-100% hate possible?

[suszterpatt]

Subtle backstab 4: -40%
Treason: -20%
Tharnes set: -20%
ToD set with Assassin 2: -20%

I guess the question is, do all these stack? And supposing that they do, would this mean that you could hit monsters as much as you want without drawing aggro ever?

I'm guessing no, but I thought I"d just check. Anyone know which of these stacks with which?

[TheDearLeader]

This has been addressed by Eladrin before. I think his words were along the lines of "it shouldn't be possible." - Give me a moment.

Edit : Found it. I love when I actually remember to bookmark something.

For those too lazy to read the full post:

I think that we currently have it set so threat reducers can't bring you below 50%, but I'll have to check.

Edit 2 : Read the post below mine. Shucks.

[SableShadow]

Looks like I was wrong on that one (I was working from memory in that post). There's currently no minimum to threat reduction (so you could theoretically drop all the way to 0), but we'll likely adjust that and add a minimum threat multiplier in the pass I was talking about. The actual minimum value would be still to be determined.

What can I say, I'm kinda a contrarian (well, Discordian, actually...CN ftw!).

He's also got a line in there that same values don't stack...which goes against the old podcast....and he contradicts himself a couple times in the thread...not sure quite what to believe at this point.

Guess I'll just have to play with Diplo/Bluff for a while instead.

[TheDearLeader]

What can I say, I'm kinda a contrarian (well, Discordian, actually...CN ftw!).

He's also got a line in there that same values don't stack...which goes against the old podcast....and he contradicts himself a couple times in the thread...not sure quite what to believe at this point.

Guess I'll just have to play with Diplo/Bluff for a while instead.

Bah, +1 to you.

And that thread's a bit old, anyway - I kinda wish we would've gotten that "breakdown" of how threat works, like we were told we would, instead of an Update that took what little we *did* know and turn it on its head.

[Valindria]

Subtle backstab 4: -40%
Treason: -20%
Tharnes set: -20%
ToD set with Assassin 2: -20%

I guess the question is, do all these stack? And supposing that they do, would this mean that you could hit monsters as much as you want without drawing aggro ever?

I'm guessing no, but I thought I"d just check. Anyone know which of these stacks with which?

As I understand it even if you reduced the threat that much you would still be doing threat with each hit, meaning that if you were solo you would still generate aggro. I could be wrong, but that is how I understand it. It's treason 80% or am I thinking of it wrong?

[SableShadow]

Bah, +1 to you.

And that thread's a bit old, anyway - I kinda wish we would've gotten that "breakdown" of how threat works, like we were told we would, instead of an Update that took what little we *did* know and turn it on its head.

Yah, I totally agree. Seem to have as many questions now as when we started.

As I understand it even if you reduced the threat that much you would still be doing threat with each hit, meaning that if you were solo you would still generate aggro. I could be wrong, but that is how I understand it. It's treason 80% or am I thinking of it wrong?

Treason's an odd duck...the description is reversed from other threat reducing gear (e.g. Tharne's says "20% less threat" or some such, while Treason states "only 80% of your damage is counted toward threat" or some such.)

What's the difference among all the aggro reducers? Good question! That's the joke TheDearLeader and I were sharing...there are a couple dev posts on the topic, which only seem to muddy the waters further.

[TheDearLeader]

As I understand it even if you reduced the threat that much you would still be doing threat with each hit, meaning that if you were solo you would still generate aggro. I could be wrong, but that is how I understand it. It's treason 80% or am I thinking of it wrong?

I'm not sure it's about soloing. I think it's more "I'm a Rogue that can't pop a Haste Boost because I pull aggro from Hate Tanks" kind of deal. I've seen some that have aggro-management issues, especially in long fights like in Raids, even with Subtle Backstabbing IV and Tharne's.

Treason is 80% of Normal, or in other words -20%.

[suszterpatt]

Ooo, right out of the horse's mouth. +1 to you, good sir.

As I understand it even if you reduced the threat that much you would still be doing threat with each hit, meaning that if you were solo you would still generate aggro. I could be wrong, but that is how I understand it. It's treason 80% or am I thinking of it wrong?

