Madfloyd's TR idea

**Bunker** · 05-10-2011, 12:56 AM

Just going to remark once more. It's been said, by others and me:

xp penalties are a problem, not a solution.

-Bunk

**sirgog** · 05-10-2011, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Thucydides04

You will receive no argument from me. I think the system works fine and there many ways to go about capping a toon within the sytem. I can agree with others and say that the 4.387 mil xp cap is a bit high, especially after the 36 point build has been unlocked, however I have yet to see/here etc about an individual that failed to cap due to poor management of questing.

I understand what others want, which is an faster way to cap their toon with less work and more limts on what a player can do. I do not like the idea of limiting an individual in order to make the lives a few better.

It isn't that people fail to cap - it's that people that do quests at levels they are challenging (e.g. elite Vale at 15) find themselves at level 18, ~750k XP from cap, and with no first time XP available for any quests above level 12.

Had a guildie in this position. He then had to do the following for first time XP:

Elite ADQ1 (-75% overlevel penalty)
Elite Desert walkups (-99% overlevel penalty)
Casual Amrath flagging quests for first time XP (n/n/n/n/n/h/e mostly already done)
Vale slayer - to cap
Subteranne slayer - to 3000
Delerium and Acid Wit e/e/e/h/n (he'd missed those)
Stealer of Souls h/e

Having to do those quests (all but SoS stupidly easy at 19) were his punishment for running the other content in the game at the level that it is fun, rather than at a level where it is stupidly easy (like Vale normals at 17).

**Seikojin** · 05-10-2011, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Seikojin

I have a spreadsheet at home and will run the numbers when I am there.

This is gonna be ugly, but it has the info. Basically, if you do all the free content, plus necro 1, plus von, dq, gianthold, the vale (and shroud) and amrath, you can get to 20 in your second and third+lives. In both second and third life, you will be 18-19 after doing them all on nnnhe, once. This does not include any optionals or wilderness area exp. If you run any of the high end raids for gear, you will cap your character no matter what.

Code:

