Turbine please block Divine Punishment in PVP

[Chai]

those all have saves attributed to them.

there is also a certain shield that will block dance / enchantment spells...

there still remains nothing to block the full force of DP - even after the caster dies.

Saves against bard songs? A mere technicality.

There are also ways to make it so a caster cant cast....

This however, would involve the caster allowing the melee to get close, which is in and of itself a mistake.

[Yajerman01]

Hehe.

At a 99DC, I love it!

Philarian Shield is a counter

[Chai]

Philarian Shield is a counter

Stun and trip are a counter.

[plural]

If you can't beat it, join it. Make a FS and use DP on someone else. If you are going to complain as a melee that its no fun, go pvp in another pvp pit with another melee if your getting grief.

I enjoy pvp on a mild scale in this game. Not a pvp hater at all.

[Yajerman01]

If you can't beat it, join it. Make a FS and use DP on someone else. If you are going to complain as a melee that its no fun, go pvp in another pvp pit with another melee if your getting grief.

I enjoy pvp on a mild scale in this game. Not a pvp hater at all.

I would agree with you on that premise but for the fact i see problems inherent with that.

1. I go to other pits to actually test things out, all the real action is in the lobster.
2. Going to another pit has failed miserably in the past because everyone ends up in the lobster'
3. I have already sat in another pit and no melees come around unnanounced however plenty of casters move around pits to see who they can greif.
4. posting an lfm about melee pvp and to go to another pit only invites casters unwittingly to your location so they can grief with DP.
5. The idea here is to still manage a fight with the pre U9 against casters even though it was unbalanced a melee still had a chance

DP is an awesome spell, albeit very powerful, and I would never ask to take it away from PVE - the solution is to simply block it out of pvp. to say otherwise means you either do not pvp enough to feel the effect it has in the pit or conversly are a caster yourself and enjoy its newfound uberness it has bestowed upon you and are refuting this for your own benefit.

another thing i do not get is people who do not pvp give all these obtuse responses and denounce why I am protesting it. if it doesnt effect their gameplay then why post against.
(this does not relate to you since you posted that you do pvp)

[justagame]

Will PvP be any better with Divine Punishment gone, though?

Even before U9, PvP was horribly unbalanced. Now it is just horribly unbalanced in favor of a slightly different set of classes.

Agreed. So what? So it's the latest tactic/spell/thing that owns pvp. In a mod or two it will be something else. Continually chasing "balance" in pvp is like a dog chasing his tail. Non-casters hated getting stoned. Casters hated AA's with ioun stones and slayer arrows. Then non-casters hated how the magic missile past life somehow defied protections. Now non-divines hate this. If the devs stopped to re-engineer things every time a class got ****ed off that another class had something that fared better in the pit, it would never end.

[Yajerman01]

Agreed. So what? So it's the latest tactic/spell/thing that owns pvp. In a mod or two it will be something else. Continually chasing "balance" in pvp is like a dog chasing his tail. Non-casters hated getting stoned. Casters hated AA's with ioun stones and slayer arrows. Then non-casters hated how the magic missile past life somehow defied protections. Now non-divines hate this. If the devs stopped to re-engineer things every time a class got ****ed off that another class had something that fared better in the pit, it would never end.

all the listed effects can be countered. Even in the past when a new spell came out, there was a way to work around it.

you cant work around this.

Damage mitigation is the key to surviving in the pit, whether its a full block counter or a resistant mitigator, DR, protection, etc, etc.

Let me ask you. do you PVP?

In fact everyone who wants to interject answer these questions first

1. Do you PVP (my classification is pvping more than once a week and mroe than 7 hours in a week. If so move to the next question
2. Do you have a caster that can cast DP? if yes, please refrain from opining unless you pvp alot, if not move to the next question
3. Do you have a melee that plays in the pit often enough to have encountered DP? if yes than I would like to hear your opinion.

[DrNuegebauer]

Question:

How good are favoured souls in PvP when before this spell? Where they the best class to play?

[Hendrik]

those all have saves attributed to them.

there is also a certain shield that will block dance / enchantment spells...

there still remains nothing to block the full force of DP - even after the caster dies.

And?

They still render melee useless, as per the line I was replying to.

[Yajerman01]

Question:

How good are favoured souls in PvP when before this spell? Where they the best class to play?

I think they are the best PVP class. Pre U9 they were beatable at least - now DP has given them a quasi god-mode

[Kabaon]

Two people agreeing on the removal of a DoT spell from PvP doesn't deem it to be true.

As you said yourself, there are ways to mitigate damage from offensive spells. There's ioun stones, spell absorbtion scarabs, even the Mantle of the Worldshaper. It's no one's fault but your own that you don't use these in game items to your advantage to mitigate the DoT, Arcane or Divine.

Personally I like the inclusion of the the new spells, even if DP kills me in two ticks (undead, deals about 200 dmg a tick, heals don't keep up). It gives you another option in an already limited place in the game. Well over half the arcane spells are blocked in the pit, and a nother good chunk are useless once you see people have Death Ward. And the Divine Casters have very little to work with as it is in the pit. If I remember correctly for offensive spells divines have what, Cometfall, Searing Light, Deific Vengence and now DP? And you want to limit it becuase of "fairness"?

Someone else posted in the forums about 3 or 4 pages back that the order of effectiveness in the pit is Divines>Arcanes>AA Rangers>Paladins>Monks>Other melees (I may have gotten that screwed up somewhere after Rangers), and I would tend to agree.

