should put AC at 24. Protection +5 gets me to AC 29. Barkskin pot gets me to 32. Before I spend a ton in the AH on the mithral breastplate, will an AC of 32 matter at level 13?

Overall, though, your best bet is to kill faster as your AC will be tough to improve to any meaningful level. So, more STR and more CON for added HP.

Yes, but what do I wear instead of the armor?

[Therigar]

Before I spend a ton in the AH on the mithral breastplate, will an AC of 32 matter at level 13?

No.

OTOH, you can't afford to ignore armor completely. With no armor you're going to get hit 19 out of 20 times.

If that drops to 12 out of 20 times then the investment in armor is worthwhile.

If it doesn't then you might as well wear starter robes.

What do you wear instead? I find deathblock of heavy fortification makes a good choice. At least you aren't falling over from insta-kill spells and getting smashed by ogre double-crits.

But, neither matters if you aren't pushing the HP. Because the only answer to low AC is high HP. Either that or get comfortable riding in backpacks....

IMO you have done what many players do -- you listened to people tell you how great it would be to run a STR focused rogue. Only, you don't have one bit of gear to make that STR build really work.

So, you are essentially hosed because you didn't know any better and you thought that the people offering advice did. You failed to recognize that 90% of those giving advice are hard-core players who assume lots of top gear, tomes, etc. And, you couldn't have known that getting those things was actually hard.

You find yourself stuck and wondering how to fix your character. Only there isn't any fix.

The best you can do is bump every little bit into AC that you can in order to improve the miss chances. So, again, mithral breastplate.

Next, you get serious about finding the items you need to boost your HP. Maybe you were lucky and started with a 16 CON. Grab up Toughness and all the available tougness enhancements, the best false life items you can find and work on getting favor from Argonessen. Go farm for Minos helm as well.

If ever in doubt grab a shield and shield block until some party member comes to your rescue. Even if not proficient it boosts AC and gives DR to boot.

Lastly, learn to be slow going into fights. Make sure aggro is somewhere else and that it stays there. If they aren't trying to hit you nothing else matters.

[Seikojin]

Armor isn't your limiter, class and stats will be. If you want to pure rogue, then you need to have max dex and put every point into it. Then find armor that fits that bonus. Usually robes. But with a 15 or 17, your dex will never be high enough to make your AC matter in the high end content. I can get my ac to 63 and I get hit fairly often in the amrath content. I will say at that level, I get missed a lot pretty much everywhere else. But that also means I am not doing any epic content. My oldest son always say, ok, you can do gianthold. What he means is I am 95% missable in gianthold on all difficulties. But that is melee. Spells still hit and they can hit hard.

If you want a really high ac for pure rogue, max your dex, and stack some bonuses. The highest you can get single classing as a rogue will be close to 60 iirc.

[Alektronic]

It's a d20 system. So, 60 is a magic number (miss 95% in GH), so -20 means anything over 40 AC counts. An AC of 30, unfortunately, is not much better than an AC of 10.

For the most part, if armor won't let you hit >50, robes are good for the extra effects you can get on them, and you can switch them out pretty fast (for multiple useable effects). If you have the Reaver's Refuge pack, this is a good time to look into getting some dragontouched robes/outfit. If not, here are some things that might help on some robes:
deathblock
fortification (if not on an item)
greater fire/ice/acid/electricity resist
haste/rage/fog/... clickies
hammer/spear/axeblock
"shadow" (for stealth builds)
command
....
The list goes on. Basically, robes can fill what you don't have in your equipment. Remember to throw that armor back on when/if you're doing favor runs tho.

[Alektronic]

It's a d20 system. So, 60 is a magic number (miss 95% in GH), so -20 means anything over 40 AC counts. An AC of 30, unfortunately, is not much better than an AC of 10.

For the most part, if armor won't let you hit >50, robes are good for the extra effects you can get on them, and you can switch them out pretty fast (for multiple useable effects). If you have the Reaver's Refuge pack, this is a good time to look into getting some dragontouched robes/outfit. If not, here are some things that might help on some robes:
deathblock
fortification (if not on an item)
greater fire/ice/acid/electricity resist
haste/rage/fog/... clickies
hammer/spear/axeblock
"shadow" (for stealth builds)
command
....
The list goes on. Basically, robes can fill what you don't have in your equipment. Remember to throw that armor back on when/if you're doing favor runs tho.