Quest Level **	Solo XP **	Normal XP **	Hard XP **	Elite XP **	Quest Name **		First times					Perfect First runs +.85 for c/n/h and +2.1 for elite					
-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	a	lvl	Casual	Norm	Hard	Elite		lvl	Casual	Norm	Hard	Elite	
1	0				Hall of the Mark	1	3011.25	4290	4618.75	5938.5		1	5570.8125	7936.5	8544.6875	12470.85	
1	132	220	232	244	The Cannith Crystal	2	8886.25	15066.25	16258.75	20934		2	16439.5625	27872.5625	30078.6875	43961.4	
1	156	260	276	292	The Storehouse's Secret	3	11252.5	21650	23262.5	29857.5		3	20817.125	40052.5	43035.625	62700.75	
1	419	699	759	819	The Collaborator	4	11051.25	24313.75	26021.25	33282		4	20444.8125	44980.4375	48139.3125	69892.2	
1	304				The Grotto	5	16858.75	40042.5	42700	55702.5		5	31188.6875	74078.625	78995	116975.25	
1	188	313	334	356	Heyton's Rest	6	7656.25	32975	35021.25	44503.5		6	14164.0625	61003.75	64789.3125	93457.35	
1	238	320	342	364	Necromancer's Doom	7	7172.5	50500	53662.5	68034		7	13269.125	93425	99275.625	142871.4	
1	324	540	584	628	Redemption quest	8	5068.75	65141.25	70712.5	89679		8	9377.1875	120511.3125	130818.125	188325.9	
1	324	540	584	628	Sacrifices	9	13060	62708.75	62597.5	78835.5		9	24161	116011.1875	115805.375	165554.55	
1	324	540	584	628	Stopping the Sahuagin	10	11498.75	64052.5	67506.25	84939		10	21272.6875	118497.125	124886.5625	178371.9	
2	173				Arachnophobia	11	30748.75	90023.75	94408.75	118578		11	56885.1875	166543.9375	174656.1875	249013.8	
2	168	298	316	334	Bringing the Light	12	27530	67535	69441.25	88612.5		12	50930.5	124939.75	128466.3125	186086.25	
2	500	906	980	1053	Durk's Got a Secret	13	17835	34202.5	35720	44571		13	32994.75	63274.625	66082	93599.1	
2	419	759	819	879	Garrison's Missing Pack	14	22131.25	71121.25	80405	100450.5		14	40942.8125	131574.3125	148749.25	210946.05	
2	204	364	388	412	Haverdasher	15	5737.5	20895	21750	27126		15	10614.375	38655.75	40237.5	56964.6	
2	540	980	1060	1140	Information is Key	16	6698.75	48788.75	50740	63169.5		16	12392.6875	90259.1875	93869	132655.95	
2	780	1420	1540	1660	Misery's Peak	17	5311.25	63408.75	66790	83641.5		17	9825.8125	117306.1875	123561.5	175647.15	
2	284	510	548	585	Missing in Action	18	5530	50387.5	52450	65145		18	10230.5	93216.875	97032.5	136804.5	
2	228	408	436	464	Protect Baudry's Interests	19	4300	60671.25	62798.75	77910		19	7955	112241.8125	116177.6875	163611	
2	476	862	932	1001	Recovering the Lost Tome	20	0	5997.5	6200	7683		20	0	11095.375	11470	16134.3	
2	348	628	676	724	Retrieve the Stolen Goods								 				
2	536	972	1052	1131	Stealthy Repossession												
2	204	364	388	412	Stop Hazadill's Shipment		Normal runs						Perfect runs +.60 for c/n/h/e				
2	684	1244	1348	1452	The Kobold's New Ringleader	lvl	Casual	Norm	Hard	Elite		lvl	Casual	Norm	Hard	Elite	
2	273				The Miller's Debt	1	2409	3432	3695	3959	3 t 12	1	3854.4	5491.2	5912	6334.4	
2	384	694	748	802	The Smuggler's Warehouse	2	7109	12053	13007	13956	13 t 30	2	11374.4	19284.8	20811.2	22329.6	
2	276	496	532	568	The Sunken Sewer	3	9002	17320	18610	19905	31 t 50	3	14403.2	27712	29776	31848	
2	632	1148	1244	1339	Walk the Butcher's Path	4	8841	19451	20817	22188	51 t 68	4	14145.6	31121.6	33307.2	35500.8	
3	220				An Explosive Situation	5	13487	32034	34160	37135	69 t 91	5	21579.2	51254.4	54656	59416	
3	270	580	620	660	Endgame: Marguerite	6	6125	26380	28017	29669	92 t 109	6	9800	42208	44827.2	47470.4	
3	429	772	828	884	First Strike	7	5738	40400	42930	45356	110 t 126	7	9180.8	64640	68688	72569.6								
3	182				Home Sweet Sewer	8	4055	52113	56570	59786	127 t 145	8	6488	83380.8	90512	95657.6								
3	611	1324	1426	1528	Kobold Assault	9	10448	50167	50078	52557	146 t 162	9	16716.8	80267.2	80124.8	84091.2					 			
3	347	748	802	856	Redfang the Unruled	10	9199	51242	54005	56626	163 t 178	10	14718.4	81987.2	86408	90601.6								
3	380	820	880	940	Setting the Wards: The Lower Cathedral	11	24599	72019	75527	79052	179 t 195	11	39358.4	115230.4	120843.2	126483.2								
3	424	916	984	1052	Setting the Wards: The Patriarchs' Crypt	12	22024	54028	55553	59075	196 t 206	12	35238.4	86444.8	88884.8	94520								
3	402	868	932	996	The Captives	13	14268	27362	28576	29714	207 t 213	13	22828.8	43779.2	45721.6	47542.4								
3	632	1140	1226	1313	The Cloven-jaw Scourge: Blockade	14	17705	56897	64324	66967	214 t 222	14	28328	91035.2	102918.4	107147.2								
3	493	1068	1148	1229	The Crypt of Gerard Dryden	15	4590	16716	17400	18084	223 t 225	15	7344	26745.6	27840	28934.4								
3	240	516	550	585	The Friar's Niece	16	5359	39031	40592	42113	226 t 230	16	8574.4	62449.6	64947.2	67380.8								
3	456	820	880	940	The Hobgoblins' Captives	17	4249	50727	53432	55761	231 t 236	17	6798.4	81163.2	85491.2	89217.6								
3	588	1060	1140	1220	The Kobold's Den: Clan Gnashtooth	18	4424	40310	41960	43430	237 t 244	18	7078.4	64496	67136	69488								
3	746	1348	1452	1556	The Kobold's Den: Rescuing Arlos	19	3440	48537	50239	51940	245 t 254	19	5504	77659.2	80382.4	83104								
3	380	820	880	940	The Old Archives	20	0	4798	4960	5122	255	20	0	7676.8	7936	8195.2		1522693						
3	689	1244	1339	1434	The Sacred Helm																			
3	622	1348	1452	1556	The Swiped Signet	Best quests doing n/n/n/h/e						full value doing n/n/n/h/e/c + first bonus + perfect run							rank this will take you to					
3	460	996	1070	1145	To Find a Witness: Return to the Sanctuary	lvl	exp	name			row#	total	math to get full value						1st life		2nd life		3rd life	
3	431	932	1001	1071	Where There's Smoke...	1	3675	The collaborator			6	7429.15	1293.15	1118.4	1404.15	1719.9	775.15	7429.15	6 (lvl2)		6	lvl to 2	6	
4	444	793	846	900	Come Out and Slay	2	7460	Misery's Peak			19	14949	2627	2272	2849	3486	1443	22378.15	11 (lvl3)		11		10	
4	444	793	846	900	Dirty Laundry	2	6532	The Kobold's New Ringleader			26	13090.6	2301.4	1990.4	2493.8	3049.2	1265.4	35468.75	13 (lvl3)		12		12	
4	42	104	112	120	Endgame: The Archbishop's Fate	2	6027	Walk the Butcher's Path			30	12079.9	2123.8	1836.8	2301.4	2811.9	1169.2	47548.65	15 (lvl3)	lvl up to 2	14		14	
4	446	1001	1070	1140	Freshen the Air	3	5540	WW: part 1			44	11111.8	1961	1696	2109	2562	1087.8	58660.45	17 (lvl4)		16	lvl to 3	15	
4	698	1504	1612	1720	Irestone Inlet	3	7052	WW: part 2			45	14141.3	2493.8	2156.8	2686.2	3267.6	1380.1	72801.75	18 (lvl4)	lvl up to 3	17		16	
4	1202	2596	2788	2980	Proof is in the Poison	4	9383	WW: part 3			65	18824.55	3326.3	2876.8	3568.65	4326	1850	91626.3	21 (lvl5)		19		18	
4	444	793	846	900	Repossession	4	4622	WW: part 4			66	9276.55	1642.8	1420.8	1755.65	2118.9	917.6	100902.85	22 (lvl5)	lvl up to 4	20		19	
4	482	1036	1108	1180	Rest for the Restless	4	13556	proof is in the poison			56	26749.3	4802.6	4153.6	5157.8	6258	2223.7	127652.15	24 (lvl5)	lvl up to 5	22		21	
4	444	793	846	900	Stand Your Ground	5	7070	necro 1: tomb of burnind heart			87	12784.5	2516	2176	2682.5	3234	0	140436.65	26 (lvl6)		23		22	
4	540	966	1033	1100	The Bookbinder Rescue	5	8092	necro 1: tomb of crimson heart			88	14633.2	2878.6	2489.6	3071	3704.4	0	155069.85	27 (lvl6) 		25		23	
4	1039	1867	2004	2140	The Cloven-jaw Scourge: The Caverns of Shaagh	5	8092	necro 1: tomb of immortal heart			89	14633.2	2878.6	2489.6	3071	3704.4	0	169703.05	28 (lvl6)		26		24	
4	374	802	856	910	The Depths of Darkness	5	8092	necro 1: tomb of sanguine heart			90	14633.2	2878.6	2489.6	3071	3704.4	0	184336.25	29 (lvl6)	lvl up to 6	27		25	
4	302	645	687	729	The Depths of Despair	6	27020	necro 1: the bloody crypt			102	48857	9620	8320	10249	12348	0	233193.25	33 (lvl7)		30		28	
4	444	793	846	900	The Stormreaver Fresco	6	10796	redwillow's ruins			99	21320.5	3848	3328	4092.2	4922.4	1801.9	254513.75	34 (lvl7)	lvl up to 7	31		29	
4	1000	1798	1929	2060	Venn's Trail: Clan Tunnelworm	7	20420	Gwylan's stand			112	36912	7289	6304	7733	9282	0	291425.75	37 (lvl8)		33		31	
4	496	888	949	1009	Venn's Trail: Venn's Fate	7	40340	The Pit			123	72924	14393	12448	15281	18354	0	364349.75	41 (lvl9)		37		34	
4		1209	1294	1380	Whisperdoom's Spawn	7	20420	The Tear of Dhakan			125	36912	7289	6304	7733	9282	0	401261.75	43 (lvl9)		38		35	
4		1070	1145	1220	Yarkuch's War-plans	8	18804	Stormcleave outpost			133	37786	6726.6	5817.6	7111.4	8509.2	3803.6	439047.75	45 (lvl9)	lvl up to 8	40		37	
5	1724	2340	2500	3513	A Small Problem	8	23380	Xorian Cipher			140	42253	8362	7232	8843	10584	0	481300.75	47 (lvl10)		42		38	
5	362	772	820	868	Archer Point Defense	8	10356	von1: thrashak arena			135	18713.6	3707.4	3206.4	3914.6	4678.8	0	500014.35	48 (lvl10)		42		39	
5	478	1024	1090	1156	Brood of Flame	8	16340	von2: prison of the mind			131	29529	5846	5056	6179	7392	0	529543.35	50 (lvl10)		43		40	
5	976	1220	1300	1380	Ghost of a Chance	9	3723	von3: gateway to khyber			148	6723.8	1339.4	1158.4	1402.3	1665.3	0	536267.15	50 (lvl10)	lvl up to 9	44		40	
5	309	548	580	612	Guard Duty	9	45140	von3: jungle of khyber			157	81564	16169	13984	17057	20370	0	617831.15	53 (lvl11)	lvl up to 10	47		42	
5	1120	2004	2140	2276	Halls of Shan-To-Kor	9	25896	von4: haywire foundry			149	46794.6	9242.6	7993.6	9930.8	11634	0	664625.75	56 (lvl12)		48		44	
5	684	1220	1300	1380	Legend of Two-Toed Tobias	10	59299	von5: vault of the night (raidpt1)			178	107127.9	21275	18400	22385	26667.9	0	771753.65	60 (lvl12)	lvl up to 11	51		47	
