Traps. make 'em scary.

[chyribdus]

I think the point of this was more to add some variety into the monotony of grinding out quests. When nothing ever changes in a quest, it gets really boring regardless of the amount of experience it gives. It has nothing to do with how many levels of rogue you have or if you are an assassin, mechanic, or thief acrobat. Personally, I'm a mechanic because I enjoy being primarily support fire. As such, I'm one of those people that can successfully disarm a trap rolling a 1. If a character is a "pure rogue", there is NO excuse for not being able to search for and disarm traps. I dont care what kind of build you are, its 3 points per level for search, disable, and spot. Considering that I get enough points per level that I can almost go into the few cross-class skills without losing out on other skills, I have no pity. If you only took 1-2 levels of rogue, odds are, it was specifically for trapping skills. Personally, I dont like the way the multi-classing works in this game. You can take 18 levels of wizard and 2 levels of rogue just to have as high of skills for traps or umd as a pure rogue. That being said, adding a few random traps to impede (not prevent) progress would make for a nice change of pace. I love the idea of having the boxes also in random locations from the floor to the ceiling for traps as well.

The other point of this wasnt so much to increase the damage of the traps but to change the animations or exactly how they trigger. If you hit a random spike trap thats set through a large portion of a long hall way but it didnt trigger until you were in the middle of it, you would be caught off guard. The point isnt to have the quests harder, but to have them have some variety within the same quest.

Another point that has been mentioned is the "need" for a "trap monkey" that this would present. It would only present this "need" on elite and only if a trap had no way to work around. I loved the idea of a teleport trap that would send the people that hit it to a completely different part of the dungeon that would eventually merge back to the main area. This could make it where the "need" for a rogue would only be to get the quest done more effeciently if the random trap is present. On the same note, random break away floors or possibly even falling debris to force you into an upper level and having to work your way down again would be interesting.

[DustTheWind]

Can't traps be crafted and randomly placed by users? I wonder if those types of traps could also end up showing up in dungeons?

[Falco_Easts]

A couple of other thoughts on this.

"Threshhold' traps. A single trap with multiple DC's for various results.
1-19 disable failure
20-29 partial disable. Trap effects might be less deadly. Trap bursts may slow down. Warning siren might not be as loud and alert less monsters. etc...
30-39 mostly disabled. As above but with greater affect. Slim % trap might fire at full effect at random time.
40+ trap fully disabled.

Auto search & spot.
If your Spot exceeds the DC by X and you perfom an automatic search check with no animation.

Have search & disable speed reduced depending on ranks. The higher the skill, the less time required to perform the function.

[Cyr]

I like randomly placed traps. I hate traps whose only purpose is to make the dungeon slower. That's not fun. It doesn't really add challenge, just pointless longer completion time...that would be like suggesting that it would be an awesome feature to add the bridge to nowhere that was a clever player joke on a fake addition to get to the shroud.

[Dendrix]

Indiana Jones. He has a few lvls of rogue to be sure. First and foremost however he is a proffessor, a scholar, probably using classes like scientist and doctor from modern D20 systems. He has at the most 4 lvls in rogue, more likely 2 though. And he was awesome with traps. Proof that evasion is worth 2 lvls to get for nearly anyone.

Indy only has rogue levels. Look at what he can do:
He deciphers scripts
He seals with traps.
He dodges very well.
He wears light or no armour
He has very good bluff
He has knowledge: history - as a rogue he has lots of skill points.

his build screams rogue

[Monkeytoe]

Another point that has been mentioned is the "need" for a "trap monkey" that this would present.

The Assassin and Acrobat PrE's have made rogues a very popular class among the dps-minded, I don't think there would be a problem finding a rogue for anything the way the game is right now. Finding a rogue that isn't morally above the hand-dirtying of actually disabling a trap... fifty-fifty? But it's as easy to find two rogues right now as it is to find one, especially considering how easy it is to for a character with a splash of rogue to keep rogue skills usefully high.

