Traps. make 'em scary.

[Robai]

Make traps that improve the rate at which quests can be completed.

example

Teleportation Trap. This trap teleports the subject into a gauntlet of Mobs and Traps that will likely increase the time it takes to make it to the end of the quest by a significant amount of time.

Very good idea.
Yes, make it so that zerging would be FASTER with a rogue in group.

[Monkeytoe]

Very good idea.
Yes, make it so that zerging would be FASTER with a rogue in group.

GENIUS!

...Further reading: Moar Traps

[Sandheart]

Since everyone else is making requests I figured I'd make one:

Traps. make 'em scary.

So I have a wiz/rogue. I started my ddo career as a rogue only to find myself never doing much with traps as the players either knew exactly where they were so avoided them or they simply didn't pose enough of a threat to warrant waiting for me to make the silly-long search animation and take care of it.

My suggestion----------------

Make traps semi-random. This could be easily implemented. Place 30 trap locations and have the game roll to see which traps will be active. While writing code for NWN persistent worlds, I did this very easily. When the group/individual entered the quest the game would make 30 quick rolls d100. 75+ and that roll was counted and given a +1 integer.

After a set amount of integers were reached (for example I wanted 5 traps only then after five rolls of 75+ were reached the int. would read +5 and the script would stop.) This would mean occasionally there would be no traps other times a range of 1-5 but never more. Furthermore this could be tweaked for Hard/Elite set the integer to 10 Hard 20 elite.

(Optional Further still- after the roll has been counted have a secondary roll to determine which type of trap would be placed. Fire/Poison etc. Make one shoot goo like in the new adventure pack that slows you down while a jet of fire is cooking you so the player takes massive damage and can't run away)

All this could be achieved with as few as 10 lines of code (trust me I've done it already) Each trap could have the script attached to it and the designers could place the boxes in neat locations (the ceiling or other hard to reach places come to mind so long as they -could- be reached. Something I couldn't do in NWN) This, personally, would add a sense of adventure into the game. I couldn't zerg for the most part as I couldn't predict where the traps would be.

I know many will not like this idea. I am currently on life 5 of a completionist and I'm well aware how long this game can be at times, but I still feel this would be fun.

But...but then I might have to put points into spot! But I still agree.
/signed

[Velexia]

Since everyone else is making requests I figured I'd make one:

Traps. make 'em scary.

So I have a wiz/rogue. I started my ddo career as a rogue only to find myself never doing much with traps as the players either knew exactly where they were so avoided them or they simply didn't pose enough of a threat to warrant waiting for me to make the silly-long search animation and take care of it.

My suggestion----------------

Make traps semi-random. This could be easily implemented. Place 30 trap locations and have the game roll to see which traps will be active. While writing code for NWN persistent worlds, I did this very easily. When the group/individual entered the quest the game would make 30 quick rolls d100. 75+ and that roll was counted and given a +1 integer.

After a set amount of integers were reached (for example I wanted 5 traps only then after five rolls of 75+ were reached the int. would read +5 and the script would stop.) This would mean occasionally there would be no traps other times a range of 1-5 but never more. Furthermore this could be tweaked for Hard/Elite set the integer to 10 Hard 20 elite.

(Optional Further still- after the roll has been counted have a secondary roll to determine which type of trap would be placed. Fire/Poison etc. Make one shoot goo like in the new adventure pack that slows you down while a jet of fire is cooking you so the player takes massive damage and can't run away)

All this could be achieved with as few as 10 lines of code (trust me I've done it already) Each trap could have the script attached to it and the designers could place the boxes in neat locations (the ceiling or other hard to reach places come to mind so long as they -could- be reached. Something I couldn't do in NWN) This, personally, would add a sense of adventure into the game. I couldn't zerg for the most part as I couldn't predict where the traps would be.

I know many will not like this idea. I am currently on life 5 of a completionist and I'm well aware how long this game can be at times, but I still feel this would be fun.

So signed, this would prolong the game for me, for sure.

[Dendrix]

No.

because every group would need a rogue.

And that's just stupid and bad design. In so many ways.

[Ugumagre]

I would sign. What is happening now is:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=317097

[suszterpatt]

No.

because every group would need a rogue.

And that's just stupid and bad design. In so many ways.

