Guild Leader Should be able to check Members' renown contro

[Elyanna]

The "big words" thing only has impact if I did not include you in on the terms and the discussion. I am not trying to cut you out here, but include you in on the reasons why people see a problem with this.

You can still want what you want...but can you see the reasons why people do not want what you want? Do you think that is a personal reason to just not like what you like?

The idea of being able to understand data about your team, and make improvements on performance is critical in real world applications. However, if that data is wrong, it can wreck careers. Here in DDO, not so much- but it can cause "drama" and false accusations based on bad assumptions that folks are trying to avoid.

This is a GAME but is has a very strong social element to it. Many folks, myself included, would rather err on the side of the under-performers in a guild, given the notoriously poor data focus that the game can exhibit (leader boards, anyone), especially when considering that the data does not tell the whole story....

And would lead to people making BAD or FALSE decisions based on the data they are getting.

Regards,

muffinamp

Thank you for trying to explain what some of us have been trying to explain for 7 or 8 pages.

[eris2323]

The "big words" thing only has impact if I did not include you in on the terms and the discussion. I am not trying to cut you out here, but include you in on the reasons why people see a problem with this.

You can still want what you want...but can you see the reasons why people do not want what you want? Do you think that is a personal reason to just not like what you like?

The idea of being able to understand data about your team, and make improvements on performance is critical in real world applications. However, if that data is wrong, it can wreck careers. Here in DDO, not so much- but it can cause "drama" and false accusations based on bad assumptions that folks are trying to avoid.

This is a GAME but is has a very strong social element to it. Many folks, myself included, would rather err on the side of the under-performers in a guild, given the notoriously poor data focus that the game can exhibit (leader boards, anyone), especially when considering that the data does not tell the whole story....

And would lead to people making BAD or FALSE decisions based on the data they are getting.

Regards,

muffinamp

I boil it down the salient points, and yes, I understand.

You do not want the ability to see an in-game source of information. You'd rather have nothing.

Gotcha.

Seems piking is okay in guilds, but not raids

Wait, or is it the other way around, oh no, I'm so confused, I better read up

[flynnjsw]

I'm sorry I seemed to have peeved off your whole guild, whoever you are, but I think I'm about to let you three ramble on without me for awhile.

If anyone else actually had anything useful to add, instead of just insulting and repetitive, the conversation might be worth continuing, if only for the chance to improve the guild system in some way.

Kudos on ruining any chance of that though

Have fun!

I boil it down the salient points, and yes, I understand.

You do not want the ability to see an in-game source of information. You'd rather have nothing.

Gotcha.

Seems piking is okay in guilds, but not raids

Wait, or is it the other way around, oh no, I'm so confused, I better read up

Pot, meet Kettle.

[Chai]

because if guildy c does gains nothing in 3 weeks, thatd be nice to know

was i not clear?

You can see that via log in charts and renown decay. As I previously stated, the tools to manage all this already exist.

[IWZincedge]

This may be a good time to interject with a good-spirited "Please play nice, people". So, please play nice people.

--- A Message from Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderation Team ---

[skunk]

This may be a good time to interject with a good-spirited "Please play nice, people". So, please play nice people.

--- A Message from Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderation Team ---

but they looked so good dancing back and forth.

[skunk]

Maybe team with guildies? if they keep refusing, maybe do a guild thing.

you can check how often someone plays. Thats all you need.



This is not needed, won't ever be needed, and shouldn't be needed.

I would rather drop airships, then they ever impliment this idea.

Actually i wish they would delete airships.

[BOgre]

I'm just happy our guild is only lvl 19 and doesn't have to even CARE about decay yet.

@eris: I can see your point, as it's my point too: Guild decay is based on a number, renown is a number, give us access to the numbers, to use or not use as we please.

@everyonelese: I can TOTALLY see your points, and you've convinced me (somewhere around page TWO) that it's not needed, and clearly not wanted. I, personally, didn't want the number as a basis for booting/keeping members, but I can see how it can be used that way (obviously), and that's a bad thing. I, personally, am an active and involved officer in my guild, and since we're small (14 members) I know everyone and how they play and whether or not they're a value to us a whole, all without the number. We're trying to get to 20 for our first ship, but i have no problem punting leeches and taking the renown hit when they leave on bad terms, and taking the further renown hit from 'recent departures', despite the fact it slows down our race to 20. It's more important to me that the people we've recruited are helpful, polite, take the time to read and research on their own, accept help and advice where appropriate, take part in guild activities, register on the website, donate used gear to newer lowbies when they outgrow it, log on more or less regularly, etc. Our recruiters can't know all that when they send their invites, it shows over time, and no renown number can tell you that. I'm new at this still and I'm sure over the coming months and years I'll learn more about how to run a good guild, a successful guild, a fun guild. I'd much rather have all that than have the number.
So, to my own suggestion:

/not signed

[Calebro]

So, to my own suggestion:

/not signed

LOLZ
Best suggestion post ever.
Here, touch my greenis.

[flynnjsw]

LOLZ
Best suggestion post ever.
Here, touch my greenis.

^^This

[Turtlsdown]

...that we add a tool that lets the guild leader (maybe officers) see what you have in your inventory and your bank. And once a month the guild leader can take one thing out at any time. This is so that:

1. Guild leaders can see who is pulling their weight and collecting enough useful raid loot to be a asset to the guild.

2. Guild leaders can redistribute non-bound loot to who they feel needs it the most for the benefit of the entire guild.

3. Guild leaders can have "fun" scavenger hunts and this will let them see who has found all the items 1st, easily and efficiently.

Before you hate, realize that if you think your guild leader or officers might abuse this setup, you are free to Leave Your Guild And Join A New One™. Now that this point is made, apply this ability to all guilds, BAM!

/new&improved

I've only given your concept a new spin. Now, do you think this would help or hinder the continued existence of harmony in this game? I mean, really. With more freedom comes more chaos. Backing something that promotes both more options, and more chaos in the community doesn't mean you are not responsible for support its negative impact.

[Elyanna]

LOLZ
Best suggestion post ever.
Here, touch my greenis.

Thirded!

[Hordo]

It wasn't always this perfect, friend

I love my guild.

And I've put a lot of time into it.

*emphasis added

Join Date: Apr 2010

Srsly?

[Hordo]

This may be a good time to interject with a good-spirited "Please play nice, people". So, please play nice people.

--- A Message from Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderation Team ---

Ok, emphasis added, but tell me which one of the Mod Team dresses up like our Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman? Is it Jerry? Please, tell me it's Jerry.

[macubrae]

I'm the leader of a small guild, and one of our rules is that if you have no good options on your end reward, choose the renown. As the leader, I never pass on an impressive trophy or legendary victory, never. One of our members practically made a level in the 20's by herself, which was impressive to us so we recognized her in the message of the day. It would be a nice tool to see who is contributing, but it seems that if anything can be abused in this game, someone will do it. If the individual toons could turn on or off the ability for the leader to see, I would be okay with that. As long as I don't know what renown has been passed on, I'm okay with it either way.

[eris2323]

*emphasis added

Join Date: Apr 2010

Srsly?

Oh come now, you of all people should know that a) join dates mean nothing, and b) People can have more than one account.

Please refrain from direct insults, as the moderators have suggested.

[azrael4h]

Basically, you are asking for a way to verify that your guild mates are slaving enough for you, and if not, then you'll boot them.

It is a griefing tool, nothing more, nothing less.

[joueur]

This topic has been brought up multiple times. I think at this time, it does not particularly need revisiting.

Dead horse, beaten.