I only mentioned midgame content. To add to this, 80 is the magic number for elite Amrath, meaning 60+ AC gets some mileage in "endgame" content. Epics START at 90+ AC to get some misses. I assume the magic number is 110AC for epic small guys, but never had/played with a character with such a high AC.

[ThePrincipal]

for ac you will need to get multiple types of stacking ac... pally aura, bard songs, deflection, natural, dodge, insight, shield, armor, dex mod, wis mod, haste, ritual, stance, CE, ship buffs... so the secret to ac is getting a little of everything rather than a lot from one or two sources. a fighter that relies on plate and shield will soon realize that it becomes useless around lvl 13 without other ac types.

base is 10
dragontouched or greensteel has the +4 insight
there are multiple sources dodge bonuses usually +2
natural is +5
deflection is +5
armor is at least +8
dex... should max whatever armor allows. at least +10 for a rogue.
you can take the CE and dodge feats for +6 total
shield spell/clickie +4
ship buff +2
ritual +1
haste +1

58 self buffed. More two weapon defense, moar dex, pally aura, bard ac song... you're talking 70+

[Thaxlsillyia]

for ac you will need to get multiple types of stacking ac... pally aura, bard songs, deflection, natural, dodge, insight, shield, armor, dex mod, wis mod, haste, ritual, stance, CE, ship buffs... so the secret to ac is getting a little of everything rather than a lot from one or two sources. a fighter that relies on plate and shield will soon realize that it becomes useless around lvl 13 without other ac types.

base is 10
dragontouched or greensteel has the +4 insight
there are multiple sources dodge bonuses usually +2
natural is +5
deflection is +5
armor is at least +8
dex... should max whatever armor allows. at least +10 for a rogue.
you can take the CE and dodge feats for +6 total
shield spell/clickie +4
ship buff +2
ritual +1
haste +1

58 self buffed. More two weapon defense, moar dex, pally aura, bard ac song... you're talking 70+

nice breakdown of possible sources of AC. But not everything is possible in a rogue.

IMO CE and dodge feat should be listed for the sake of listing. No pure rogue will have the spare feats to take them.

There are several levels of AC:
1. AC-don't care,
2. Normal trash mob ac
3. amrath ac
4. raid boss ac

I went for option 1. my unbuffed AC stands in the mid 40s and serves me well when i run lower-mid lvl raids for completions. i could umd a shield wand, put on my chaosgarde and chattering ring for another 9. drinking a few pots, defensive stance, putting an alchemical AC bonus on armor and making a GS AC item will push it close to 60 at which point it will be at best an OK trash mob AC at level 20. But it just took up some valuable gear slots away from me.

I would not recommend dropping AC from the start. AC increases relatively proportionately with the "to hit" of monsters till about 13-14. But beyond that you need to swap in very specific gear to be able to increase your AC. At higher levels your HP, damage mitigation and aggro management will play a greater role than AC.

But coming back to the OPs real question - "my AC seems to matter less as I level up. So should I wear robes instead of armor? and what robe should i wear? To be more precise will invulnerability be a good effect on a robe?"

My 2 coppers: Wear what ever gives you the best AC with least slots use. There are also some nice named light armors around. My preference would be to go for armor over robe. Th crimson chain that was recommended previously is awesome. The crystal cove event armor was a great option too with its +4 dodge and 12 dext bonus limit. If you do decide to use robes you might need to get an armored bracer. The icy raiment from the sub will be a good choice but very hard to get. A well customized dragon touched armor/robe will be a great choice later.

As for invulnerability, I feel the majority of damage comes from weapon sources than magical source. I had a deathblock of heavy fort on my rogue for a long time ( inspite of the ugly green color).

Pit falls to avoid as a pure rogue - Combat expertice, dodge feat, 2 weapon defense feat

[Dirichlet]

Just thought I'd point out that you can get the same AC from cloth anyway, with that +Dex item you've got. 15 base + 2 Tome + 3 Rogue + 6 item puts you at 26 (+8) Dex. A +5 Mithril Breastplate gives you 15 AC since it caps your Dex bonus to +5. At level 13 you can get as high as +7 bracers (which you've got about as much chance at getting off the AH as you have a +5 Mithril Breastplate), which gives you the same +15 with your Dex. Add in all the goodies like Deathblock and there's no reason to wear a rust suit instead of a summer dress.