5	1230	2200	2350	2500	Partycrashers	10	10299	von6: plane of the night (raidpt2)			167	18602.9	3700	3200	3885	4617.9	0	790356.55	61 (lvl13)		52		47	
5	517	921	980	1038	Prove Your Worth	10	33426	Tempest Spine (raid)			172	60384.85	11995.4	10374.4	12615.15	15025.5	0	850741.4	63 (lvl13)		54		48	
5	496	884	940	996	The Chamber of Insanity	11	27279	An offering of blood (DQpreflag)			179	48792	9805	8480	9805	12222	0	899533.4	65 (lvl13)	lvl up to 12	55		50	
5		846	900	953	The Deadly Package: Agent of the Darguul	12	22964	Chains of Flame (DQpreflag)			198	41470.4	8265.8	7148.8	8650.6	10256.4	0	941003.8	67 (lvl14)		56		50	
5		1369	1460	1550	The Deadly Package: The Stronghold Key	12	32897	Chamber of Raiyum (Dqpreflag)			203	59409.95	11838.15	10238.4	12395	14700	0	1000413.75	69 (lvl14)	lvl up to 13	58		52	
5	401	856	910	964	The Depths of Discord	12	32900	Against the demon queen (DQflag)			197	66186	11840	10240	12395	14700	6771	1066599.75	71 (lvl15)		59		53	
5	362	772	820	868	The Depths of Doom	12	26420	Zawabis revenge (DQraid)			206	47712	9509	8224	9953	11802	0	1114311.75	73 (lvl15)		61		54	
5	498	996	1060	1124	The Lair of Summoning	12	22097	Invaders!			202	44455.95	7953.15	6878.4	8325	9870	4551	1158767.7	74 (lvl15)	lvl up to 14	62		55	
5	812	1742	1860	1977	The Mystery of Delera's Tomb	12	28296	Relic of a soverign past			196	56080.95	10543.15	9118.4	9187.1	13089.3	5024.6	1214848.65	76 (lvl16)	lvl up to 16	63		56	
5	1152	2060	2200	2340	The Snitch	13	15868	A cabal for one			207	31930.85	5720.2	4947.2	5971.8	7064.4	3280.05	1246779.5	634372	offset	64		57	
5	1058	1892	2020	2148	The Stones Run Red	13	26111	A cry for help			208	52540.1	9409.1	8137.6	9829.05	11634	5392.75	1299319.6	1891824	1257452	65		58	
5		1360	1450	1540	Tomb of the Burning Heart	13	24606	Feast or famine			209	49513.4	8867.05	7668.8	9262.95	10962	5083.8	1348833			66		59	
5		1556	1660	1764	Tomb of the Crimson Heart	13	20990	Fountain of discord			210	42236.4	7564.65	6542.4	7901.35	9349.2	4336.4	1391069.4			67		60	
5		1556	1660	1764	Tomb of the Immortal Heart	13	12704	Mired in Kobolds			211	22939.25	4580.6	3961.6	4780.4	5653.2	1.85	1414008.65			67		60	
5		1556	1660	1764	Tomb of the Sanguine Heart	13	18580	Maze of Madness			212	37388.6	6697	5792	6993	8274	3840.6	1451397.25			68		61	
5	1308	2340	2500	2660	Under the Big Top	13	21517	Tiral by fire			213	43292.15	7781.1	6729.6	8127.05	9462.6	4462.2	1494689.4			69		61	
6	386	820	868	916	Caged Trolls	14	34948	Gianthold tor			217	63500.8	11758.6	10169.6	14393	17010	0	1558190.2			70		63	
6	386	650	686	723	Dead Predators	14	35742	Madstone crater			219	71933.65	12892.65	11150.4	13445.8	15890.7	7403.7	1630123.85			72		64	
6		1220	1294	1369	Doom of the Witch-doctor: The Way to Zulkash	14	50820	The Crucible			220	102004.2	15503	13408	23273	27510	8902.2	1732128.05			74		65	
6		1290	1369	1448	Doom of the Witch-doctor: Zulkash, Herald of Woe	14	28820	The prison of planes			221	56538.6	10397	8992	10841	12810	4506.6	1788666.65	not doing reavers		75		66	
6	764	1630	1732	1834	Gladewatch Outpost Defense	14	33540	The reavers fate			222	60554	12099	10464	12617	14910	0	1849220.65	77 (lvl16)	1257452	76		67	
6	429	760	804	848	Mirra's Sleepless Nights	15	21164	Delerium			223	42603.7	7644.2	6611.2	7955	9382.8	4399.3	1891824.35	79 (lvl16)	1300055.7	77		68	
6	306	650	686	723	Purge the Heretics	15	19688	Acid wit			224	39632	7111.4	6150.4	7400	8727.6	4092.2	1931456.35	80 (lvl16)	1339687.7	77		68	
6	974	2080	2212	2344	Redwillow's Ruins	16	34630	Let Sleeping dust lie			226	62507.25	12517.1	10825.6	13011.05	15327.9	0	1993963.6	82 (lvl17)	1402194.95	78		69	
6	0	0	0	0	Return to Delera's Tomb (Quest)	16	43164	Rainbow in the dark			227	77911.65	15601.05	13492.8	16217.1	19107.9	0	2071875.25	84 (lvl17)	1480106.6	80		70	
6	680	1360	1444	1528	Ruined Halls	16	38045	Ritual Sacrafice			228	68671.75	13751.05	11892.8	14293.1	16842	0	2140547	86 (lvl18)	1548778.35	81		71	
6		5200	5540	5880	The Bloody Crypt	16	36335	Running with the devils			229	65585	13133.15	11358.4	13651.15	16083.9	0	2206132	88 (lvl18)	1614363.35	82		72	
6	610	1300	1380	1460	The Bounty Hunter	16	47624	The coalessence chamber			230	95877.55	17205	14880	17922.8	21075.6	9914.15	2302009.55	91 (lvl19)	1710240.9	84		74	
6		4240	4516	4792	The Chronoscope	17	59020	The Shroud (raid)			236	106522	21349	18464	22163	26082	0	2408531.55	93 (lvl19)	1816762.9	85		75	
6	545	1090	1150	1222	The Forgotten Caverns	19	17660	The weapons shipment			253	31866	6401	5536	6623	7770	0	2440397.55	shroud finish to 20		86		75	
6	295	520	548	576	The Iron Mines: Freeing Achka	19	11844	Wrath of the flame			254	21370.9	4293.85	3713.6	4441.85	5208	0	2461768.45			86		76	
6		880	932	984	The Iron Mines: Justice for Grust	19	46832	A new invasion			245	84508.2	16968.2	14675.2	17567.6	20622	0	2546276.65			87		77	
6		1090	1156	1222	The Troglodytes' Get	19	26240	bastion of power			246	47349	9509	8224	9842	11550	0	2593625.65			88		77	
6	750	1600	1700	1800	Valak's Mausoleum ( aka Dead Girl's Spellbook )	19	46260	genesis point 			248	83476	16761	14496	17353	20370	0	2677101.65			89		78	
7		1540	1630	1720	Bargain of Blood	19	36536	Sins of attrition			252	65928.6	13238.6	11449.6	13704.8	16086	0	2743030.25		 	90		79	
7		2148	2276	2404	Free Delera	20	59700	Tower of Despair			256	107720	21645	18720	22385	26250	0	2850750.25			92		80	
7		3940	4180	4420	Gwylan's Stand		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	2850750.25			3139250 needed			
7		1390	1471	1552	Old Grey Garl		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	2850750.25			288500	missing		
7		1828	1936	2044	Storm the Beaches		0				237	75615	15170	13120	15725	18480	0	2926365.25			93		81	
7	830	1660	1868	1972	Taming the Flames		0				238	75615	15170	13120	15725	18480	0	3001980.25			94		82	
7	978	1732	1834	1936	The Black Loch		0				239	35268.9	7078.1	6121.6	7333.4	8614.2	0	3037249.15			94		82	
7	1140	2020	2140	2260	The Graverobber		0				240	35268.9	7078.1	6121.6	7333.4	8614.2	0	3072518.05			95		83	
7		1220	1290	1360	The Grey Moon's Den: Extermination		0				241	38257.5	7677.5	6640	7955	9345	0	3110775.55			95		84	
7		1380	1460	1540	The Grey Moon's Den: The Trollish Scourge		0				242	38842.8	7644.2	6611.2	8265.8	9710.4	0	3149618.35			96 - cap		84	
7		612	644	676	The Last Move: The Way to Yarkuch		0				243	35268.9	7078.1	6121.6	7333.4	8614.2	0	3184887.25					84	
7		1252	1324	1396	The Last Move: Yarkuch's Last Stand		0				244	38257.5	7677.5	6640	7955	9345	0	3223144.75					85	
7	2140	4558	4837	5116	The Missing Party		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	3223144.75						
7		7780	8260	8740	The Pit		0				142	34801.2	6978.2	6035.2	7377.8	8374.8	0	3257945.95					85	
7	650	1380	1460	1540	The Scoundrel's Run		0				143	38568	7733	6688	8177	9282	0	3296513.95					85	
7		3940	4180	4420	The Tear of Dhakaan		0				144	34801.2	6978.2	6035.2	7377.8	8374.8	0	3331315.15					86	
7		2020	2140	2260	The Tide Turns		0				145	27267.6	5468.6	4729.6	5779.4	6560.4	0	3358582.75					86	
8		2140	2260	2380	Caverns of Korromar		0				162	78203	15503	13408	16354	19530	0	3436785.75					87	
8		2038	2152	2266	Faithful Departed		0				192	45552	9065	7840	9509	11298	0	3482337.75					87	
8	1672	2956	3124	3292	Haunted Library		0				193	43319.4	8621	7456	9042.8	10743.6	0	3525657.15					88	
8		780	820	860	In Need of Supplies		0				194	67878	13505	11680	14171	16842	0	3593535.15					89	
8		3160	3340	3520	Prison of the Mind		0				195	38854.2	7733	6688	8110.4	9634.8	0	3632389.35					89	
8		3568	3772	3976	Spies in the House		0				204	63310.95	12615.15	10910.4	13209	15666	0	3695700.3					89	
8	2056	3636	3844	4052	Stormcleave Outpost		0				214	49475.4	9886.4	8550.4	10308.2	12180	0	3745175.7					90	
8		2752	2908	3064	Stromvauld's Mine		0				215	49475.4	9886.4	8550.4	10308.2	12180	0	3794651.1					90	
8		2004	2116	2228	Tharashk Arena		0				216	59701.8	11928.8	10316.8	12439.4	14700	0	3854352.9					91	
8	327	689	724	758	The Path to Madness		0				218	54588.6	10907.6	9433.6	11373.8	13440	0	3908941.5					91	
8		1410	2990	3330	The Rescue		0				225	80838	16169	13984	16835	19866	0	3989779.5					92	
8		1426	1504	1582	The Temple Outpost: Captives of the Cult		0				231	62419.3	11729	10144	13608.6	16793.7	0	4052198.8					93	
8		1732	1828	1924	The Temple Outpost: The Libram of the Six		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
8		4520	4780	5040	The Xorian Cipher		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
8		4622	4888	5154	Thrall of the Necromancer		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
8		3772	3988	4204	Tomb of the Shadow Guard		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
8		4180	4420	4660	Tomb of the Shadow King		0			 		0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
8		3772	3988	4204	Tomb of the Shadow Knight		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