That said, I support the OP in that traps should play a larger role in quests (particularly raids imo). However, it is entirely valid that some parties don't have rogues. So what I'd suggest is simply more optional objectives in quests that you need a rogue to get to (easily). Think of the chest with the acid pit in Rainbow in the Dark, but with actual extra XP or an easier bossfight, not just random loot.

Two other examples would be in Durk's: the single shot fire trap near the shrine, and the locked door at the end that hides an optional boss.

[Vanquishedfo]

in red

actually intel isnt devoted to one thing, that would be a knowledge skill as per PnP. anyone with higher then 24 int on thier character, has a character they cant even actually RP right because your character now has a mind more on par with Mr Fantastic or Iron Man from comics. Super intellect is a true super power and 24+ is that. So when I say my wizard with a 40 int is all knowing from an RP standpoint, he is.

We have a skill, that once you have access to it, gives you the right to persue the knowledge of how to disarm, and construct, traps. If Gambit( probably a pure rogue or close to it) and Iron Man both are called upon to deal with an ancient feat of engineering that is threatening to kill them all, whom would you trust to do it?

Another Example. Indiana Jones. He has a few lvls of rogue to be sure. First and foremost however he is a proffessor, a scholar, probably using classes like scientist and doctor from modern D20 systems. He has at the most 4 lvls in rogue, more likely 2 though. And he was awesome with traps. Proof that evasion is worth 2 lvls to get for nearly anyone.

[Syllph]

Great feedback.

So it seems the only major hurdle would be the players which say, "If it can't be done without a rogue, it's not fun." -Valid point.

If I had to wait around for BOTH a cleric and now a rogue it would pose a bit of a time problem. I would propose that the effects take place in Elite at the very least. While Hard and Normal remain static. Perhaps higher level quests Hard+Elite while normal stays static and the highest level quests Normal and above would use the new trap settings. I would actually have no traps on causal.

I'm not sure if this would create a balance to people looking for a challenge and the ones looking to keep spot at 0.

On the other hand there are several quests already that really are too much for most players without a rogue. Elite monastery and elite Gwylin's Stand come to mind.

[Ralmeth]

My two favorite traps in the game are the one in Weapon Shipment on the way to the optional...very cunning (I won't spoil it if someone hasn't done it), as well as the hidden pit/spike trap in Enter the Kobold (I have seen more than one person fall in, including myself the first time).

I think we need more interesting traps like these as opposed to the typical, overused pop up blades and such, even if they are semi-random.

[Vanquishedfo]

Some may think I am not a rogue supporter, I very much am, and would indeed love to see more traps. Just not a need for pure class BS which is always BAD imo.

One favored trap I loved in PnP was the reverse gravity trap. Non Lethal variation included when trying to get deeper down, them being place in ways that would send you back to the upper lvls. And would tpically have resetting magical traps or re animating undead, or self repairing constructs re lining the halls downwards once more.

More lethal variance is hurling upwards, being impaled upon spikes, and then slowly forced all the way down them.

Another good way would be underwater quests with traps. I have noticed those traps people seem more willing to hold back while rogues disarm them.

Finally Id actually like to see some quests where assassination rogue style is the TRUE objective to the point of making a boss with total immunity to all dmg other then sneak attack, but soft enough one good one from the right lvl rogue would end them. making some content actually being built around my idea of a rogues true pure class specialty Sneak Attack.

[Relenthe]

Go run epic chains. The traps in there are super awesome.

Also as another poster pointed out monastery of the scorpion, rainbow in the dark, and sins of attrition on elite both have super nasty (on elite) random trap locations

[Syllph]

Some may think I am not a rogue supporter, I very much am, and would indeed love to see more traps. Just not a need for pure class BS which is always BAD imo.

Yup agreed, I'm not shooting for increasing DCs to mean only a pure mechanic could do them, simply stating I want randomness and thrill as opposed to, "Hey everyone hug this wall the trap will miss you."

[wonkey]

I think this is a great idea, with the following implementation that I have suggested before:

Semi-random traps, as described by the OP, with areas of effect that cover eachothers work-arounds. Each would also have a way to work-around without a rogue.

Since that doesn't make sense on its own, let me explain with some examples.

Example 1:

You'd have a hallway. Either one of the following traps would be there (random choice).

