Leveling Archmage with no SLA?

[lppmor]

I would like to start a new Archmage, and I thought about how to level him to 20 (playing solo).

The first thing coming to mind is of course a force mage with all force SLAs. I believe the general idea here is to take Maximize and Empower very soon to make good use of Magic Missiles and later Chain Missiles, with some Arcane Bolts to cover the cooldown gaps. However, having Maximize/Empower turned on makes all other spells other than the SLAs hard to cast, due to sp issues. This means that I would have to basically only use SLAs, with very few well placed spells to kill groups, bosses, etc.

But how about instead of going the force mage path, just take Archmage for the sp boost and use normal spells all the time, avoiding the SLAs at all? I mean, a Maximized/Empowered Magic Missile deals on avarege 56 damage, in addition to consuming some of your maximum sp and also making all other spells way more expensive. On the other hand, a simple Scorching Ray at lvl 11+ deals around 60 damage with no metamagic, cost only 8 sp, and also has a faster cooldown. In the same way, SLA Chain Missiles decreases your max sp, has a large cooldown, and also requires metamagic to be turned on; so why not just cast a normal Acid Blast, no metamagic, for probably even more damage, only 15 sp, and lower cooldown?

What I'm trying to say is: You guys believe playing as Archmage with no SLA, just enjoying the larger sp pool and turning metamagic on only in a few situations, is a good choice now after Update 9 changes?

[Jaid314]

you do realise there are types of archmages other than evocation, right?

as in, you could just as easily be an enchantment archmage, or a conjuration archmage, etc?

[jortann]

Yes.

I go the archmage route and do not take any SLA's.

I also try to run with maximize on as frequently as I can. So, the extra sp from archmage helps.

[lppmor]

you do realise there are types of archmages other than evocation, right?

as in, you could just as easily be an enchantment archmage, or a conjuration archmage, etc?

Sure, but can any of them help me solo my way to lvl 20? Or are just useful for high lvl content?

[Hesterre]

I would like to start a new Archmage, and I thought about how to level him to 20 (playing solo).

The first thing coming to mind is of course a force mage with all force SLAs. I believe the general idea here is to take Maximize and Empower very soon to make good use of Magic Missiles and later Chain Missiles, with some Arcane Bolts to cover the cooldown gaps. However, having Maximize/Empower turned on makes all other spells other than the SLAs hard to cast, due to sp issues. This means that I would have to basically only use SLAs, with very few well placed spells to kill groups, bosses, etc.

But how about instead of going the force mage path, just take Archmage for the sp boost and use normal spells all the time, avoiding the SLAs at all? I mean, a Maximized/Empowered Magic Missile deals on avarege 56 damage, in addition to consuming some of your maximum sp and also making all other spells way more expensive. On the other hand, a simple Scorching Ray at lvl 11+ deals around 60 damage with no metamagic, cost only 8 sp, and also has a faster cooldown. In the same way, SLA Chain Missiles decreases your max sp, has a large cooldown, and also requires metamagic to be turned on; so why not just cast a normal Acid Blast, no metamagic, for probably even more damage, only 15 sp, and lower cooldown?

What I'm trying to say is: You guys believe playing as Archmage with no SLA, just enjoying the larger sp pool and turning metamagic on only in a few situations, is a good choice now after Update 9 changes?

I solo a lot to and I respect'd just to get my MM/Chains back after having dumped them earlier. I can do between 600 - 800 damage (much of which is AOE) every 10 sec or so for a cost of what...13 sp? I really missed the cheap damage when I was soloing and didn't have them. True, I keep emp/max on so it makes other spells more costly but if what I'm shooting at can't be killed quickly with the SLA combo. I usually need to have emp/max'd meteor storms, etc. anyway. I don't bother with bolt/blast however.

If you go minimalist on the evoker line, take AM IV and V but skip the associated SLAs for those tiers you still come out +225 on SP while having a very handy and very cheap damage spell thats good against most everything in the game. My take is: if you're going to invest the feats and APs to get 400 SP, might as well grab a couple SLAs on the way. You get a lot of bang for the 175 SP cost.

[Hesterre]

Sure, but can any of them help me solo my way to lvl 20? Or are just useful for high lvl content?

Evoker Chains and Secondary Conjuration for the Webs are a great duo for soloing IMO.