8		2956	3124	3292	Tomb of the Shadow Lord		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9		2260	2380	2500	Entering the Gate Chamber		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9	2263	3988	2380	2500	Fathom the Depths		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9		724	758	793	Gateway to Khyber		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9		4996	5368	5540	Haywire Foundry		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9	2508	4420	4641	4862	Into the Deep		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9	1012	1779	1873	1966	The Church and the Cult		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9	1590	2860	2950	3164	The Claw of Vulkoor		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9		1936	2038	2140	The Fane of the Six: Cleansing the Temple		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9		2044	2152	2260	The Fane of the Six: Fall of the Prelate		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9	264	460	480	500	The Giant Lieutenants		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9	243	424	442	460	The Giants' Lair		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9		8740	9220	9700	The Jungle of Khyber		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9	1284	2260	2373	2486	The Keeper's Sanctuary		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9	1284	2260	2373	2486	The Last Stand		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9		916			The Library of Threnal		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9		1720	1810	1900	The Missing Expedition		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
9		8380	8840	9300	The Shadow Crypt		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10	2200	3900	4100	4299	Bring Me the Head of Ghola-Fan!		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10	2702	5699	5993	6288	Escort the Expedition		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10		2760	2900	3040	Hiding in Plain Sight		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10		784	820	855	Hold for Reinforcements		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10		2000	2100	2199	Plane of Night		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10		2380	3300	3460	Reclamation		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10	1022	2152	2260	2368	Secure the Area		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10	2220	3900	4100	4299	Slavers of the Shrieking Mines		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10		3140	3300	3460	Sykros' Jewel		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10		6484	6819	7155	Tempest Spine		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10	779	1367	1433	1500	The Chamber of Rahmat		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10		620			The Gate Chamber		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10	276	480	500	520	The Giants' Supplies		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10		2038	2140	2242	The Sanctum: Church of the Fury		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10		2038	2140	2242	The Sanctum: Quench the Flames		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
10		11500	12100	12699	Vault of Night		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11	3024	5300	5559	5820	An Offering of Blood		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11		3700	3876	4060	And the Dead Shall Rise		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11		2980	3123	3268	Desert Caravan		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11		4180	4384	4588	Dreams of Insanity		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11		1300	1360	1420	From Beyond the Grave		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11	1838	3220	3375	3532	Made to Order		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11	1808	3166	3320	3473	Maraud the Mines		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11	1428	2500	2620	2740	Purge the Fallen Shrine		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11	1200	2100	2199	2300	Raid the Vulkoorim		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11	820	1433	1500	1567	The Chamber of Kourush		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11	3024	5300	5560	5820	The Enemy Within		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11	2112	3700	3880	4060	The Spawn of Whisperdoom		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11		12100	12699	13300	The Twilight Forge		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11	2796	4900	5140	5380	Tomb of the Blighted		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11		4660	4888	5116	Tomb of the Forbidden		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11	4164	7300	7660	8020	Tomb of the Tormented		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
11	2385	4180	4384	4588	Tomb of the Unhallowed		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
12	2716	5699	4966	6233	A Relic of a Sovereign Past		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
12	3660	6400	6700	7000	Against the Demon Queen		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
12	2556	4468	4676	4884	Chains of Flame		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
12	2100	3669	3839	4010	Diplomatic Impunity		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
12	2652	4636	4852	5068	Eyes of Stone		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
12	2220	3879	4060	4240	Frame Work		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
12	2460	4299	4500	4700	Invaders!		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
12	3660	6399	6700	7000	The Chamber of Raiyum		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
12		6819	7140	7460	The Cursed Crypt		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
12		2620	2740	2860	The Titan Awakes		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
12		5140	5380	5620	Zawabi's Revenge		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
13	1773	3092	3228	3364	A Cabal for One		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
13	2915	5086	5313	5540	A Cry for Help		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
13	2748	4793	5007	5220	Feast or Famine		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
13	2344	4089	4271	4452	Foundation of Discord		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
13		2476	2584	2692	Mired in Kobolds		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
13	2076	3620	3780	3940	The Maze of Madness		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
13	2412	4206	4393	4506	Trial by Fire		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
14	3069	5344	5572	5800	Desecrated Temple of Vol		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
14		5344	5572	5800	Flesh Maker's Laboratory		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
14		6448	6724	7000	Ghosts of Perdition		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
14		6356	7780	8100	Gianthold Tor		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
14	3386	5896	6148	6400	Inferno of the Damned		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
14	4002	6969	7268	7567	Madstone Crater		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
14	4812	8380	12580	13100	The Crucible		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
14	2436	5620	5860	6100	The Prison of the Planes		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
14		6540	6820	7100	The Reaver's Fate		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
15	2378	4132	4300	4468	Acid Wit		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
15	2212	3844	4000	4156	Delirium		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
15		8740	9100	9460	Litany of the Dead		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
16		6766	7033	7299	Let Sleeping Dust Lie		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
16		8433	8766	9099	Rainbow in the Dark		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
16		7433	7726	8020	Ritual Sacrifice		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
16		7099	7379	7659	Running with the Devils		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
16	5359	9300	9688	10036	The Coalescence Chamber		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
17		6340	7356	7997	Ascension Chamber		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
17	4249	8835	9172	9508	Enter the Kobold		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
17		8420	8740	9060	Monastery of the Scorpion		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
17		6340	6580	6820	Prey on the Hunter		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	4052198.8						
17		9252	9604	9956	Stealer of Souls																			
17		11540	11980	12420	The Shroud																			
18		8200	8500	8800	Hound of Xoriat																			
18		8200	8500	8800	A Vision of Destruction																			
18		3826	3964	4102	Dream Conspiracy																			
18	2212	3826	3964	4102	Finding the Path																			
18		4150	4300	4450	I Dream of Jeets
18		4132	4468	4624	In the Demon's Den
18	2212	3826	3964	4102	The Mindsunder
18		4150	4300	4450	The Shipwrecked Spy
19		9172	9496	9820	A New Invasion
19		5140	5320	5500	Bastion of Power
19		4300	4450	4600	Eye of the Titan
19		9060	9380	9700	Genesis Point
19		3964	4102	4240	Mining for Ancient Secrets
19	3440				Raiding the Giants' Vault
19		3964	4102	4240	Reclaiming Memories
19		7156	7408	7660	Sins of Attrition
19		3460	3580	3700	The Weapons Shipment
19		2321	2401	2480	Wrath of the Flame
20		4798	4960	5122	The Dreaming Dark
20		11700	12100	12500	Tower of Despair

