Palemaster: why heighten is applied to death aura, increasing the sp cost?

[strldr3]

Is it a bug or WAI?
I always run with Heighten as i use alot of lower lvl spells on my drow PM. And imagine how annoying it is before EVERY FIGHT to to turn off Heighten, cast Death Aura,then turn on Heighten and continue!

[Alektronic]

Death Aura does dmg to those around you just like neg energy burst. Heighten increases to the save for that dmg.

Devs are supposed to be working on some system to tie metafeats to certain spells/bars. But no talk on when this will happen. When it does, though, you can be sure I'll never cast a heighten death aura ever again .

[Angelus_dead]

Heighten should not be allowed to apply to Death Aura for the same reason it doesn't apply to Cure Light Wounds: both are spells whose primary purpose is giving hitpoints to allies and involves no saving throw. They can have a minor secondary function to damage enemies, but in reality it is too extremely unlikely for someone to want one of them to be Heightened.

[Samiusbot]

Heighten should not be allowed to apply to Death Aura for the same reason it doesn't apply to Cure Light Wounds: both are spells whose primary purpose is giving hitpoints to allies and involves no saving throw. They can have a minor secondary function to damage enemies, but in reality it is too extremely unlikely for someone to want one of them to be Heightened.

Really? Wouldn't that be the other way around.... The spell it is made to damage enemies but it happens to heal undead.

How we as players think of a spell or an item, doesn't always follow the true function of said spell or item.

[Jaid314]

i don't mind personally. but then, i have 3 SP off every level for heighten, which kinda takes the edge off of paying for it.

but yeah, i dunno about you, but i've found that i get a surprising number of times where it's my aura that finishes off a mob.

[richieelias27]

Heighten purposely does not apply to wall of fire or acid rain, both of which are indisputably damage spells. The devs decided to not have heighten apply, I assume, because their save portion is inconsequential.

Whether death aura is classified as a damage spell or not, a mob making its save or not is inconsequential. It should not be heightenable.

[Jahmin]

i don't mind personally. but then, i have 3 SP off every level for heighten, which kinda takes the edge off of paying for it.

You still had iHeightening 3? Wow – that is definitely nice. Guess you really got screwed by the latest enhancement nerf

[sephiroth1084]

You still had iHeightening 3? Wow – that is definitely nice. Guess you really got screwed by the latest enhancement nerf

Heighten I, Heighten II, capstone.

[fluffybunnywilson]

You still had iHeightening 3? Wow – that is definitely nice. Guess you really got screwed by the latest enhancement nerf

Heightening 2 plus the capstone adds up to 3.

[Alternative]

Really? Wouldn't that be the other way around.... The spell it is made to damage enemies but it happens to heal undead.

How we as players think of a spell or an item, doesn't always follow the true function of said spell or item.

Except the spell came out along with the pale master PrE.

It cannot be maximised/empowered, very strange if it's an offensive spell.

Thus it deals a pitiful damage of ~25-50 at lvl20.

Soooo yeah...

[Jaid314]

Except the spell came out along with the pale master PrE.

It cannot be maximised/empowered, very strange if it's an offensive spell.

Thus it deals a pitiful damage of ~25-50 at lvl20.

Soooo yeah...

funny. mine hits for as high as 75-80 on a crit.

[Ryiah]

And imagine how annoying it is before EVERY FIGHT to to turn off Heighten, cast Death Aura,then turn on Heighten and continue!

You'll learn. I started doing it on my new sorcerer because at lower levels I didn't have enough SP to cast Maximized non-SLAs all the time. So I started getting into the habit of switching off and on Maximize and now I can do it pretty quickly. Just tie it to a hotkey or something.

[varusso]

Except the spell came out along with the pale master PrE.

It cannot be maximised/empowered, very strange if it's an offensive spell.

Thus it deals a pitiful damage of ~25-50 at lvl20.

Soooo yeah...

It also lasts much longer than any persistent AOE did even when extend worked on them, and it moves with you. So it deals a great deal of damage overall (if it isnt resisted outright), in addition to the healing it does to all PMs and controlled/pet undead in the party. I use it as an additional damage source when fighting large groups of mobs, but I dont COUNT on it, and I would certainly never (intentionally) heighten it.

I would support removing it from the Heighten list entirely. I honestly cant think of a situation where I would want to spend the extra SP on it, when I can just necro blast stuff instead.

[strldr3]

You'll learn. I started doing it on my new sorcerer because at lower levels I didn't have enough SP to cast Maximized non-SLAs all the time. So I started getting into the habit of switching off and on Maximize and now I can do it pretty quickly. Just tie it to a hotkey or something.

Seems like the only solution for now. Agreed. But the main point of the thread is whether this is the way its intended to work. If so how come cleric's cure/heal spells dont get heighten as well, as they can be used as both healing/damaging(for hostile undead)? I really dont mind if clerics get their heals heightened, as it will provide some consistency among casters and maybe give clerics more offense while fighting undead. I could be mistaken though, as i never have played clerics/fvs.
/peace

[sephiroth1084]

Seems like the only solution for now. Agreed. But the main point of the thread is whether this is the way its intended to work. If so how come cleric's cure/heal spells dont get heighten as well, as they can be used as both healing/damaging(for hostile undead)? I really dont mind if clerics get their heals heightened, as it will provide some consistency among casters and maybe give clerics more offense while fighting undead. I could be mistaken though, as i never have played clerics/fvs.
/peace

DA lasts for ~1-2 minutes and costs 25 SP, 35 Extended and somewhere between 35 and 60 SP Heightened. While its main purpose is clearly to serve as healing for a PM, its damaging properties are likely coming into use quite often throughout a quest. Sure, we'd be happy without Heighten on it, probably (though I don't mind spending an extra 10-20 SP for close to double damage...that's cheaper than Maximize is), but having it up isn't draining us too badly, either.

