Review my warchanter please!

[barryman5000]

Trying to plan out a half-orc warchanter and although I am very happy with this build I would like others to tell me if there is something I might have missed. This guy should be able to destroy most anything, play songs, and provide a scroll heal every once in awhile if needed. Rogue skills will be sufficient for most of the game with items.

Since this will be a TR of mine he does have a past life of sorcerer. 20 spells points ftw!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
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Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Half-Orc Male
(4 Barbarian \ 2 Rogue \ 14 Bard) 
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 441 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 15
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    27
Dexterity            12                    14
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             10                    14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                     6
Bluff                 0                     2
Concentration         4                    26
Diplomacy             0                     2
Disable Device        6                    26
Haggle                4                     6
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  1                     2
Intimidate            0                     6
Jump                  8                    12
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         5                     6
Open Lock             5                    19
Perform               n/a                  25
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    26
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  4                     8
Tumble                5                     6
Use Magic Device      4                    25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Barbarian)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Barbarian)


Level 5 (Barbarian)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Power Rage I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II

Max trap skills, max umd, max perform. Very good open lock. Great thf with awesome str. Details are below and are made of using only items that I already have.

Max Stats
----------

Str 27 base + 7 item + 6 rage + 4 dbl. madstone + 6 titan's + 2 rage spell + 2 guild ship = 54 str + 4 orcish fury = 58
Dex 14 base + 7 item + 2 guild= 25 (thinking of getting rogue enhancement here).
Con 16 base + 6 item + 4 rage + 8 dbl. madstone + 2 rage spell + 2 guild = 38
Int 16 base + 6 item + 2 exceptional + 2 guild = 26
Wis 10 + 6 = 16
Cha 14 + 6 = 20

Str above isn't really sustainable but I like big numbers.

HP (Sustainable)
------------------
306 base
366 con +6
376 draconic
396 toughness item
426 greater false life
471 shroud +45hp item
491 Rage spell


Now with rage thats
531

With dbl. madstone and guild buff (for fun)
631


UMD
---
23 base
5 stat
3 spyglass
3 other item
4 gh
1 chant

Total 39 (no fail heal scrolls and other goodies)

[karl_k0ch]

No Extend, no IC:Slash?

Personally, I'd rather go 16 Bard instead of 4 Barb. But that's a matter of personal taste.

366 con +6
367 draconic

draconic adds more than 1 HP, doesn't it?

[barryman5000]

No Extend, no IC:Slash?

Personally, I'd rather go 16 Bard instead of 4 Barb. But that's a matter of personal taste.


draconic adds more than 1 HP, doesn't it?

Wow, yeah 10hp. I have extend at level 3. 4 barb gives me 2 rages and another from warchanter. I get the +1 str enhancements from half-orc and barb at 4 levels.

This gives me +6 str during rage, weapon proficiencies (b/c I know I'll forget master's touch) and some extra hp. 16 bard will give me level 6 spells and more sp, inspire heroics and some more songs. I'm not too excited about any of that.

If I added it right, with a simple 26 con raged I will get 1:06 of rage. It'll be really nice to have that and titan's on at the same time.

I don't need IC:Slash as I already have a very nice Min II greataxe waiting for me at level 12.

Thx for the input though!

[Gorbadoc]

As was said: Imp crit, but no worries if you don't mind relying on Min2.

If this build suits your fancy, then, yeah, it should work fine. If your goal is to squeeze as much performance out of the build as possible, you might consider other level mixes:

14 bard, 1 barbarian (or fighter), 5 rogue
15 bard, 2 fighter (or barbarian), 3 rogue
16 bard, 1 fighter (or barbarian), 3 rogue

No matter how many barbarian levels you take, you're not going to top the DPS charts. My feeling is that you're better off snagging additional sneak attack dice (since optimized DPS matters most when you DO have a DPS build in the party holding the aggro), and allowing yourself to cram additional skills while you're at it. To my thinking, the bonuses from extra barbarian levels just don't match the advantages of rogue or bard levels.