**Nospheratus** · 05-10-2011, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by blkcat1028

Doesn't it get boring running the same 30 (?) quests over and over? I really don't understand. There's nearly 90 quests in the game and you only run 30? Why?

Your numbers are absolutely wrong!

We have over 250 quests in the game and NO ONE runs 30 quests to cap! Even the ones that aim for the fastest most efficient TRs don't do that!

Originally Posted by mystafyi

The simplest solution is just keep adding moar high end content and allowing level 19's into epics. I would advocate for just allowing TR's into epics, but dislike excluding anyone.

I agree here!
The only thing is that I wouldn't restrict epic content to TRs. Perhaps allow epic quests entry to level 19+ TR1s or 18+ for TR2s. I'm not absolutely sure about this, but if it was to be that non-capped toons were allowed into epics I'd prefer it like that.

**Palantyr** · 05-10-2011, 08:09 AM

I'd play throught 2nd or higher TR's on elite only, althought I'm not sure I'd really enjoy as much. Seems to me like the processs would come to follow even more of formula, ie, two rogue levels for every life and increased lesser heart sales.

If XP were lowered back down to 1.9m with elite only and quests still followed the degenerating XP curve of 1st time elite bonus, no penalty twice, -10% thereafter, tr'ing would become a complete joke. I you could finish lives so fast it'd be hard to remember what class you were playing. Completionist in a month, 34 lives in 3 or less. As it stands now, with the exception of some traps on a build without evasion or rogue, elite isn't that much different from running hard or normal with a twinked out TR. There's a fair amount of quests that are already commonly farmed on elite setting when TR'ing. With that thought in mind, bring on the change. I don't really see how they could lower xp and keep the same repetition penalties in place even with an elite only policy in place.

A change that strikes me as more interesting challenge for a second or higher TR would be require every quest in game be done elite, raids included, to reattain level 20. Although that would probably be impossible to mesh with the current leveling system, not mention to adventure pack model of business.

**Dendrix** · 05-10-2011, 08:34 AM

I'm sorry but Elite only is a monumentally stupid idea.

It restricts grouping with others.

It REQUIRES a rogue as elite traps will 1 shot you in most cases. And such required grouping is bad.

**Truga** · 05-10-2011, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Palantyr

Completionist in a month, 34 lives in 3 or less.

Sorry, but this is not possible. It takes at minimum 3 months (12 weeks) to reach completionist.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Dendrix

I'm sorry but Elite only is a monumentally stupid idea.

It restricts grouping with others.

It REQUIRES a rogue as elite traps will 1 shot you in most cases. And such required grouping is bad.

But everyone keeps saying traps are a joke!

**Aeolwind** · 05-10-2011, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Seikojin

This is gonna be ugly, but it has the info. Basically, if you do all the free content, plus necro 1, plus von, dq, gianthold, the vale (and shroud) and amrath, you can get to 20 in your second and third+lives. In both second and third life, you will be 18-19 after doing them all on nnnhe, once. This does not include any optionals or wilderness area exp. If you run any of the high end raids for gear, you will cap your character no matter what.

Code:

