Casters are still ridiculously OP at all levels including epic

[ImFour20]

Fire, Ice, Acid, or Electric?

I've been leveling up a Fire Savant in hopes of making a toon to farm scrolls(with an eye on wizard kind). After talking about it in guild there is some debate about which is the best Savant for the job.

Just wanting to get a general consensus here with some specific details and facts. I've even heard the stories about how good PM is in epics for farming right now.

[shagath]

Fire, water, earth and air are all good for scroll farming. Fire is a bit limited though as some epics have fire immune monsters(echrono to name one). Water is best for single target nuking which you don't need if your aim is just to farm scrolls.

Earth or air I would say. Air is better imo as you will get aoe stun SLA(electric loop).

[Mindspat]

It was still taking me 2-3 hits to kill a SINGLE enemy.

Along comes a lvl 11 sorc (2 lvls below quest lvl, whereas I was 1 level ABOVE quest lvl). He is 1 shotting all the mobs with acid blast. Does it for the whole quest, never once ran out of mana.

Are you complaining that someone who knows how to play a caster properly was able to group with you?

[GotSomeQuestions]

Earth or air I would say. Air is better imo as you will get aoe stun SLA(electric loop).

Air is also really nice for scroll farming because you get knockdown immunity. But honestly, you'll probably only have 5 or 6 elemental damage spells in your final list, so it's not all that hard to swap from one savant to another. Earth to Air is basically just swapping Chain Lightning/Flesh to Stone, you can keep water or force or fire as your backup. You get all the SLAs free with the new enhancement line, that's most of your elemental damage anyway.

[Fenrisulven6]

Are you complaining that someone who knows how to play a caster properly was able to group with you?

No, he's saying the caster made the quest a joke.

All of you rushing through TR to get back to 20: whats the point if, when you finally complete your build, the only thing you need is autorun?

"Hey, lets all park at the entrance and let Fizban solo-complete for us... boy is that fun"

[KillEveryone]

No, he's saying the caster made the quest a joke.

All of you rushing through TR to get back to 20: whats the point if, when you finally complete your build, the only thing you need is autorun?

"Hey, lets all park at the entrance and let Fizban solo-complete for us... boy is that fun"

Well, if I built my caster to function like a Ferrari F1, I don't want my caster to function like a Chevy Cobolt.

Or, If I built my caster to function like a M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank, I don't want my caster to function like a BMP-1.

You get the idea.

If I went through all those TRs for my caster to perform a certain way, I should be able to reap the rewards of all that grind invested to get those spell DCs, spell pen, and anything else that comes with multiple TRs.

I still haven't seen any real proof from the OP. They did a speed run on a capped character in a quest several levels below that character and called it proof. I can do that on any class.

If you balance the game for the high performance characters, the ones that are "normal" will suffer.

[Mindspat]

No, he's saying the caster made the quest a joke.

All of you rushing through TR to get back to 20: whats the point if, when you finally complete your build, the only thing you need is autorun?

"Hey, lets all park at the entrance and let Fizban solo-complete for us... boy is that fun"

The message I get is that he thinks he's totally awesome-powerful but when someone out performed him he assumed the class is simply overpowered having nothing to do with individual player skill.

[Fenrisulven6]

The message I get is that he thinks he's totally awesome-powerful but when someone out performed him he assumed the class is simply overpowered having nothing to do with individual player skill.

No. Both of you are misunderstanding.

Try this:

If I went through all those TRs for my caster to perform a certain way, I should be able to reap the rewards of all that grind invested to get those spell DCs, spell pen, and anything else that comes with multiple TRs.

Okay, lets say you went through all that to get your caster to perform a certain way. You finally get your build set up for end-game.

Turbine intoduces the Psion class. But they fail to balance it. You are now grouping with level 20 psions that evaporate mobs before your first spell goes off. They one-shot the end boss from across the map, before you even see him.

Do you kinda feel like "all that grind invested to get those spell DCs, spell pen, and anything else that comes with multiple" TRs was a waste of time? I mean, you might as well park at the entrance and go change over the laundry.

Or maybe you're content with that? To grind rush grind rush only to have someone easy-button the game for you?

[Bodic]

Fire, Ice, Acid, or Electric?

I've been leveling up a Fire Savant in hopes of making a toon to farm scrolls(with an eye on wizard kind). After talking about it in guild there is some debate about which is the best Savant for the job.

Just wanting to get a general consensus here with some specific details and facts. I've even heard the stories about how good PM is in epics for farming right now.

Really its been dead over a month and you want ot bring this topic back up?

[ImFour20]

Really its been dead over a month and you want ot bring this topic back up?

im curious about it

is there a thread up already detailing this? i dont mind reading

[grodon9999]

Really its been dead over a month and you want ot bring this topic back up?

have casters spontaneously become NOT over-powered in the past month?

[Mithran]

A more recent problem that I've seen is that many casters (I've had three in the Party at the same time) don't or won't cast Haste, anymore.

I don't know if the logic is that their kill counts are proportionately higher compared to the melee builds if they don't and they get satisfaction from this or if they're saving their mana for yet another Lightning Ball, instead.

