Guild Leader Should be able to check Members' renown contro

[Calebro]

And jumping down someones throat immediately for even suggesting such a feature is just weird.

OK, I couldn't resist.
First of all, we didn't jump down the OP's throat. We gave our opinions. Then you seemed to come here on a crusade to change our minds and went around and around like a broken record about how we should find a new guild.
So we didn't jump down someone's throat for suggesting it. We jumped down *your* throat for believing that your way was the only right way.

I'm asking for choice. If you don't like said rules, don't bother joining THAT guild.

Why would you ever join a guild with such clear rules, if it is not something you also believe?
<snip>
Any guild leader would be able to use this information however they wanted.

So you join a guild you actually agree with.

No biggie.

Or.... you know.... recruit members that actually feel the same way that you do and no policing will be necessary at all.
Which brings me right back to: The good guilds are about relationships, not about accounting. If you feel that adding another level of accounting would make your guild better, then perhaps YOU are the one that needs to find a new guild.

If your guild is so great, and if everyone in your guild feels the same way, then why is this needed?
Maybe you should take your own advise and start your own guild, and make absolutely certain that everyone you recruit feels the same way that you do.
Do that and this system tweak to guilds that has been suggested is utterly redundant.

[BOgre]

also, +1's to all of you. I appreciate a good argument as much as I hate a backlash

[eris2323]

OK, I couldn't resist.
If your guild is so great, and if everyone in your guild feels the same way, then why is this needed?
Maybe you should take your own advise and start your own guild, and make absolutely certain that everyone you recruit feels the same way that you do.
Do that and this system tweak to guilds that has been suggested is utterly redundant.

See above: Re: Contest. Choice, etc.

Thank you.

[Calebro]

See above: Re: Contest. Choice, etc.

Thank you.

See above: Re: Screenshots. Anyone in your guild that wants to participate can SS their renown total at the beginning and at the end, do some basic math, and send the results to you. The winner will be verified. There's no need to look through "thousands of jpegs" as you claimed. You need to look at two.
And there's no reason for Dev time to be sent on something that's either redundant, meaningless, grief-able, or just plain useless, when they could be spending that time on more quests and raids instead.

Thank you.

[eris2323]

See above: Re: Screenshots. Anyone in your guild that wants to participate can SS their renown total at the beginning and at the end, and send the results to you. The winner will be verified. There's no need to look through "thousands of jpegs" as you claimed. You need to look at two.
And there's no reason for Dev time to be sent on something that's either redundant, meaningless, grief-able, or just plain useless, when they could be spending that time on more quests and raids instead.

Thank you.

I already answered this as well. My you DO like to go on Thought it was over...

Can't resist trying to get that last word in, can you.

I will repeat myself, for your benefit: No, we'll just run the regular contests we run now, instead of making this game into more work.

Thanks though, I'm kinda giggling wondering how many times I'm going to have to repeat myself for you now

[BOgre]

Yup. screenies is the way to go for a contest. and as i sed, i made the contest more random and fair by not requiring the player to actually TAKE the renown, just have it drop in a chest.

[Elyanna]

See above: Re: Contest. Choice, etc.

Thank you.

Choice well I am not arguing that since Choice is like an opinion and everyone can have one but there is really only one Opinion as to what goes in game that matters and it's neither yours or mine.

Why should Turbine spend dev resources on a contest for your guild? Shall I prove to you it can be done by running it for my guild? Trust me I can dangle a carrot to get my guildies to do the work and be trustworthy enough not to photoshop a screen if I asked for it. Then all I need to do is make a spreadsheet. If you want to run this contest and have to have Turbine validate the results you are given then maybe you shouldn't be running it in your guild.

[Gkar]

Actually, if it was per character, and exportable into a csv format, it'd be instantly meaningful, and infinitely useful.

Come to think about it... Wow, that'd be so useful just with what we have now, the ability to export into csv format. We can already export our friends list, how hard could be

Data is neat.

How is it meaningful in any way?

I have 40 characters in guild. 39 have <100 renown. 1 has 1million renown. Since you don't know those 40 are connected, how does this give you any meaningful information about anything?

Now if they started creating an account link in the guild list you would be right (and it would of course be useful for many more important reasons)

[flynnjsw]

instead of making this game into more work.

Yet you want people to "pull their own weight" and "contribute" and be able to see who is "leeching". So you are willing to do one form of work, but not another?

[eris2323]

Choice well I am not arguing that since Choice is like an opinion and everyone can have one but there is really only one Opinion as to what goes in game that matters and it's neither yours or mine.

Why should Turbine spend dev resources on a contest for your guild? Shall I prove to you it can be done by running it for my guild? Trust me I can dangle a carrot to get my guildies to do the work and be trustworthy enough not to photoshop a screen if I asked for it. Then all I need to do is make a spreadsheet. If you want to run this contest and have to have Turbine validate the results you are given then maybe you shouldn't be running it in your guild.

As I said, as it is now, no, i'm not going to make more work for anyone by having a contest that relies on screen shots.

I'm asking for devs to look at the guild system and to make a few changes. You seem to be making it into a personal attack and an assumption it will be used for griefing. Now you're trying to say this is just an attempt to make the devs do something for my own guild? Get serious.