Quest Level **	Solo XP **	Normal XP **	Hard XP **	Elite XP **	Quest Name **		First times					Perfect First runs +.85 for c/n/h and +2.1 for elite					
-1	-1	-1	-1	-1	a	lvl	Casual	Norm	Hard	Elite		lvl	Casual	Norm	Hard	Elite	
1	0				Hall of the Mark	1	3011.25	4290	4618.75	5938.5		1	5570.8125	7936.5	8544.6875	12470.85	
1	132	220	232	244	The Cannith Crystal	2	8886.25	15066.25	16258.75	20934		2	16439.5625	27872.5625	30078.6875	43961.4	
1	156	260	276	292	The Storehouse's Secret	3	11252.5	21650	23262.5	29857.5		3	20817.125	40052.5	43035.625	62700.75	
1	419	699	759	819	The Collaborator	4	11051.25	24313.75	26021.25	33282		4	20444.8125	44980.4375	48139.3125	69892.2	
1	304				The Grotto	5	16858.75	40042.5	42700	55702.5		5	31188.6875	74078.625	78995	116975.25	
1	188	313	334	356	Heyton's Rest	6	7656.25	32975	35021.25	44503.5		6	14164.0625	61003.75	64789.3125	93457.35	
1	238	320	342	364	Necromancer's Doom	7	7172.5	50500	53662.5	68034		7	13269.125	93425	99275.625	142871.4	
1	324	540	584	628	Redemption quest	8	5068.75	65141.25	70712.5	89679		8	9377.1875	120511.3125	130818.125	188325.9	
1	324	540	584	628	Sacrifices	9	13060	62708.75	62597.5	78835.5		9	24161	116011.1875	115805.375	165554.55	
1	324	540	584	628	Stopping the Sahuagin	10	11498.75	64052.5	67506.25	84939		10	21272.6875	118497.125	124886.5625	178371.9	
2	173				Arachnophobia	11	30748.75	90023.75	94408.75	118578		11	56885.1875	166543.9375	174656.1875	249013.8	
2	168	298	316	334	Bringing the Light	12	27530	67535	69441.25	88612.5		12	50930.5	124939.75	128466.3125	186086.25	
2	500	906	980	1053	Durk's Got a Secret	13	17835	34202.5	35720	44571		13	32994.75	63274.625	66082	93599.1	
2	419	759	819	879	Garrison's Missing Pack	14	22131.25	71121.25	80405	100450.5		14	40942.8125	131574.3125	148749.25	210946.05	
2	204	364	388	412	Haverdasher	15	5737.5	20895	21750	27126		15	10614.375	38655.75	40237.5	56964.6	
2	540	980	1060	1140	Information is Key	16	6698.75	48788.75	50740	63169.5		16	12392.6875	90259.1875	93869	132655.95	
2	780	1420	1540	1660	Misery's Peak	17	5311.25	63408.75	66790	83641.5		17	9825.8125	117306.1875	123561.5	175647.15	
2	284	510	548	585	Missing in Action	18	5530	50387.5	52450	65145		18	10230.5	93216.875	97032.5	136804.5	
2	228	408	436	464	Protect Baudry's Interests	19	4300	60671.25	62798.75	77910		19	7955	112241.8125	116177.6875	163611	
2	476	862	932	1001	Recovering the Lost Tome	20	0	5997.5	6200	7683		20	0	11095.375	11470	16134.3	
2	348	628	676	724	Retrieve the Stolen Goods								 				
2	536	972	1052	1131	Stealthy Repossession												
2	204	364	388	412	Stop Hazadill's Shipment		Normal runs						Perfect runs +.60 for c/n/h/e				
2	684	1244	1348	1452	The Kobold's New Ringleader	lvl	Casual	Norm	Hard	Elite		lvl	Casual	Norm	Hard	Elite	
2	273				The Miller's Debt	1	2409	3432	3695	3959	3 t 12	1	3854.4	5491.2	5912	6334.4	
2	384	694	748	802	The Smuggler's Warehouse	2	7109	12053	13007	13956	13 t 30	2	11374.4	19284.8	20811.2	22329.6	
2	276	496	532	568	The Sunken Sewer	3	9002	17320	18610	19905	31 t 50	3	14403.2	27712	29776	31848	
2	632	1148	1244	1339	Walk the Butcher's Path	4	8841	19451	20817	22188	51 t 68	4	14145.6	31121.6	33307.2	35500.8	
3	220				An Explosive Situation	5	13487	32034	34160	37135	69 t 91	5	21579.2	51254.4	54656	59416	
3	270	580	620	660	Endgame: Marguerite	6	6125	26380	28017	29669	92 t 109	6	9800	42208	44827.2	47470.4	
3	429	772	828	884	First Strike	7	5738	40400	42930	45356	110 t 126	7	9180.8	64640	68688	72569.6								
3	182				Home Sweet Sewer	8	4055	52113	56570	59786	127 t 145	8	6488	83380.8	90512	95657.6								
3	611	1324	1426	1528	Kobold Assault	9	10448	50167	50078	52557	146 t 162	9	16716.8	80267.2	80124.8	84091.2					 			
3	347	748	802	856	Redfang the Unruled	10	9199	51242	54005	56626	163 t 178	10	14718.4	81987.2	86408	90601.6								
3	380	820	880	940	Setting the Wards: The Lower Cathedral	11	24599	72019	75527	79052	179 t 195	11	39358.4	115230.4	120843.2	126483.2								
3	424	916	984	1052	Setting the Wards: The Patriarchs' Crypt	12	22024	54028	55553	59075	196 t 206	12	35238.4	86444.8	88884.8	94520								
3	402	868	932	996	The Captives	13	14268	27362	28576	29714	207 t 213	13	22828.8	43779.2	45721.6	47542.4								
3	632	1140	1226	1313	The Cloven-jaw Scourge: Blockade	14	17705	56897	64324	66967	214 t 222	14	28328	91035.2	102918.4	107147.2								
3	493	1068	1148	1229	The Crypt of Gerard Dryden	15	4590	16716	17400	18084	223 t 225	15	7344	26745.6	27840	28934.4								
3	240	516	550	585	The Friar's Niece	16	5359	39031	40592	42113	226 t 230	16	8574.4	62449.6	64947.2	67380.8								
3	456	820	880	940	The Hobgoblins' Captives	17	4249	50727	53432	55761	231 t 236	17	6798.4	81163.2	85491.2	89217.6								
3	588	1060	1140	1220	The Kobold's Den: Clan Gnashtooth	18	4424	40310	41960	43430	237 t 244	18	7078.4	64496	67136	69488								
3	746	1348	1452	1556	The Kobold's Den: Rescuing Arlos	19	3440	48537	50239	51940	245 t 254	19	5504	77659.2	80382.4	83104								
3	380	820	880	940	The Old Archives	20	0	4798	4960	5122	255	20	0	7676.8	7936	8195.2		1522693						
3	689	1244	1339	1434	The Sacred Helm																			
3	622	1348	1452	1556	The Swiped Signet	Best quests doing n/n/n/h/e						full value doing n/n/n/h/e/c + first bonus + perfect run							rank this will take you to					
3	460	996	1070	1145	To Find a Witness: Return to the Sanctuary	lvl	exp	name			row#	total	math to get full value						1st life		2nd life		3rd life	
3	431	932	1001	1071	Where There's Smoke...	1	3675	The collaborator			6	7429.15	1293.15	1118.4	1404.15	1719.9	775.15	7429.15	6 (lvl2)		6	lvl to 2	6	
4	444	793	846	900	Come Out and Slay	2	7460	Misery's Peak			19	14949	2627	2272	2849	3486	1443	22378.15	11 (lvl3)		11		10	
4	444	793	846	900	Dirty Laundry	2	6532	The Kobold's New Ringleader			26	13090.6	2301.4	1990.4	2493.8	3049.2	1265.4	35468.75	13 (lvl3)		12		12	
4	42	104	112	120	Endgame: The Archbishop's Fate	2	6027	Walk the Butcher's Path			30	12079.9	2123.8	1836.8	2301.4	2811.9	1169.2	47548.65	15 (lvl3)	lvl up to 2	14		14	
4	446	1001	1070	1140	Freshen the Air	3	5540	WW: part 1			44	11111.8	1961	1696	2109	2562	1087.8	58660.45	17 (lvl4)		16	lvl to 3	15	
4	698	1504	1612	1720	Irestone Inlet	3	7052	WW: part 2			45	14141.3	2493.8	2156.8	2686.2	3267.6	1380.1	72801.75	18 (lvl4)	lvl up to 3	17		16	
4	1202	2596	2788	2980	Proof is in the Poison	4	9383	WW: part 3			65	18824.55	3326.3	2876.8	3568.65	4326	1850	91626.3	21 (lvl5)		19		18	
4	444	793	846	900	Repossession	4	4622	WW: part 4			66	9276.55	1642.8	1420.8	1755.65	2118.9	917.6	100902.85	22 (lvl5)	lvl up to 4	20		19	
4	482	1036	1108	1180	Rest for the Restless	4	13556	proof is in the poison			56	26749.3	4802.6	4153.6	5157.8	6258	2223.7	127652.15	24 (lvl5)	lvl up to 5	22		21	
4	444	793	846	900	Stand Your Ground	5	7070	necro 1: tomb of burnind heart			87	12784.5	2516	2176	2682.5	3234	0	140436.65	26 (lvl6)		23		22	
4	540	966	1033	1100	The Bookbinder Rescue	5	8092	necro 1: tomb of crimson heart			88	14633.2	2878.6	2489.6	3071	3704.4	0	155069.85	27 (lvl6) 		25		23	
4	1039	1867	2004	2140	The Cloven-jaw Scourge: The Caverns of Shaagh	5	8092	necro 1: tomb of immortal heart			89	14633.2	2878.6	2489.6	3071	3704.4	0	169703.05	28 (lvl6)		26		24	
4	374	802	856	910	The Depths of Darkness	5	8092	necro 1: tomb of sanguine heart			90	14633.2	2878.6	2489.6	3071	3704.4	0	184336.25	29 (lvl6)	lvl up to 6	27		25	
4	302	645	687	729	The Depths of Despair	6	27020	necro 1: the bloody crypt			102	48857	9620	8320	10249	12348	0	233193.25	33 (lvl7)		30		28	
4	444	793	846	900	The Stormreaver Fresco	6	10796	redwillow's ruins			99	21320.5	3848	3328	4092.2	4922.4	1801.9	254513.75	34 (lvl7)	lvl up to 7	31		29	
4	1000	1798	1929	2060	Venn's Trail: Clan Tunnelworm	7	20420	Gwylan's stand			112	36912	7289	6304	7733	9282	0	291425.75	37 (lvl8)		33		31	
4	496	888	949	1009	Venn's Trail: Venn's Fate	7	40340	The Pit			123	72924	14393	12448	15281	18354	0	364349.75	41 (lvl9)		37		34	
4		1209	1294	1380	Whisperdoom's Spawn	7	20420	The Tear of Dhakan			125	36912	7289	6304	7733	9282	0	401261.75	43 (lvl9)		38		35	
4		1070	1145	1220	Yarkuch's War-plans	8	18804	Stormcleave outpost			133	37786	6726.6	5817.6	7111.4	8509.2	3803.6	439047.75	45 (lvl9)	lvl up to 8	40		37	
5	1724	2340	2500	3513	A Small Problem	8	23380	Xorian Cipher			140	42253	8362	7232	8843	10584	0	481300.75	47 (lvl10)		42		38	
5	362	772	820	868	Archer Point Defense	8	10356	von1: thrashak arena			135	18713.6	3707.4	3206.4	3914.6	4678.8	0	500014.35	48 (lvl10)		42		39	
5	478	1024	1090	1156	Brood of Flame	8	16340	von2: prison of the mind			131	29529	5846	5056	6179	7392	0	529543.35	50 (lvl10)		43		40	
5	976	1220	1300	1380	Ghost of a Chance	9	3723	von3: gateway to khyber			148	6723.8	1339.4	1158.4	1402.3	1665.3	0	536267.15	50 (lvl10)	lvl up to 9	44		40	
5	309	548	580	612	Guard Duty	9	45140	von3: jungle of khyber			157	81564	16169	13984	17057	20370	0	617831.15	53 (lvl11)	lvl up to 10	47		42	
