Warforged Pale Master Wiz/Rogue?

[Cardtrick]

I've never played a wizard, but I'm planning to soon. (Largely for the past life.) I know it's unorthodox, but I'm considering going with a warforged pale master.

Can anyone give me a sense of how bad an idea this is? I like the idea of being extremely tough, and it seems like the warforged CON bonus would help with that. I know there's a lot of overlap between pale master immunities and warforged immunities, but it seems like most pale masters don't stay undead all the time, and I would like to have some immunities at all times. And I like the idea of having two sources of self-healing; repair spells seem better for burst healing when stuff hits the fan than pale master negative energy healing.

Plus there's the fact that most pale master benefits don't kick in until level 12, which will actually be level 14 for a wiz/rogue, so that's a big chunk of a character's life to be doing without self-healing and immunities.

Has anyone gone this route? Did you regret it? Especially interested if anyone has done this for an 18/2 wiz/rogue, post-U9.

[Jaid314]

as of U9, undead form is available starting at level 6 actually. yes, it's a gimpy one, but it is available.

[Darkrok]

It's not a bad idea at all. However, if you're doing it for the healing then don't bother.

Negative Energy Burst is faster healing than repairs/reconstruct and cheaper as well (since you'd have to turn off your form, repair, then turn it back on).

I play an elven wiz/rog and I've stayed in form ever since level 7 (1 rogue/6 wizard). There's just not a good reason to drop form and the immunities are amazing.

If you're going WF'd for the con bonus I'd go with dwarf instead. Same con bonus, no wis penalty, and bonuses to saves against spells. It's the 'tough' option for pale masters.

[Keylon]

I actually have a WF PM:
18 wizard/2 monk
2 monk is better than 2 rogue because you get 2 free toughness feats which leaves room for spell pen and greater spell pen.
HP: 554
SP: 1700
Necro DC: 39
He is an amazing built namely because of its survivability, I find I can get smacked around in shavarath all I want and still survive.
Equipment:
Light and Darkness
Fanged Gloves
+3 exceptional int kama
Minos Legends
Xachosnian Eardweller
Stormreaver's Napkin
Epic Ring of the Bucaneer (Gonna change to gnawed ring when I loot one)
Vorne's Belt
FF boots
Ring with medium guild augment slot for +60 sp
Bracers empty
Blue dragonscale docent
Goggles with medium guild augment slot for +15 hp

Excellent survivability plus with the new 10sp necrotic ray you can easily go to town on anything in there

[Cardtrick]

Thanks for the responses. So . . . sounds like it's not a terrible idea. I'll have to play around with the planner a bit and see what comes out. I may just end up going with the standard human palemaster/rogue though. It's always hard to give up a feat.

[Tobril]

I’d like to add a few thoughts here…


During the Sarlona pale master shroud run about half the party was WF.

I’m not certain as to why this was the case, but in my situation it was
because by existing caster was an old 18/2 WF wiz/thief retrofitted
for the newly buffed PrE.

A heavy investment in docents (defiance, mabar) is why he is still WF.

If this is the case for you and it’s just a leveling build for the past life,
then WF may be easier to level early on due to easy and cheap self
healing, and especially so later when your DoD comes online.


Currently I’m working on getting mine the shroud of the abbot, and eventually
the mabar robe when the event happens again. He will then become a human
for the extra INT, feat, skill points, etc. (not sure on splash vs pure, but that’s another story)

[Cardtrick]

Do you find yourself ever using your repair spells for self-healing, or are you able to completely rely on the pale master undead forms and negative energy?

[Tobril]

Do you find yourself ever using your repair spells for self-healing, or are you able to completely rely on the pale master undead forms and negative energy?

98% undead healing. (recon post-rez after getting killed doing something stupid)

I’ve been thinking about this for awhile now and can’t really think of
a situation where I might need traditional repair/reconstruct that
cannot be mitigated by some other mechanism.
(hirelings while leveling and before getting forms, divine healers in DQ epic, etc)


I’m just saying if you happen to already have some seriously
tricked out docents then being a robot is OK, especially if this
is just for leveling purposes.

[Cardtrick]

98% undead healing. (recon post-rez after getting killed doing something stupid)

I’ve been thinking about this for awhile now and can’t really think of
a situation where I might need traditional repair/reconstruct that
cannot be mitigated by some other mechanism.
(hirelings while leveling and before getting forms, divine healers in DQ epic, etc)

Thanks for this response, Tobril -- you pretty much made up my mind for me. It seems that even when you have both forms of healing available, there's very little need for repair. Knowing that, if I decide to go super resilient on my palemaster, I'll go dwarf rather than warforged (still gets the CON and toughness, also gets bonus saves). But more likely I'll stick with the traditional human version. It'll give me an extra feat to play with, anyway.

[Waylayer]

Traditionally, I take the 2nd rogue level @ 14 - so as not to delay tier two of the PRE any more than necessary. Now that there is a level 6 form, I might rethink this - but probably not, as I am not a fan of the zombie form.

[slimkj]

I've played both non-WF and WF PM and everyone here is giving good advice. It's not a bad thing to be a WF PM, particularly if you have a lot of WF-oriented gear, but you use form so much to self heal you can be fleshy just as well. Go with what you will enjoy and it'll work out fine either way.

[HAL]

Being a new PM, I was curious how it worked in all the undead dungeons? Any issues? Thanks!

[Waylayer]

Being a new PM, I was curious how it worked in all the undead dungeons? Any issues? Thanks!

They can totally suxor, if you don't plan for them. Make sure you have a few non-negative-energy spells.

The "your death aura heals them" is a minor annoyance. Your necrotic burst healing them is even more so. Forgetting where you are, and using an SLA or necrotic ray - can ruin your day.

[HAL]

The "your death aura heals them" is a minor annoyance.

So your death aura does heal them? I thought it might since the Radient Burst of a cleric damages them but I was hoping it didn't

[slimkj]

It's really nothing to worry about. Even if you do accidentally heal them it's just another cast of a pertinent spell to knock much more HP off than you gave them back.

Even with the reflex save and changes to SP cost, wall of fire will do you fine for most undead oriented places in the game on reasonable difficulties. Particular dungeons and some places on elite will take more planning, but so they should.

[Jaid314]

your aura does not heal enemy undead, your negative energy burst (which you don't have to use most of the time anyways) does.

also, ignore that BS about how the undead don't have +% negative energy gear therefore they don't get as much as you... all the +% gear your pale master has increases the *spell*, not your self-healing. the amount that you can heal yourself for is the amount that you will heal your undead enemies for... *if* you use negative energy burst or your SLAs. most of the time you won't need anything other than your auras for self-healing, and you just have to take your SLAs off the bar when you're in undead quests... problem solved.

anyways, pale master is just fine in undead areas. a bit annoying, because you actually have to *gasp* use spell points to kill things, but it's not by any means difficult. i've just gotten so used to not having to pay to nuke things, is all :P

[slimkj]

also, ignore that BS about how the undead don't have +% negative energy gear therefore they don't get as much as you... all the +% gear your pale master has increases the *spell*, not your self-healing

Hah, you're totally right. Mindfart. I'm having one of those days I was talking about in another thread. Ignore my post above, sorry. I think I was thinking of the old amrath set or something... durrr.