Compare that to adding 5-45 SP on top of each cure spell a healer is throwing out. That adds up very quickly. On top of that, many quests feature zero undead and the divines likely have better things to be doing than throwing out cure spells on undead when they are present.

Not even apples to oranges here...more like...apples to bushels of watermelons.

[Alektronic]

DA lasts for ~1-2 minutes and costs 25 SP, 35 Extended and somewhere between 35 and 60 SP Heightened. While its main purpose is clearly to serve as healing for a PM, its damaging properties are likely coming into use quite often throughout a quest. Sure, we'd be happy without Heighten on it, probably (though I don't mind spending an extra 10-20 SP for close to double damage...that's cheaper than Maximize is), but having it up isn't draining us too badly, either.

Compare that to adding 5-45 SP on top of each cure spell a healer is throwing out. That adds up very quickly. On top of that, many quests feature zero undead and the divines likely have better things to be doing than throwing out cure spells on undead when they are present.

Not even apples to oranges here...more like...apples to bushels of watermelons.

Whoever said anything about heightening cure spells ? Beckon not the nerf bat.

[Selchin]

What people seem to have missed about this is that, while death aura can take heighten and lists a fortitude save in the summary of the spell, it does not actually have any mention of the fort save in the spell description, nor do mobs seem to get any chance to save in my (admittedly limited) testing. So either Death Aura has a broken save, or should not have a save at all (and thus should not have heighten apply). Either one of these seems like it is a bug to me.

[Jaid314]

Whoever said anything about heightening cure spells ? Beckon not the nerf bat.

that would be this guy:

Heighten should not be allowed to apply to Death Aura for the same reason it doesn't apply to Cure Light Wounds: both are spells whose primary purpose is giving hitpoints to allies and involves no saving throw. They can have a minor secondary function to damage enemies, but in reality it is too extremely unlikely for someone to want one of them to be Heightened.

incidentally, i agree with sephiroth... it's a fairly low cost to heighten (you should have the heighten enhancements on a pale master, imo, because they reduce your costs dramatically for any low level spell you cast), and it makes your auras much more likely to deal damage. it was annoying while leveling up when i didn't have as much SP, nor as much heighten cost reduction... but it gets better. and honestly, for most of the leveling up process, i didn't use heighten that much anywhere until the highest level content (stuff tends to have really low saves in old content, ime. except amrath, of course).

i'm more than happy to pay the heighten cost. you might not think it's dealing much damage, but i've found it quite often kills things that just barely survive my last spell... think of it as being almost like extra healing; because my aura finished off an enemy, i don't have to spam a 10 HP necrotic blast, and i don't get hit by the mob one more time... which potentially could save as much as 50-100 HP, or more if it's a caster.

[varusso]

that would be this guy:





incidentally, i agree with sephiroth... it's a fairly low cost to heighten (you should have the heighten enhancements on a pale master, imo, because they reduce your costs dramatically for any low level spell you cast), and it makes your auras much more likely to deal damage. it was annoying while leveling up when i didn't have as much SP, nor as much heighten cost reduction... but it gets better. and honestly, for most of the leveling up process, i didn't use heighten that much anywhere until the highest level content (stuff tends to have really low saves in old content, ime. except amrath, of course).

i'm more than happy to pay the heighten cost. you might not think it's dealing much damage, but i've found it quite often kills things that just barely survive my last spell... think of it as being almost like extra healing; because my aura finished off an enemy, i don't have to spam a 10 HP necrotic blast, and i don't get hit by the mob one more time... which potentially could save as much as 50-100 HP, or more if it's a caster.

I NEVER heighten my aura (at least not intentionally). It always hits anyway. The only thing that stops it is SR, and thats not really relevant to this. Regardless, it ticks so often, for so long, that it will more than make up for a few resists. And in any case, its primarily a healing thing for PMs. If you add in the "extra' damage it does to mobs over the course the spell's duration, it is probably the most efficient spell (not SLA) that a PM can cast. Heightening it is really just a waste of SP.

[SirValentine]

the main point of the thread is whether this is the way its intended to work. If so how come cleric's cure/heal spells dont get heighten as well, as they can be used as both healing/damaging(for hostile undead)? I really dont mind if clerics get their heals heightened, as it will provide some consistency among casters and maybe give clerics more offense while fighting undead. I could be mistaken though, as i never have played clerics/fvs.
/peace

Heal already gets heightened. I'm not sure why it does when cures don't. With the recent Heal cost increase, Heal now costs more SP (with Heighten) than Mass Heal does!

I suspect that Death Aura causes saves by opponents a greater percentage of the time than Heal does. If they are going to fix it, fix Heal first, please! Or give us the long-asked-for per-spell metamagics.