5	1120	2004	2140	2276	Halls of Shan-To-Kor	9	25896	von4: haywire foundry			149	46794.6	9242.6	7993.6	9930.8	11634	0	664625.75	56 (lvl12)		48		44	
5	684	1220	1300	1380	Legend of Two-Toed Tobias	10	59299	von5: vault of the night (raidpt1)			178	107127.9	21275	18400	22385	26667.9	0	771753.65	60 (lvl12)	lvl up to 11	51		47	
5	1230	2200	2350	2500	Partycrashers	10	10299	von6: plane of the night (raidpt2)			167	18602.9	3700	3200	3885	4617.9	0	790356.55	61 (lvl13)		52		47	
5	517	921	980	1038	Prove Your Worth	10	33426	Tempest Spine (raid)			172	60384.85	11995.4	10374.4	12615.15	15025.5	0	850741.4	63 (lvl13)		54		48	
5	496	884	940	996	The Chamber of Insanity	11	27279	An offering of blood (DQpreflag)			179	48792	9805	8480	9805	12222	0	899533.4	65 (lvl13)	lvl up to 12	55		50	
5		846	900	953	The Deadly Package: Agent of the Darguul	12	22964	Chains of Flame (DQpreflag)			198	41470.4	8265.8	7148.8	8650.6	10256.4	0	941003.8	67 (lvl14)		56		50	
5		1369	1460	1550	The Deadly Package: The Stronghold Key	12	32897	Chamber of Raiyum (Dqpreflag)			203	59409.95	11838.15	10238.4	12395	14700	0	1000413.75	69 (lvl14)	lvl up to 13	58		52	
5	401	856	910	964	The Depths of Discord	12	32900	Against the demon queen (DQflag)			197	66186	11840	10240	12395	14700	6771	1066599.75	71 (lvl15)		59		53	
5	362	772	820	868	The Depths of Doom	12	26420	Zawabis revenge (DQraid)			206	47712	9509	8224	9953	11802	0	1114311.75	73 (lvl15)		61		54	
5	498	996	1060	1124	The Lair of Summoning	12	22097	Invaders!			202	44455.95	7953.15	6878.4	8325	9870	4551	1158767.7	74 (lvl15)	lvl up to 14	62		55	
5	812	1742	1860	1977	The Mystery of Delera's Tomb	12	28296	Relic of a soverign past			196	56080.95	10543.15	9118.4	9187.1	13089.3	5024.6	1214848.65	76 (lvl16)	lvl up to 16	63		56	
5	1152	2060	2200	2340	The Snitch	13	15868	A cabal for one			207	31930.85	5720.2	4947.2	5971.8	7064.4	3280.05	1246779.5	634372	offset	64		57	
5	1058	1892	2020	2148	The Stones Run Red	13	26111	A cry for help			208	52540.1	9409.1	8137.6	9829.05	11634	5392.75	1299319.6	1891824	1257452	65		58	
5		1360	1450	1540	Tomb of the Burning Heart	13	24606	Feast or famine			209	49513.4	8867.05	7668.8	9262.95	10962	5083.8	1348833			66		59	
5		1556	1660	1764	Tomb of the Crimson Heart	13	20990	Fountain of discord			210	42236.4	7564.65	6542.4	7901.35	9349.2	4336.4	1391069.4			67		60	
5		1556	1660	1764	Tomb of the Immortal Heart	13	12704	Mired in Kobolds			211	22939.25	4580.6	3961.6	4780.4	5653.2	1.85	1414008.65			67		60	
5		1556	1660	1764	Tomb of the Sanguine Heart	13	18580	Maze of Madness			212	37388.6	6697	5792	6993	8274	3840.6	1451397.25			68		61	
5	1308	2340	2500	2660	Under the Big Top	13	21517	Tiral by fire			213	43292.15	7781.1	6729.6	8127.05	9462.6	4462.2	1494689.4			69		61	
6	386	820	868	916	Caged Trolls	14	34948	Gianthold tor			217	63500.8	11758.6	10169.6	14393	17010	0	1558190.2			70		63	
6	386	650	686	723	Dead Predators	14	35742	Madstone crater			219	71933.65	12892.65	11150.4	13445.8	15890.7	7403.7	1630123.85			72		64	
6		1220	1294	1369	Doom of the Witch-doctor: The Way to Zulkash	14	50820	The Crucible			220	102004.2	15503	13408	23273	27510	8902.2	1732128.05			74		65	
6		1290	1369	1448	Doom of the Witch-doctor: Zulkash, Herald of Woe	14	28820	The prison of planes			221	56538.6	10397	8992	10841	12810	4506.6	1788666.65	not doing reavers		75		66	
6	764	1630	1732	1834	Gladewatch Outpost Defense	14	33540	The reavers fate			222	60554	12099	10464	12617	14910	0	1849220.65	77 (lvl16)	1257452	76		67	
6	429	760	804	848	Mirra's Sleepless Nights	15	21164	Delerium			223	42603.7	7644.2	6611.2	7955	9382.8	4399.3	1891824.35	79 (lvl16)	1300055.7	77		68	
6	306	650	686	723	Purge the Heretics	15	19688	Acid wit			224	39632	7111.4	6150.4	7400	8727.6	4092.2	1931456.35	80 (lvl16)	1339687.7	77		68	
6	974	2080	2212	2344	Redwillow's Ruins	16	34630	Let Sleeping dust lie			226	62507.25	12517.1	10825.6	13011.05	15327.9	0	1993963.6	82 (lvl17)	1402194.95	78		69	
6	0	0	0	0	Return to Delera's Tomb (Quest)	16	43164	Rainbow in the dark			227	77911.65	15601.05	13492.8	16217.1	19107.9	0	2071875.25	84 (lvl17)	1480106.6	80		70	
6	680	1360	1444	1528	Ruined Halls	16	38045	Ritual Sacrafice			228	68671.75	13751.05	11892.8	14293.1	16842	0	2140547	86 (lvl18)	1548778.35	81		71	
6		5200	5540	5880	The Bloody Crypt	16	36335	Running with the devils			229	65585	13133.15	11358.4	13651.15	16083.9	0	2206132	88 (lvl18)	1614363.35	82		72	
6	610	1300	1380	1460	The Bounty Hunter	16	47624	The coalessence chamber			230	95877.55	17205	14880	17922.8	21075.6	9914.15	2302009.55	91 (lvl19)	1710240.9	84		74	
6		4240	4516	4792	The Chronoscope	17	59020	The Shroud (raid)			236	106522	21349	18464	22163	26082	0	2408531.55	93 (lvl19)	1816762.9	85		75	
6	545	1090	1150	1222	The Forgotten Caverns	19	17660	The weapons shipment			253	31866	6401	5536	6623	7770	0	2440397.55	shroud finish to 20		86		75	
6	295	520	548	576	The Iron Mines: Freeing Achka	19	11844	Wrath of the flame			254	21370.9	4293.85	3713.6	4441.85	5208	0	2461768.45			86		76	
6		880	932	984	The Iron Mines: Justice for Grust	19	46832	A new invasion			245	84508.2	16968.2	14675.2	17567.6	20622	0	2546276.65			87		77	
6		1090	1156	1222	The Troglodytes' Get	19	26240	bastion of power			246	47349	9509	8224	9842	11550	0	2593625.65			88		77	
6	750	1600	1700	1800	Valak's Mausoleum ( aka Dead Girl's Spellbook )	19	46260	genesis point 			248	83476	16761	14496	17353	20370	0	2677101.65			89		78	
7		1540	1630	1720	Bargain of Blood	19	36536	Sins of attrition			252	65928.6	13238.6	11449.6	13704.8	16086	0	2743030.25		 	90		79	
7		2148	2276	2404	Free Delera	20	59700	Tower of Despair			256	107720	21645	18720	22385	26250	0	2850750.25			92		80	
7		3940	4180	4420	Gwylan's Stand		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	2850750.25			3139250 needed			
7		1390	1471	1552	Old Grey Garl		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	2850750.25			288500	missing		
7		1828	1936	2044	Storm the Beaches		0				237	75615	15170	13120	15725	18480	0	2926365.25			93		81	
7	830	1660	1868	1972	Taming the Flames		0				238	75615	15170	13120	15725	18480	0	3001980.25			94		82	
7	978	1732	1834	1936	The Black Loch		0				239	35268.9	7078.1	6121.6	7333.4	8614.2	0	3037249.15			94		82	
7	1140	2020	2140	2260	The Graverobber		0				240	35268.9	7078.1	6121.6	7333.4	8614.2	0	3072518.05			95		83	
7		1220	1290	1360	The Grey Moon's Den: Extermination		0				241	38257.5	7677.5	6640	7955	9345	0	3110775.55			95		84	
7		1380	1460	1540	The Grey Moon's Den: The Trollish Scourge		0				242	38842.8	7644.2	6611.2	8265.8	9710.4	0	3149618.35			96 - cap		84	
7		612	644	676	The Last Move: The Way to Yarkuch		0				243	35268.9	7078.1	6121.6	7333.4	8614.2	0	3184887.25					84	
7		1252	1324	1396	The Last Move: Yarkuch's Last Stand		0				244	38257.5	7677.5	6640	7955	9345	0	3223144.75					85	
7	2140	4558	4837	5116	The Missing Party		0					0	0	0	0	0	0	3223144.75						
7		7780	8260	8740	The Pit		0				142	34801.2	6978.2	6035.2	7377.8	8374.8	0	3257945.95					85	
7	650	1380	1460	1540	The Scoundrel's Run		0				143	38568	7733	6688	8177	9282	0	3296513.95					85	
7		3940	4180	4420	The Tear of Dhakaan		0				144	34801.2	6978.2	6035.2	7377.8	8374.8	0	3331315.15					86	
7		2020	2140	2260	The Tide Turns		0				145	27267.6	5468.6	4729.6	5779.4	6560.4	0	3358582.75					86	
8		2140	2260	2380	Caverns of Korromar		0				162	78203	15503	13408	16354	19530	0	3436785.75					87	
8		2038	2152	2266	Faithful Departed		0				192	45552	9065	7840	9509	11298	0	3482337.75					87	
8	1672	2956	3124	3292	Haunted Library		0				193	43319.4	8621	7456	9042.8	10743.6	0	3525657.15					88	
8		780	820	860	In Need of Supplies		0				194	67878	13505	11680	14171	16842	0	3593535.15					89	
8		3160	3340	3520	Prison of the Mind		0				195	38854.2	7733	6688	8110.4	9634.8	0	3632389.35					89	
8		3568	3772	3976	Spies in the House		0				204	63310.95	12615.15	10910.4	13209	15666	0	3695700.3					89	
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17		9252	9604	9956	Stealer of Souls																			
17		11540	11980	12420	The Shroud																			
18		8200	8500	8800	Hound of Xoriat																			
18		8200	8500	8800	A Vision of Destruction																			
18		3826	3964	4102	Dream Conspiracy																			
18	2212	3826	3964	4102	Finding the Path																			
18		4150	4300	4450	I Dream of Jeets
18		4132	4468	4624	In the Demon's Den
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18		4150	4300	4450	The Shipwrecked Spy
19		9172	9496	9820	A New Invasion
19		5140	5320	5500	Bastion of Power
19		4300	4450	4600	Eye of the Titan
19		9060	9380	9700	Genesis Point
19		3964	4102	4240	Mining for Ancient Secrets
19	3440				Raiding the Giants' Vault
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19		3460	3580	3700	The Weapons Shipment
19		2321	2401	2480	Wrath of the Flame
20		4798	4960	5122	The Dreaming Dark
20		11700	12100	12500	Tower of Despair