[Jaid314]

Sure, but can any of them help me solo my way to lvl 20? Or are just useful for high lvl content?

sure, enchant can let you zerg a lot more easily if you don't care about killing things (charm ftw), can let you render opponents to a non-threat, etc.

conjuration gives you a stronger web, which can also make a huge difference in play.

but yeah, provided you don't have a fixation on killing everything, you can use charm effects quite well; for example, if you see a group of 3 monsters, and charm 1, the other two will ignore you while they kill the other. if you charm enough enemies that they defeat the uncharmed enemies, you will even find that when they come uncharmed their aggro table is blank - that is, they won't come after you at all, provided you've already moved past.

once you get mass charm person, and mass suggestion, you'll be able to 'defeat' groups of enemies in about a second or so. you won't be getting conquest, i suppose, but you will probably get a lot more of the 'stealthy' type exp rewards, and it should go *very* fast. even before that, simply throwing a couple of charm person spells can basically win a fight for you cheaply and quickly, without you needing to pay any further attention to it.

[lppmor]

My take is: if you're going to invest the feats and APs to get 400 SP, might as well grab a couple SLAs on the way. You get a lot of bang for the 175 SP cost.

Agreed.

I think my main concern here is basically if really worth having to play with Maximize/Empower on all the time to make evocation SLAs effective, but also making other spells expensive (maybe too much, since metamagic was not yet changed after the spell pass).

In fact, the idea of getting non-evocation SLAs seems nice. This way I don't need to worry too much about metamagic, have freedom to cast any spell at a cheap cost (their base cost, with no metamagic), and still have some very cheap support SLAs, such as Hypnotism, maybe Web..

[Hesterre]

In fact, the idea of getting non-evocation SLAs seems nice. This way I don't need to worry too much about metamagic, have freedom to cast any spell at a cheap cost (their base cost, with no metamagic), and still have some very cheap support SLAs, such as Hypnotism, maybe Web..

While this might mitigate the max/emp issue, if you go either the enchantment or the conjure route you'll always want Heighten turned on for your hypno's and web's.

[Ungood]

The first thing coming to mind is of course a force mage with all force SLAs. I believe the general idea here is to take Maximize and Empower very soon to make good use of Magic Missiles and later Chain Missiles, with some Arcane Bolts to cover the cooldown gaps. However, having Maximize/Empower turned on makes all other spells other than the SLAs hard to cast, due to sp issues. This means that I would have to basically only use SLAs, with very few well placed spells to kill groups, bosses, etc.

This was discussed in another thread, and the way it seems to work out, is that Max and Empower are really not worth it when it comes to single target spells anymore, due to the decreased cost.

Now, how that has been panning out, I am not sure, I hope someone can shed some light on that. However, as it stands, I would wager that a focus on crit enhancers would be the way to go.

As for Archmage, since you need the Int to get the tiers up, it might not be worth it at the starting levels for a few extra SP, and instead focus on just increasing your based damage with linage.

Just a thought to ponder.

What I'm trying to say is: You guys believe playing as Archmage with no SLA, just enjoying the larger sp pool and turning metamagic on only in a few situations, is a good choice now after Update 9 changes?

Give a try, it is just an enhancement, you can change it as much as you want for a nominal in game fee at yuor trainer.

[Montegue]

Do you have a link to that thread? Because I can't imagine doing much of any real damage without Max and Empower on full time.

[Ungood]

Do you have a link to that thread? Because I can't imagine doing much of any real damage without Max and Empower on full time.

You realize you are asking me to dig though DOOOOOOOOOMMMMM (tm) U9 Threads involving Firewall, about this?>

[wax_on_wax_off]

But how about instead of going the force mage path, just take Archmage for the sp boost and use normal spells all the time, avoiding the SLAs at all? I mean, a Maximized/Empowered Magic Missile deals on avarege 56 damage, in addition to consuming some of your maximum sp and also making all other spells way more expensive. On the other hand, a simple Scorching Ray at lvl 11+ deals around 60 damage with no metamagic, cost only 8 sp, and also has a faster cooldown. In the same way, SLA Chain Missiles decreases your max sp, has a large cooldown, and also requires metamagic to be turned on; so why not just cast a normal Acid Blast, no metamagic, for probably even more damage, only 15 sp, and lower cooldown?

Totally the way to go. On my archmage I didn't take any SLA's and the extra SPs let me solo just about everything with ease. Force spells are ok but in the end there are better choices for offensive spells. Using those extra SPs to drop maximised, empowered firewalls, acid blasts and whatever else whenever you like and you'll cruise through content (obviously try to use the spells against large groups though, kite and get dungeon alert if you have to).

That said, occasionally I did find myself missing low SP cost single target spells as after about level 10 I never turned off maximise and empower. Those archers and so forth are quite annoying but the outcome was that I just ignored them and moved on (archers don't add to dungeon alert).