People who are afraid that "trap skills" might be *required* for a quest are kind of ...obtuse. Certain quests are easier with certain classes, a warforged hate tank in VoD for example... some people won't run that raid with anything else. But it isn't a requirement. Most parties want at least one healer and one caster for any quest... some groups absolutely must have a healer, for example, to complete a quest in the fashion they prefer. But people successfully run quests without healers or casters, if they are prepared or not concerned about xp. Same thing with rogues: even VoN 5 can be completed without a rogue if the monks have the reflex saves, the barb's have the hp and a couple of toons have rez clickies to get a healer back up on either side of the trap passages. Any reflex save a rogue can make, a monk can make. Any trap-damage a rogue can survive, a barbarian can survive. I don't see how that could ever change short of making rogues just plain immune to traps.

What I think rogues are looking for is more variety in traps, more things to do besides bash-monsters-to-win, not some kind of "our-way-or-die!" button. Not that THAT hasn't been a successful battle-whine in the past: its basically what the dps-monkeys used when they begged for a nerf to stat-damage weapons. But I digress.

I think rogues are looking for
...multiple paths to completion, like in The Sunken Sewer, for example
...optional chests like the Cabal chest
...optional encounters like Spies in The House
...cool and interesting effects like the boulder in Undermine, the grease-to-spikes trap in Tomb of The Forbidden, the fan trap in A Cry for Help
...point of no-return traps

2) One of the platforms has spike traps on it. The water is safe. Turning the valve will activate a spike trap around it. There is blood on the floor around the valve... ...the key is that a) there should be no single way that bypasses all traps, b) there should be a cue (visual, audible, mechanical) as to which trap is present, but you'll have to be on your toes to spot all of them c) proper trapping skills makes things easier

I liked the idea of a trapped valve that turns off another trap or opens a door, etc. That would allow a high save monk or a high hp barb to address the trap that is stopping the party without actually having to disable a trap. Even better if the valve or lever then resets on a timer unless the trap at the valve is disabled ]:>

That's an easy one. Simply make each trap sprung add one level of dungeon alert.
(Sorry, I just had to.)

Sprung traps could set off alarms, spawning monsters...

[Khanyth]

/signed

Make traps random in location, hard to find, and fatal if failed. A big explosion that wipes the party-fatal.

[Hendrik]

I like randomly placed traps. I hate traps whose only purpose is to make the dungeon slower. That's not fun. It doesn't really add challenge, just pointless longer completion time...that would be like suggesting that it would be an awesome feature to add the bridge to nowhere that was a clever player joke on a fake addition to get to the shroud.

Come on Cyr, we are only talking what, 10-12 seconds!, to wait for a trap to be spotted and disabled.

12 seconds. I can see how that is far to long to wait for a class skill to be utilized when racing to reach the end, but jeez, 12 seconds.

Isn't the whole point of a 'trap' to slow a party down in reaching that treasure room, the boss, or whatnot? Sorry to say, yes.

Since we can no longer have traps that are actually deadly and fearful, what can we or Turbine do?

[NUDS]

/signed

Make traps random in location, hard to find, and fatal if failed. A big explosion that wipes the party-fatal.

It's funny when the entire party crowds around the rogue when they are doing their rogue-stuff, then act surprised when the box blows up in their face :P

[Talon_Moonshadow]

One of the Necro III quests has a whole bunch of small traps that do not have to be disabled to complete the quest......yet seem to be placed at just the right spot to catch the majority of players.

Also has an optional chest with a trap that can be disabled.


Rainbow, has that button! That even when known about, warned of....every possible action taken to prevent people from stepping on it.....gets stepped on anyway. lol.

And an optional trapped chest.


Cabal has an option chest with a super high DC....just for Mechanics who like to show off.


These are good trap designs IMO.
They give a Rogue(trap monkey) a place, but do not make one required for completion.
And many of the traps are entertaining as well.