[Ziindarax]

Niacs biting cold and Eladar's electric surge needs to work EXACTLY like burning blood - limited range and be able to save against it. It's badly abused in PVP as "I win" buttons along-side Divine Punishment because there is nothing that can stop it, and most people don't have access to Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, or even Mantles for that matter (which burn out quickly btw).

If Divine punishment is worthy of being blocked because it's a no-save spell that can't really be stopped, then so should Niac's Biting Cold and Eladar's Electric Surge. Personally though, I just think these spells should be set up as to not be a "no-save" spell because the damage inflicted is much too high for something that can be stacked over and over. Granted, it's PvP so this thread will be largely ignored by the developers...

[The_Mighty_Cube]

This thread has gone on long enough. Players should be allowed to discuss suggestions to improve PvP in this section of the forums, as long as they are following the forum guidelines. Players should not be replying with off-topic statements, including statements that are nothing more than essentially "I don't like PvP." Personal attacks and the like are also not allowed, of course.

[Cordovan]

We'll let this thread be re-opened, but please be aware that off-topic discussions, personal attacks, arguments over who gave negative reputation to who, debates over whether someone is engaging in trolling, etc, will not be tolerated. If you feel a post violates the community guidelines, please report that post rather than respond to it. Thanks!

[protokon]

We'll let this thread be re-opened, but please be aware that off-topic discussions, personal attacks, arguments over who gave negative reputation to who, debates over whether someone is engaging in trolling, etc, will not be tolerated. If you feel a post violates the community guidelines, please report that post rather than respond to it. Thanks!

thanks cordovan!

so to start back off on the right foot...Divine Punishment. currently stacking it more than once really puts the hurt on *everyone* as a crit can easily bypass 600+ damage, even on a divine not specced with smiting.

OP's solution is to get rid of it. I love the spell in the pve environment as implemented, but currently your only defense against it in the pits is an ioun stone / mantle.

so possible solutions (referring to pvp pits ONLY, not PVE):
-disable it entirely
-no longer let it stack
-scale the damage

[Yajerman01]

thanks cordovan!

so to start back off on the right foot...Divine Punishment. currently stacking it more than once really puts the hurt on *everyone* as a crit can easily bypass 600+ damage, even on a divine not specced with smiting.

OP's solution is to get rid of it. I love the spell in the pve environment as implemented, but currently your only defense against it in the pits is an ioun stone / mantle.

so possible solutions (referring to pvp pits ONLY, not PVE):
-disable it entirely
-no longer let it stack
-scale the damage

I agree in part. I am afraid if it is scaled it will somehow effect indirectly aka by accident PVE; thusly my only solution would be to block it. There are other DOT's that might need blocking/minimizing, but I am focusing on the one that absolutely cannot be mitigated whatsoever at this time.

/signed in part - o wait, this is my thread! lol

[Hendrik]

Philarian Shield is a counter

Umm, how so?



Only says Enchantment based SPELLS.

When did they make Bard Song a Spell?

[Teen]

I think they are the best PVP class. Pre U9 they were beatable at least - now DP has given them a quasi god-mode

I think a sorc can keep up air sav spamming electric surge chain and ball lighting flying around. Water Savant Icy Prison+Polar Ray= Death. Fire Savant's Heat Death can do 1800 damage. Earth Savant cant do much besides earthgrab.

[heyytoi]

Umm, how so?



Only says Enchantment based SPELLS.

When did they make Bard Song a Spell?

Go and test it, you'l see

[fluffybunnywilson]

thanks cordovan!

so to start back off on the right foot...Divine Punishment. currently stacking it more than once really puts the hurt on *everyone* as a crit can easily bypass 600+ damage, even on a divine not specced with smiting.

OP's solution is to get rid of it. I love the spell in the pve environment as implemented, but currently your only defense against it in the pits is an ioun stone / mantle.

so possible solutions (referring to pvp pits ONLY, not PVE):
-disable it entirely
-no longer let it stack
-scale the damage

If an opponent can manage to land a single spell with a 10 second cooldown on you 3 times in a row, then they deserve to kill you. If you have a serious problem killing a FvS within 20-ish seconds, then your problem might be FvS wings and not Divine Punishment. Since wings are the most fun thing about the FvS class, I'd really hate to see them lose that in the PvP pits.

Also, I have little faith that changes made to the spell would only take place in the PvP pits, so I would prefer no changes to the spell itself - either inside the pits or outside. I would be disappopinted if the spell were turned off in PvP, but I would be disgusted to see the spell changed because of PvP.

Finally, I think that it's wrong for *ANY* class ability or spell to be disabled in PvP. I don't ask you to promise not to hit below the belt when you go into a bar fight. Why should your character be crippled in an area of DDO just because someone else can't beat you in a fight?

You say that it's not fair for Divine Punishment to work the way that it does in PvP. I say that it's not fair for all of the other spells and abilities that were turned off to NOT work in PvP.

Therigar came up with the only reason to turn off spells/abilities that I think is reasonable and that's just to make sure that PvP doesn't negatively impact PvE play by creating too much lag.

In general terms I agree with this sentiment.[edit - the sentiment that everything should be allowed to function in PvP]

But, in practical terms I have to object.

A serious issue with DDO is lag. It comes and it goes, but overall it is a continuing issue. And, a lot of the issue relates to resources spent on graphics.

Many of the spells that cannot be used are graphic intensive. We've all been in quests where two or three high graphics spells get cast and we've seen the lag kick in.

PvP has a vocal opposition now. If you were to have everything going in instances that are public instead of private you'd see even disinterested, live and let live players like me joining the opposition to PvP in DDO.