THF versus TWF

• Conventional wisdom says you get slightly more DPS as a TWF build, and this difference increases if you have Inspire Courage or Sneak Attack (since they apply to all attacks equally and TWF gets more attacks than THF). You have both.
• If you have Evasion, your Reflex save actually matters, so the ITWF/GTWF dexterity requirement has added synergy as it improves that Reflex save.
• TWF builds need to obtain twice as many weapons as THF builds.
• You'll be able to kill stuff efficiently with either TWF or THF. Have fun either way; just be aware that TWF can squeeze out a bit more performance.

Ability Scores

• You don't need dexterity unless you're going for the TWF line.
• 12 intelligence should be enough. If it's not, consider picking another race; the Half Orc advantages aren't better than four free ability score points (at least, not on a bard).
• Personally, I start with 12 charisma. 10 is doable if you know you can get the gear you need, which I'm guessing you can.
• 14 constitution is acceptable. 16 would be preferred.
• 18 strength is good. 20 would be slightly better still, but it's not worth sacrificing versatility for.

Race
Compared with Half Orc:
None of the other races suffers an intelligence penalty. All lose at least some of the THF racial prowess and the (slight) strength bonus.
Dwarf --> Almost-comparable bonuses with axes. Better hit points.
Human --> Free feat, free skill points. Human Versatility (skill boost for traps and UMD; other boosts for combat, including Rogue Haste Boost and a simultaneous Human Attack or Damage Boost).
Half Elf --> Dilettante works well with some builds. Paladin + Evasion has appeal. Human Versatility (see above).
Halfling --> Only if you're going TWF. Dex bonus and (if you can spare the AP) even more sneak attack damage.
Warforged --> I'm not a fan on this build, but they do have their advantages.

[karl_k0ch]

Whoops; missed the extend. I'd delay the Extend to 9 or 12 and get THF later in order to get WarchanterI at level 9. This is beacuse I like my Hastes extended.


Btw, I was not suggesting to drop Barb in general; just only to take 2 Barb levels. If you did understand it this way, ignore this message.

2-11 Carnifex, 12-20 Min2 sounds like a plan.

[Infant]

UMD
---
23 base
5 stat
3 spyglass
3 other item
4 gh
1 chant

Total 39 (no fail heal scrolls and other goodies)

Hi barryman5000,

3 from spyglass + 3 from other item? I assume that you have the tier 3 epic spyglass then? Just pointing out...

And about madstone boots: You won't be able to cast spells as a bard, if madstoned, right? Melee bards still use them? I am playing a melee bard myself (don't have the boots). In the last Reaver I was asking myself if I should roll for them if someone puts them up for roll -- or even if I should put them for roll myself, if I get the boots...

Infant

[DaSawks]

I rolled a halfElf Bard this weekend and I love him. Pushed him to level 5 were I picked up an Abishi set from another toon. I took Rogue DIL for the SA. Masters touch for Martial weapons. I think you will like your Warchanter.

[barryman5000]

As was said: Imp crit . . . *snip*

I honestly thought about going twfing and doing another race. I just got tired of doing shroud and will probably follow this advice on a future life. Right now I'm finishing up a shroud item or two but yeah, I wanted to make a set of khopeshes to really tear into some stuff.

Hi barryman5000,

3 from spyglass + 3 from other item? I assume that you have the tier 3 epic spyglass then? Just pointing out...

And about madstone boots: You won't be able to cast spells as a bard, if madstoned, right? Melee bards still use them? I am playing a melee bard myself (don't have the boots). In the last Reaver I was asking myself if I should roll for them if someone puts them up for roll -- or even if I should put them for roll myself, if I get the boots...

Yeah, the epic spyglass at level 20. I believe it'll stack with persuasion but I can look that up during the grind.

As for the madstone boots, yeah the spell casting will note happen during a fight. I'll throw buffs, etc and get to whacking. Need a heal? Sorry. It'll be fine since a guildie is gonna be our healer anyhow.

In case I need to cast something, you can still put on defensive fighting to take the rage off right? If so I'll keep that hotbar'd.