Would you be willing to share this sheet? Formatting is kinda hosed on the forum.

**Thucydides04** · 05-10-2011, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by sirgog

It isn't that people fail to cap - it's that people that do quests at levels they are challenging (e.g. elite Vale at 15) find themselves at level 18, ~750k XP from cap, and with no first time XP available for any quests above level 12.

Had a guildie in this position. He then had to do the following for first time XP:

Elite ADQ1 (-75% overlevel penalty)
Elite Desert walkups (-99% overlevel penalty)
Casual Amrath flagging quests for first time XP (n/n/n/n/n/h/e mostly already done)
Vale slayer - to cap
Subteranne slayer - to 3000
Delerium and Acid Wit e/e/e/h/n (he'd missed those)
Stealer of Souls h/e

Having to do those quests (all but SoS stupidly easy at 19) were his punishment for running the other content in the game at the level that it is fun, rather than at a level where it is stupidly easy (like Vale normals at 17).

Proper planning prevents poor performance.

If your guildie decided it would be a good idea to do vale quests on elite at level 15, then that is his fault. He was still able to cap. There is plenty of xp to make up for mismanaged questing, it might suck to obtain it, but it is there. It sounds to me like people want their cake and get to eat it too.

There are numerous ways to get to 20 quickly and efficiently if you desire to do so. There are also ways to flowersniff to 20 and hit all of the content without much repetition. Making the content "more challenging" is just a ruse that powergamers use when their intent is "Make it seem like its more challenging, yet in reality it will be much easier for me." If these changes were made I could cap a TR2 in 1 day if I had a good static group. A casual gamer will never see Gianthold because of their inability to consistently complete content on elite difficulty.

But hey from a selfish perspective /signed. Give me the easy. I look forward to TRing all of my toons in 2 weeks LOL. Turbine will sell a lot of hearts of wood to me!

**fluffybunnywilson** · 05-10-2011, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Thucydides04

Proper planning prevents poor performance.

If your guildie decided it would be a good idea to do vale quests on elite at level 15, then that is his fault.

Aren't you one of the people who said that Turbine shouldn't force people to play a certain way (i.e. only on Elite)? How is this any different? It's forcing people to play a certain way (i.e. don't go into quests at level or below level because you'll need that XP later) already.

This proposal does not ADD a play style requirement. It CHANGES an existing play style requirement.

**karl_k0ch** · 05-10-2011, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Thucydides04

Proper planning prevents poor performance.

I think the main point (of the post you quoted) is not the lack of planning part. The main point is: If you want to TR multiple times, you'd better run only quests at, or better yet, below level.

Choosing a "let's see if I am good enough for content which is designed for characters 2 or 3 levels above me" approach will not be rewarded. This is a pity, imho.

**The_Phenx** · 05-10-2011, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by karl_k0ch

Choosing a "let's see if I am good enough for content which is designed for characters 2 or 3 levels above me" approach will not be rewarded. This is a pity, imho.

That was my point earlier... shrug.

**Cyr** · 05-10-2011, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Thucydides04

Proper planning prevents poor performance.

If your guildie decided it would be a good idea to do vale quests on elite at level 15, then that is his fault.!

Yup, that is what happens when a player ignores the incentive structure setup for a system. The entire problem with the TR system was summed up fairly well by your response here. A player challenged themselves and instead of getting rewarded for it they got punished for it.

An xp penalty system (that equated out to the same number of normal quests runs as the current system or dramatically less elite runs) would solve this as would an xp bonus system that did the same thing except by keeping the current TR xp to cap.

No one should ever be rewarded more for doing something easier. That is the nature of the complaints about the TR system and the root of all of it's problems lie in Turbine's overall screwed up incentive structure for xp. Even a rather slow run of an elite quest above your level should net you better xp/min then a fast run of a normal quest below your level.

**Seikojin** · 05-10-2011, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Aeolwind

Would you be willing to share this sheet? Formatting is kinda hosed on the forum.

Sure, sure

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...thkey=CNjcxpgL

Regarding the double tr thing; I would quit the game before doing that amount of reptition per character. Also they were over level for over half of the quests they ran. Most of the exp stuff they used were to nullify the level penalty and repetition penalty. What they are saying is if you are overpowered, a quest is easy. I agree. It sure can be. But that is true everywhere.

I again don't think tr's need to worry. With the points you earn in your first life, you can buy the packs to tr over and over again. You just won't be epic geared.

**Thrudh** · 05-10-2011, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Thucydides04

Proper planning prevents poor performance.

Look, all I'm saying is that having to plan carefully is not fun...

I have guildies who were running Vale... My guy was 15 and a double-TR... I couldn't afford to run with them... I had to save that exp for 17-20... I'm locked into running Gianthold and Orchard at 15...

Once you get past 12 on a double TR, you have to constantly plan it out...

That's not fun for some of us... especially us semi-casual players who don't play the same character 7 days in a row at break-neck speed... My TRs take 3-6 months to cap because I'm playing 5 different characters... I have multiple TRs running at the same time... Having to remember what quests they've done and what difficulty is a pain.

If your guildie decided it would be a good idea to do vale quests on elite at level 15, then that is his fault.

See, that's ****... We CANNOT take on a challenge, or we're screwing ourselves later... What you do is the EASY button... You never challenge your TR... It's all about speed in leveling.

There has to be a way where those of who want to try a quest that poses a challenge aren't penalized... The super-fast TR power-gamers are pure EASY button players.

**Thrudh** · 05-10-2011, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by karl_k0ch

I think the main point (of the post you quoted) is not the lack of planning part. The main point is: If you want to TR multiple times, you'd better run only quests at, or better yet, below level.

Choosing a "let's see if I am good enough for content which is designed for characters 2 or 3 levels above me" approach will not be rewarded. This is a pity, imho.

This. +1

**Thrudh** · 05-10-2011, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cyr

No one should ever be rewarded more for doing something easier. That is the nature of the complaints about the TR system and the root of all of it's problems lie in Turbine's overall screwed up incentive structure for xp. Even a rather slow run of an elite quest above your level should net you better xp/min then a fast run of a normal quest below your level.

And THIS!

No one should ever be rewarded more for doing something easier. That's my main complaint...

Let's go with extra bonuses whenever a TR runs a quest above his level... Then the EASY button players can continue to run NNNNNHE on quests below their level, and those of us who want to push our characters a little can still get enough xp to cap easily even if we go into Vale at 15 (the horror!)

**maddmatt70** · 05-10-2011, 12:56 PM

Without having read the 10+ pages I just have one comment which has probably already been made and that is gamers will game. I like the concept of the OP's proposal the problem is people will figure out the elite quests that give the most xp, but do not represent significant threats/takes about the same amount of time to complete on elite as normal. A great example of this is Shadow Crypt. There is not a huge difference between normal and elite shadow crypt for spellcasters so you know people will be farming that one even harder then they will now. Perhaps people will not be hitting up monestary elite, but instead they will choose others quests to farm instead. All of this will take less time to cap trs then it does presently (assuming xp is always 1.9 mil for trs) probably about half the time it does now which is good or bad depending on your perspective. Turbine will have to work on correctly balancing a ton of elite quests regardless if it did this. I like the proposal, but feel this propsal would have worked better at the get go instead of a year or two later then when True Reincarnation was introduced.

**aax** · 05-10-2011, 01:02 PM

only if non-vip have to do normal+hard first. non-vip shouldnt be able to open elite without unlocking it or payiing for it first.

i think non-vip just want this to be able to open on harder and grind for tp faster/easier.

**Cyr** · 05-10-2011, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by aax

i think non-vip just want this to be able to open on harder and grind for tp faster/easier.

If the opening on elite (or hard on TR1) was restricted to TR's for non-VIP's that would be a truly horrible way of grinding out TP.

You can read some of the existing threads on the efficient ways of grinding out TP, but in essence it involves making a veteran toon, zerging out elite content with an elite opener in party (generally an alt on another account), and then deleting the toon and doing it over again.

Thread: Madfloyd's TR idea

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