1) a blade trap and spikes like the one in sacrifices on Korthos covers the left side of the hallway. It is too long to jump, but you can run around it to the right.
In order not to need a rogue, if you get close enough, the trap will activate before you are actually within the damage range.

2) an acid blast that shoots down the right side of the hallway. It too, is too long to jump past, but you can simply go down the left side.
In order not to need a rogue, there will be a visual cue of corroded spots on the walls and floor on the right side (or, of course, you can test for the spikes).


Example 2:

You have a series of platforms over a pool of water. At the far end of the water is a patch of dry land with a ladder leading upwards. There is a valve near the beginning of the pool, at the top level near where you would jump onto the first platform. You can get back to the starting point from the water via another ladder.

One of the following would be in place:

1) The ladder leading up from the water has acid sprays that will hit you as you climb. One of the platforms has a wind blast that will activate when you land on it, knocking you into the water, making the platforms unpassable. Turning the valve deactivates this blast.
You will hear wooshing when you are in this room, until the valve is pulled (both audible, and GM text).

2) One of the platforms has spike traps on it. The water is safe. Turning the valve will activate a spike trap around it. There is blood on the floor around the valve

3) Same as 1, except this time, the wind trap, and wooshing won't activate until you turn the valve (ie start off). However, the acid trap has been moved from the far ladder to the one leading back to the starting point. You can be blown off the platform and safely go on, but if you use the ladder to come back, you'll get roasted if you don't disable it.
Or you can not turn the valve and simply jump across the platforms or swim in the water as you choose.


Now, you can add more than 2-3 traps, or complex series of traps, but the key is that a) there should be no single way that bypasses all traps, b) there should be a cue (visual, audible, mechanical) as to which trap is present, but you'll have to be on your toes to spot all of them c) proper trapping skills makes things easier

[Feithlin]

My apologies I should have written the trapping-type rogues. Yes rogues are quite useful but the kind that specialize in traps are most definitely not.

Basically, you ask for all the game to change to make some gimped PrE useful? Sorry, no thanks. It just seems a better idea to make the PrE useful by giving it more capabilities.
Examples? Give the PrE bonuses to damage done with the traps they create, like +50%, +100% and +200%. Give the PrE the possibility to further increase the DC of the traps they create. High DC Glitterdust mines would be awesome. Give the PrE access to higher dps with Xbow, like being able to create bolts with grenade heads
Many traps are already quite deadly on elite. It's fine enough imo. DDO is a fast pace game. It would be a bad idea to make a class or an ability required to do any quest (it can be acceptable for some specific quest, but not for all of them). And no, clerics are not required to complete most quests.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Make them teleport you back the the entrance...that'll scare most players.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I've always wished that rogues were of more use. I know they're great DPS and all, but trap-disarming is the main reason why I made my rogue.

I also dislike the fact that the mechanic PrE doesnt have much to offer unless you're after the repeater proficiencies. People have already pointed out that a wizard/rogue split is probably as good, or better, than a rogue mechanic.

/signed

So you want to play a Rogue....to be useful for a few seconds in only 50-75% of the available content......and only if there is not another Rogue in the group with you?

[Aesop]

Make them teleport you back the the entrance...that'll scare most players.

I'd say teleport them to a place that is further away then the entrance but whose path leads to after the trap so that they don't have to repeatedly repeat the repeating trap

that way it takes them longer to complete the quest without the trap being disabled but doesn't make it impossible to get by and so that they have to run through new badness at the same time. (Note make those mobs in the trap section not count towards Slayer Bonus)

Aesop

[Talon_Moonshadow]

no its something about perspective, question a 1 level cleric 20 barbarian should turn undead more often than a 20 level cleric?

same happens here


---its not about rogues are important or not, afterall who needs a rogue, get your self a good cleric and pass the trap running most of our traps deal poor damage.

Actually....acoording to most players a Brb19/Clr1 turns undead about as good a Clr 20.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My apologies I should have written the trapping-type rogues. Yes rogues are quite useful but the kind that specialize in traps are most definitely not.

I made a Cleric who specialised in turning undead once. Kicked butt when fighting undead!

But I really hated doing any quest with Kobolds, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Ogres, Trolls, Giants, Devils, Demons, Humans, Halflings, Drow, Elves, Dwarves, Quori, Orcs, Mephits...
And any undead that wasn't turnable for some reason.