Just a little Calc. on the Brigand's cutlasses

[stille_nacht]

assumed 40 str, improved crit, hit on-1, enemy is harry (or horoth if you want to be fancy)

brigands: 16 tier 3
base damage+ absolute chaos+ anarchic burst+ vorpal
(3.5base+5enh+15str+2elf) x 1.25 + 7 + 7 + 10.5x.3 + 5= 54.025
-15 DR= 39.025
(btw, scimi base profile= (1x.65+2x.3)= 1.25 times base)

+5 met pure good khopesh
(4.5+5+15) x 1.35 + 3.5= 36.575
(khop base profile is (1x.75+3x.2)= 1.35 times base damage)


so yeah, mr. "im so knowleagable and you are obviously new to the game", your little +3 met of pure good scimitar is inferior to my brigands against harry >.>, and even a +5 met pg khopesh isnt even ahead.

NOTE: seeker adds the same to each.

NOTE: seriously, if you dont care about this thread, then why post in it? leave us here to practice math-fu when we grow bored 8l

[Aeolwind]

Thanks for running this. The brig's felt better, so id kept rolling with them. Now, this seems like solid info.

[stille_nacht]

yeah, i was just curious after some level 20 told me i couldnt come on the normal shroud (i usually dont join link bb normal shrouds, but meh, i was bored)

[Bechtinger]

Seeker does not add the same to each. The bonus ticks in before the multipliers are apllied so with a bloodstone you gain +12 to a crit on scimis and + 18 to a crit with khopesh.

So Scimis as stated (imp crit, 40 str, what is a +15 bonus to damage for single-handed and bloodstone)
non-crit: (13/20)*(20 + 3.5 + 7 + 7) = 24.375
crit: (6/20)*[(20 +3.5 +6)*2 + 7 + 10.5 + 7) = 25.05
vorp: (1/20)*100 = 5
average per swing = 54.425
average per swing after DR = 39.425

+5 met pg Khopesh
non-crit: (15/20)*(20 + 4.5 + 3.5) = 21
crit: (4/20)*[(20 + 4.5 + 6)*3 + 3.5] = 19
average per swing = 40

This is average per swing. Close to nothing but depends on your class too. Seeker enhancements, Divine might etc.
Everything that gives a bonus to damage (more STR, dmg bonuns from various sources like Divine Favor, Divine Might, Power Attack, Kensai Seeker, set bonus or whatever) will further increase the difference as all this will be applied before the crit multiplier and thus will be tripled for khopesh and only doubled for Scimitars. The higher crit range of the Scimis will loose out in the long run... Don't have the endurance to calculate the dmg bonus breaking point.

[TheDearLeader]

It's effin Shroud.

Lets go with a big "Who cares", shall we?

[Bechtinger]

"Who cares"

This!

[Ninety0ne]

Would you post up 2 cutlass w/silver and good vs an Esos with silver and good? Ive beed curious on this since the vorpal change on the cutlass/ecb dual wield vs esos damage. Thanks in advance

[wax_on_wax_off]

Seeker does not add the same to each. The bonus ticks in before the multipliers are apllied so with a bloodstone you gain +12 to a crit on scimis and + 18 to a crit with khopesh.

So Scimis as stated (imp crit, 40 str, what is a +15 bonus to damage for single-handed and bloodstone)
non-crit: (14/20)*(20 + 3.5 + 7 + 7) = 26.25
crit: (6/20)*[(20 +3.5 +6)*2 + 7 + 10.5 + 7) = 25.05
average per swing = 51,3
average per swing after DR = 36,3

+5 met pg Khopesh
non-crit: (16/20)*(20 + 4.5 + 3.5) = 22.4
crit: (4/20)*[(20 + 4.5 + 6)*3 + 3.5] = 19
average per swing = 41.4

This is average per swing. The more swings you do, the higher your absolute dps loss is. You have approx 12.5% dps loss. So if your toon does about 400 dps with a met pg khopesh you go down to 350 dps, which is a significant loss. BUT I wouldnt decline you for a normal shroud for that...

The OP is correct in stating that seeker adds the same to scimitar as to khopesh as scimitar crits 6 times in 20 rolls for 12 extra damage each time with seeker +6 for 72 while a khopesh crits 4 times for 18 extra damage for 72 extra damage.

[stille_nacht]

Seeker does not add the same to each. The bonus ticks in before the multipliers are apllied so with a bloodstone you gain +12 to a crit on scimis and + 18 to a crit with khopesh.

and 12 times .3= 18 x.2

so using your method (you forgot +2 elf D

(.65) (20+3.5+7+7+2) = 25.675
(.3) ((20+3.5+6+2)x2+7+7+10.5)= 26.25

51.925-15= 36.925

(.75) (20+4.5+3.5)= 21
(.2) (20+4.5+6) x3 +3.5= 19

40

hmm my original number were wrong somehow :/, cant find error

It's effin Shroud.

Lets go with a big "Who cares", shall we?

clearly not you, so i ask, why do you take the time to post on this thread?

also, it applies equally to ToD, which would make it more valid for you?

[TheDearLeader]

clearly not you, so i ask, why do you take the time to post on this thread?

also, it applies equally to ToD, which would make it more valid for you?

Because I can?