Regardless, I don't ask for Haste (maybe that's the real problem), but I do get annoyed if there are a Sorcerer, a Wizard, and a Bard in the Party and we'll go through a full run without the initial Haste ever being refreshed.

[KillEveryone]

Okay, lets say you went through all that to get your caster to perform a certain way. You finally get your build set up for end-game.

Turbine intoduces the Psion class. But they fail to balance it. You are now grouping with level 20 psions that evaporate mobs before your first spell goes off. They one-shot the end boss from across the map, before you even see him.

Do you kinda feel like "all that grind invested to get those spell DCs, spell pen, and anything else that comes with multiple" TRs was a waste of time? I mean, you might as well park at the entrance and go change over the laundry.

Or maybe you're content with that? To grind rush grind rush only to have someone easy-button the game for you?

I'll TR into a Psion and get those past life feats and if a psion is better than arcanes, I'll keep my multi-TR in that class.

You still missed the point though. You can't balance the game based upon someone that went and got all those past life feats because the first lifer will get screwed.

Are you really going to want to go through multiple TRs to get all the spell pen past life feats just to be able to get through spell resistance that is set so high because the game was balanced to the TRs, that a first lifer has no chance whatsoever to penetrate?

Are you really going to want to go through multiple TRs to get all the spell DC you can get just to be able to make a web, finger, or mass hold land because the DCs have been set so high that a first lifer has no chance whatsoever to land those DCs because the game got balanced to the TRs?

Is this how you really want the game set up?

Another thing to note is the OP wanted epic immunities put back on epic mobs. So we relegate the casters back to just being mass hold monkeys. I don't mind playing CC. I still CC when it is necessary but I'll also DC instant death when it is appropriate. I like being able to do both but if we have those epic immunities back, wizards will be mass hold monkeys again.

So, force a larg portion of players to play one way to make the OP happy or allow the arcane players to use their full spell list and make a larger portion of players happy. I'll take the larger portion of players being happy.

[adamkatt]

This thread still yet lives?!?!?!


Yes my sorc is down with OPP!!

[Fenrisulven6]

I'll TR into a Psion and get those past life feats and if a psion is better than arcanes, I'll keep my multi-TR in that class.

So wait, in my example, the Psion is unbalanced and basically god-mode.

You would be cool laying waste to the game in god-mode? Why bother?

You still missed the point though. You can't balance the game based upon someone that went and got all those past life feats because the first lifer will get screwed.

Agreed. You can't put that genie back in the bottle. But there's other power creep you can fix. TR'd sorcs were NOT gamebreaking before the last mod.

Sorry, but I wouldn't get too attached to your new builds - I smell a nerf coming. You might want to plan ahead for it.

[Fenrisulven6]

A more recent problem that I've seen is that many casters (I've had three in the Party at the same time) don't or won't cast Haste, anymore.

Why should they? Its quicker for them to just nuke everything. The melee's don't need haste to clean up the scraps.

[Cholera]

A more recent problem that I've seen is that many casters (I've had three in the Party at the same time) don't or won't cast Haste, anymore.

I don't know if the logic is that their kill counts are proportionately higher compared to the melee builds if they don't and they get satisfaction from this or if they're saving their mana for yet another Lightning Ball, instead.

Regardless, I don't ask for Haste (maybe that's the real problem), but I do get annoyed if there are a Sorcerer, a Wizard, and a Bard in the Party and we'll go through a full run without the initial Haste ever being refreshed.

Its not that we're not ignoring you, its just that we're concentrating on something else (killing everything that moves). Don't take it personally - when we remember (most of us, anyway) are happy to haste the melees. After all, its more fun to play when everyone is happy and nothin makes melees happier than melee crack.

A friendly request/reminder and most of us will say "oh sh*t, sorry, forgot" or something to that effect and then add that nifty little green icon to the upper right-hand corner of your screen. The only thing you want to keep in mind is if you sound annoyed when asking then it sounds like you think its something you're entitled to and that just annoys everyone.

[KillEveryone]

So wait, in my example, the Psion is unbalanced and basically god-mode.

You would be cool laying waste to the game in god-mode? Why bother?



Agreed. You can't put that genie back in the bottle. But there's other power creep you can fix. TR'd sorcs were NOT gamebreaking before the last mod.

Sorry, but I wouldn't get too attached to your new builds - I smell a nerf coming. You might want to plan ahead for it.

You never said anything about god-mode in your post about the Psion example.

God-mode is different than a well built character that has gone through many TRs.

My builds are able to roll with the changes. If I have to change a feat or two, fine. I can adapt because I don't go with flavor of the month. I build solid, consistent performers that can handle a wide variety of content, regardless of any challenge.

[Fenrisulven6]

You never said anything about god-mode in your post about the Psion example.

"level 20 psions that evaporate mobs before your first spell goes off. They one-shot the end boss from across the map, before you even see him."

[KillEveryone]

"level 20 psions that evaporate mobs before your first spell goes off. They one-shot the end boss from across the map, before you even see him."

Here is the thing though...

You put in a very far fetched example that anyone with any reasonable mind is going to discount it because it just isn't going to happen.