Not that I believe your AC will reach a worthwhile figure either way mind you.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

This whole debate is silly. OP, at your level and your build, forget AC, go to good robes and focus on DPS. Aggro control and teammates are your new AC.

[qwert_yuiop]

this Whole Debate Is Silly. Op, At Your Level And Your Build, Forget Ac, Go To Good Robes And Focus On Dps. Aggro Control And Teammates Are Your New Ac.

+1

[xveganrox]

If you're still considering going with armor, the new Parasitic Breastplate might be a nice choice. Assuming you have a dex of 23 (26 with enhancements), you'll be able to use your full +8 dexterity bonus to AC while also getting its +10 armor and +3 stacking natural armor bonuses. I'm currently running a STR based rogue myself, and with party buffs, Chaosgarde, Chattering Ring, Parasitic Breastplate, and full party buffs I'm able to reach an AC in the mid-60s (at level 18) which gives most enemies a substantial miss chance. Definitely look into getting at least Chaosgarde, and a Wand of Shield (10th level) is an excellent choice as well - a 10 minute boost of +4 shield bonus to AC (and immunity to magic missiles to boot!) can be very helpful. Obviously you're going to want a ring of deflection +5 as well, and potions of barkskin if you aren't partying with a ranger.

As has been stated above, Combat Expertise and Dodge would likely be inefficient feat use. It goes without saying that the Rogue Subtle Backstabbing enhancement line should be central to your build, as the less aggro you generate the less necessary a high AC is.

[Kinerd]

It turns out that invulnerability becomes less useful at right about the same time as AC becomes less useful for non-AC builds (like yours): level 10-12ish.

Frankly, your armor won't contribute much of anything. You can get guards, but you're based on not getting aggro, so you won't get hit much. You can get healing amp on DT, but again avoiding aggro, and lower HP to start with, so it won't really matter. At the very far end you could get red Dragon armor, but that's not something to worry about now.

[karl_k0ch]

Frankly, your armor won't contribute much of anything. You can get guards, but you're based on not getting aggro, so you won't get hit much. You can get healing amp on DT, but again avoiding aggro, and lower HP to start with, so it won't really matter. At the very far end you could get red Dragon armor, but that's not something to worry about now.

While leveling, the Snakeskin Armor from Frame Work comes really handy since it frees you from swapping your search item on and off.

But DB/Heavy Fort is a nice combo, indeed.

[MindCake]

Heavy fortification, for sure. Getting critted isn't fun.
ML 10 robes with that (and usually some useless guard effect) are quite common. (ML8 robes are rare and expensive).

I try to wear heavy fort + deathblock whenever I can. Quite common robes with this combo have ML 14 if I recall correctly.

If you managed to obtain some other item with heavy fort, you could try getting something like spearblock robe/armor, to cut down on the damage from enemy archers.

[ciopo]

imho, go get this http://ddowiki.com/page/Crimson_Chain

[elujin]

i would go for the armor/ robe that helps you best invurnebility is a nice one for early on the crimson chain above is nice too dt armors can be costumized to your prefrence just don't look at ac its going to be useless in a few levels ^^

[.Revenga.]

As your ac won't matter anyway, i suggest you switch to robes as they have the benefit of being intantly swappable.

At lvl 16 you can wear dragontouched armor, which has some very nice possiblities, +5 resistance, +20% healing amp, radiance guard is a popular one, but you can choose what you like.

Before that, there are some decent possibilities: deathblock of heavy fort, deathblock of axeblock/spearblock/hammerblock were ones i used alot in my time. ( invulnerability won't work anymore)
Also greater resists can be nice ( fire, ice, acid mostly)

Sadly the only really useful prefix is the deathblock one afaik, so not much choice there.

[Narwe]

My ranger 6 / monk 1 uses fire guard / axeblock robes at the moment. Up until level 6 she was using mithral chain, but once she could wear the guard/axeblock it was a simple choice (and AC isn't that different)