And maaaaybe. But it's not. It's Shroud. You joined a "link bb" Shroud, so I'm pretty sure you wanted a little drama.

If we're really going to get technical, why the lvl 16 version instead of the Epics? Not a capped toon?

[Bechtinger]

Edited my post, didnt include missing on a 1 and the post update 9 vorpal effect. Now it should be right.

[Angelus_dead]

(btw, scimi base profile= (1x.65+2x.3)= 1.25 times base)
(khop base profile is (1x.75+3x.2)= 1.35 times base damage)

Did you forget to include 50% Fortitification? That reduces the value of the khopesh's superior critical profile, making other damage properties of the weapon relatively more important.

[Bechtinger]

Calculating fort as a 50% miss chance on crits, instead damage is calculated like non-crit

So Scimis as stated (imp crit, 40 str, what is a +15 bonus to damage for single-handed and bloodstone)
non-crit: (13/20)*(20 + 3.5 + 7 + 7) = 24.375
crit hits: (1/2)* (6/20)*[(20 +3.5 +6)*2 + 7 + 10.5 + 7) = 12.25
crit blocked: (1/2)* (6/20)*(20 + 3.5 + 7 + 7) = 5.625
vorp: (1/20)*100 = 5
average per swing = 43.25
average per swing after DR = 28.25

+5 met pg Khopesh
non-crit: (15/20)*(20 + 4.5 + 3.5) = 21
crit: (1/2)*(4/20)*[(20 + 4.5 + 6)*3 + 3.5] = 9.5
crit blocked: (1/2)*(4/20)*(20 + 4.5 + 3.5) = 2.8
average per swing = 33,3

The average loss rises from ~0% to 15%???

Seems a bit odd. Find the mistake... Too late for that math stuff...

[FishieFishie]

Calculating fort as a 50% miss chance on crits, instead damage is calculated like non-crit

So Scimis as stated (imp crit, 40 str, what is a +15 bonus to damage for single-handed and bloodstone)
non-crit: (13/20)*(20 + 3.5 + 7 + 7) = 24.375
crit hits: (1/2)* (6/20)*[(20 +3.5 +6)*2 + 7 + 10.5 + 7) = 12.25
crit blocked: (1/2)* (6/20)*(20 + 3.5 + 7 + 7) = 5.625
vorp: (1/20)*100 = 5
average per swing = 43.25
average per swing after DR = 28.25

+5 met pg Khopesh
non-crit: (15/20)*(20 + 4.5 + 3.5) = 21
crit: (1/2)*(4/20)*[(20 + 4.5 + 6)*3 + 3.5] = 9.5
crit blocked: (1/2)*(4/20)*(20 + 4.5 + 3.5) = 2.8
average per swing = 33,3

The average loss rises from ~0% to 15%???

Seems a bit odd. Find the mistake...

you forgot to +5 damage on scimitar for vorpal. so average per swing is 47.25, after DR is 31.25. think your maths for scimi is off a bit, since i could only get 42.25 without the +5 from vorpal

[Bechtinger]

Argh, its getting too late... So it stays close. Scimis seem to do a good job!

But still without racial bonus n stuff... For elf, it might be better to have scimis, especially if you assume that you hit on a 2 with simis (to-hit bonus) and on a 4 with khopesh, but as stated. Late. Bed. No maths...

[stille_nacht]

Because I can?

And maaaaybe. But it's not. It's Shroud. You joined a "link bb" Shroud, so I'm pretty sure you wanted a little drama.

If we're really going to get technical, why the lvl 16 version instead of the Epics? Not a capped toon?

ill have my greensteel shinies by cap :P, so made lv 16 versions to use from 16-18 or so

and i joined a link bb shroud partially for drama (there is always drama in those), but i got cut out! ah didnt come to khyber to be bored! >:

[AylinIsAwesome]

yeah, i was just curious after some level 20 told me i couldnt come on the normal shroud (i usually dont join link bb normal shrouds, but meh, i was bored)

To be honest, I'm more likely to join those Shrouds, simply because often I'm on one of my FvS, and I have to heal it. I know I'm going to be in a group with several people all sure that they're the best DPS to ever play the game, but at least I won't have to a heal 0% Fort Paladin wielding a +3 Bastard Sword of Shattermantle and a Mithral shield... (yes that did happen).

Seeker does not add the same to each. The bonus ticks in before the multipliers are apllied so with a bloodstone you gain +12 to a crit on scimis and + 18 to a crit with khopesh.

Math fail.

Khopesh: 17-20, 3x

6*.2*3=3.6

Rapier/Scimitar: 15-20, 2x

6*.3*2=3.6

Note that 3.6=3.6

[Bechtinger]

Ya, we had that before.

[kernal42]

Do you really get the 100 damage vorpal hits on raid bosses?
I'd be surprised, but a screenshot would be convincing!

-Kernal

[TheDearLeader]

Do you really get the 100 damage vorpal hits on raid bosses?
I'd be surprised, but a screenshot would be convincing!

-Kernal

Sink so?

I was on my gimpy little Spellsinger in VoD Hard the other day, and I was using the Tier III Epic Cutlasses. We had an AoV name the Sully tank their champion, so all the Alignment-Based damage was nice, purple numbers. I loves me some purple numbers...

Anyway, the Vorpal procs went off on Sully. Doubtful I have a SS at this time.