[Solmage]

Specially with the now nerfed SLAs, it makes more sense than ever to not grab a single one and just get the mana, and higher DC boosts.

A single ice storm/firewall or even acid rain will do tons more damage, and will do so cheapy if not maximized.

[Ungood]

Specially with the now nerfed SLAs, it makes more sense than ever to not grab a single one and just get the mana, and higher DC boosts.

A single ice storm/firewall or even acid rain will do tons more damage, and will do so cheapy if not maximized.

You noticed that too huh? They give us this Echos of Power and then nerf the SLA so the Echos don't mean squat. That ticked me off quite a bit. so much so I shelved my Wiz.

[Hesterre]

Specially with the now nerfed SLAs, it makes more sense than ever to not grab a single one and just get the mana, and higher DC boosts.

A single ice storm/firewall or even acid rain will do tons more damage, and will do so cheapy if not maximized.

-Archmage's Evocation I Magic Missile spell point cost has been increased to 2 sp.
-Archmage's Evocation III Chain Missile spell point cost has been increased to 10 sp, and its cooldown increased to 8 seconds.

These are the only two changes to the evoker line that effect damage output and spell point consumption right? I’ve read often since the update how “nerf’d” AM has become. These changes are hardly noticeable on my wiz. I’m just not seeing the nerf. Throw in Echoes and we now have an infinite supply of pew-pew if things get silly. Can someone shed some light if I’m missing something, because I just can’t see the nerf.

I ran some rudimentary tests on your damage assessment and found the results to be quite different. On my 18 wiz nearly full force spec’d, in the Vale with that handy little group of 4 rats that hang out just to the west of the entrance to Meridia:

I ran three instances each: heightened SLA web followed by maxed/empowered SLA chain missiles and MMs. Next three instances I disabled all metas and threw ice storm then stood there and let them chew on me.


SLA Results (total damage/SP consumption)

Run 1 1055/25
Run 2 1203/27
Run 3 1078/27

Average 1112/26.3

Next three instances I disabled all metas and threw ice storm and let them chew on me.

Ice Storm Results (total damage/SP consumption)

Run 1 979/25
Run 2 1040/25
Run 3 1097/25

Average 1039/25

The ice still had 10-12 seconds of duration left so it could have done another 340 or so damage. Comparing damage per 10 seconds between SLA chain missiles and plain jane ice storm (damage/SP)

SLA Chain Missile 521/10
Ice Storm 340/8.3

Effective damage per spell point:

SLA Chain Missile 52
Ice Storm 41


I didn’t bother testing the wall of fire or acid because the results would clearly be skewed in favor of the force line, but all things were equal in terms of enhancements and gear on this test.

[Kza]

At lvl 16 with my tr 36 point archmage, evocation route. sla magic and chain (+both force slas). (at 20 tr directly)

If you want to solo as fast as possible to 20 i really cant see not taking em. They are so nice max/emp those 4 babies all time and throw in some ice storm/firewall where needed. Very fast and very smooth.

[samthedagger]

Without the SLAs there really isn't much of a reason to be an archmage, aside from the boost to save DCs. The bonus SP is a feature, which mainly just offsets the SP you give up to get SLAs. But the bonus SP is not the defining element of the archmage, which is pretty much all you get without the SLAs.

Heightened hypno arcmhage used to be the way to press the easy button but now that's gone. Still, the enchantment SLAs are and extremely potent way to get the bad guys to fight each other or just stand still while you endrun the quest.

[Kyln]

Can someone shed some light if I’m missing something, because I just can’t see the nerf.

Just a guess here, but maybe the attitude is in reference to the newly buffed Sorcerers, viability of insta-death spells and the effectiveness of the new single target DoT spells. My impression is that these make the evocation less attractive in the meta-game, with the longer cool down times and increased spell points only the icing on the cake of the meta-game shift.

[Montegue]

I like the SLAs for Magic Missile and Chain Missile, and obviously also hypnotism. I am becoming less enamored with Arcane Bolt because of how many critters evade it's damage completely (and the fact that it only slams in hard every now and again).

I am **loving*** the new DoT from the electricity line, so much so that I respecced to electric (which will change to ice as soon as I find a scroll for the Ice DoT or ding 20). Honestly, you can almost play your Wizard like an Arcane Mage in WoW as it stands. Roll some DoTs, then spam your Chain Missile and Magic Missile SLAs until you have keep the dot up again. Works great on purple bosses and elite reds.

I still can't nail down high DCs for my enchantment. I need to respec for it a bit, but the best I can do is about 36 or so. Spell pen is a problem as well. AM is a very tight build.