I'd almost consider it an insult.

I'm NOT running said contest. It saddens me that I can't run anything like it without a lot of work out of game. The data is in game. I'd like to see it and use it. Not just for that, but because it's useful data, and I'm being charged a renown debt, it doesn't seem fair to not see who is causing that, and who is helping us grow faster.

I will not bother with a contest I have to ask people to send screenshots in.

It saddens me this has become a personal attack now, I thought it was over. Good night.

[eris2323]

How is it meaningful in any way?

I have 40 characters in guild. 39 have <100 renown. 1 has 1million renown. Since you don't know those 40 are connected, how does this give you any meaningful information about anything?

Now if they started creating an account link in the guild list you would be right (and it would of course be useful for many more important reasons)

I know it's a lot to take in, a big thread, but as I stated previously, IF such a list existed, and IF a guild was built on the assumption that an off-line spreadsheet of alts-per-account were kept, it would then easily and quickly be exportable, and importable into said off-line list, and the math would be done.... automagically.

People really hate automagic stuff. It's spooky. Rawr.

[eris2323]

Yet you want people to "pull their own weight" and "contribute" and be able to see who is "leeching". So you are willing to do one form of work, but not another?

I already do a lot of work, why would I want to add more?

[flynnjsw]

I already do a lot of work, why would I want to add more?

Why work at all,? If you play the game with a group of people that you have fun playing with the rest will happen on its own.

[Elyanna]

Why work at all,? If you play the game with a group of people that you have fun playing with the rest will happen on its own.

But then I won't get my ub3r 1337 lvl 100 guild boat, NAO! and I must have it and not lose it.

[eris2323]

Why work at all,? If you play the game with a group of people that you have fun playing with the rest will happen on its own.

And I do, and it does.

Which doesn't change the fact that some people think guild leaders should be able to view a characters individual renown contribution.

[eris2323]

But then I won't get my ub3r 1337 lvl 100 guild boat, NAO! and I must have it and not lose it.

Really, insults shot from the sidelines are all you have left?

Glad I'm not with you in your guild, that'd get annoying.

[Chai]

Or.... you know.... recruit members that actually feel the same way that you do and no policing will be necessary at all.
Which brings me right back to: The good guilds are about relationships, not about accounting. If you feel that adding another level of accounting would make your guild better, then perhaps YOU are the one that needs to find a new guild.

If your guild is so great, and if everyone in your guild feels the same way, then why is this needed?
Maybe you should take your own advise and start your own guild, and make absolutely certain that everyone you recruit feels the same way that you do.
Do that and this system tweak to guilds that has been suggested is utterly redundant.

I agree.

It all boils down to trying to use a quantity method to measure quality, which is almost always a bad idea.

I know quite a few players who are some of the top end players in this game who play weekends and maybe one or two nights a week due to RL obligations. They could very likely get kicked from an "accounting" guild simply for "not contributing" if this is what is used to measure contribution. I would rather have them in the guild than someone who farms renown because they crank out a few 100 favor toons a week and plow harbor quests @ 2-3 minutes / completion until they are blue in the face.

[flynnjsw]

And I do, and it does.

Which doesn't change the fact that some people think guild leaders should be able to view a characters individual renown contribution.

Lots of people think lots of things. It doesn't make them all right.

[eris2323]

I agree.

It all boils down to trying to use a quantity method to measure quality, which is almost always a bad idea.

I know quite a few players who are some of the top end players in this game who play weekends and maybe one or two nights a week due to RL obligations. They could very likely get kicked from an "accounting" guild simply for "not contributing" if this is what is used to measure contribution. I would rather have them in the guild than someone who farms renown because they crank out a few 100 favor toons a week and plow harbor quests @ 2-3 minutes / completion until they are blue in the face.

And if such a mechanic were in place and visible, it would be your CHOICE to run your guild like that.

Others would CHOOSE to do other things.

Right now, there's no choice whatsoever. We get charged a daily renown fee, but we can't see who is contributing.

If your guild doesn't care about that, great, enjoy your low-level casual large guild!

If your guild does, great, enjoy your high-level power guild.

Choice is awesome.

Assuming everyone is going to do the worst the instant you give anyone the ability to do anything even remotely bothersome to people is a bad attitude.

[Elyanna]

As I said, as it is now, no, i'm not going to make more work for anyone by having a contest that relies on screen shots.

I'm asking for devs to look at the guild system and to make a few changes. You seem to be making it into a personal attack and an assumption it will be used for griefing. Now you're trying to say this is just an attempt to make the devs do something for my own guild? Get serious.

I'd almost consider it an insult.

I'm NOT running said contest. It saddens me that I can't run anything like it without a lot of work out of game. The data is in game. I'd like to see it and use it. Not just for that, but because it's useful data, and I'm being charged a renown debt, it doesn't seem fair to not see who is causing that, and who is helping us grow faster.

I will not bother with a contest I have to ask people to send screenshots in.

It saddens me this has become a personal attack now, I thought it was over. Good night.

I'm sorry if what I said sounds like I am attacking you personally. I tend to get blunt when debating points. I wasn't saying you would grief anyone with this but I am 100% certain it can and would be used for it which isn't fair to players who are griefed.