Treason has a slightly clumsy wording:



Note: to 80%, not by 80%. I'm guessing it's just another -20%.

[suszterpatt]

What can I say, I'm kinda a contrarian (well, Discordian, actually...CN ftw!).

He's also got a line in there that same values don't stack...which goes against the old podcast....and he contradicts himself a couple times in the thread...not sure quite what to believe at this point.

Guess I'll just have to play with Diplo/Bluff for a while instead.

He says exactly the same values don't stack, but they tried to make all bonuses unique.

[CaptGrim]

I could be wrong but the wording on treason makes me think it works as the finger necklace.

That is a 10% to the base healing, and stacks in a way with 10% healamp.

Both the treason and finger necklace were introduced before any other heal amp or threat recduction items. Mod 4 and 5 respectively.

It would be much harder to test the treason to prove that though.

[SableShadow]

He says exactly the same values don't stack, but they tried to make all bonuses unique.

Sure. The problem is, that makes sense when you're talking about threat increasers (which come in different values) but not threat decreasers (which all come in the same value, 20% for melee or 15% for ranged).

Since all melee decreasers come in sets (minus Treason), which become harder and harder to fit in, I don't think it matters, since you're in all likelihood only going to end up wearing one.

[TheDearLeader]

Sure. The problem is, that makes sense when you're talking about threat increasers (which come in different values) but not threat decreasers (which all come in the same value, 20% for melee or 15% for ranged).

Since all melee decreasers come in sets, which become harder and harder to fit in, I don't think it matters, since you're in all likelihood only going to end up wearing one.

Even more annoying is that we're not sure if set bonuses to increase/decrease threat are coded in the same way, to confirm/deny their stacking.

MMmm...I just had an idea. I suppose, in lieu of actually *explaining* something, they could be utterly transparent, and code in a "Threat" number on our character sheet?

I'm not talking some other-MMO-esque "bar" on our screen that actively keeps track of how much boss aggro we have or something. But maybe on the front screen of the character sheet, underneath Fortification %, we could have a new "Threat" box, that would display our current threat generation/degeneration %. The value must be stored somewhere in our character data to apply, yes? While I am not a coder, it seems it would be easy to make a new field to display this value.

[SableShadow]

MMmm...I just had an idea. I suppose, in lieu of actually *explaining* something, they could be utterly transparent, and code in a "Threat" number on our character sheet?

And eliminate one more thing we could argue about on the forums?

Madness!

[TheDearLeader]

And eliminate one more thing we could argue about on the forums?

Madness!

Okay, so it's painfully obvious that I just slapped this together with some copy/paste work, but...



Thoughts?

[SableShadow]

Thoughts?

Works for me.

Heck, a running entry in the combat log would do just fine (e.g. "You benefit from your Tharne's Wrath effect (total threat 60%)"), but I'm easy to please ... some days, heh heh.

[destiny4405]

Thoughts?

nice. i would love to see columns for total threat, heal amp and sneak attack damage/to hit (not really needed, but would clear some questions about some tod sets :P).

[Miahoo]

Thoughts?

U9 Bluff and Diplo can change the threat per mob, so its still not accurate.
But it'll be nice to see it, like the SA bonus is not calculated with the 'I' menu.

[TheDearLeader]

nice. i would love to see columns for total threat, heal amp and sneak attack damage/to hit (not really needed, but would clear some questions about some tod sets :P).

It's kinda how I feel. For the values to be used, they must be stored somewhere on our character. It would be much easier (I'd think) to display that value to us, and let us play with gear/enhancements on our own than it would be for the Devs to explain each and every mechanic of the above mentioned things. (SA, Threat, Healing Amp, etc.)

[danielhrobbins]

My understanding was that each threat reduction bonus applies to the total, so, you start at 100%, have a 20% reduction weapon in one hand to make it 80%; then if you have another in the other hand that applies to the 80% (20% of 80 = 16, then total it: 20+16=36% hate reduction); then if you've got subtle backstabbing for, say, 10%, it takes that from the 64 (100-36=64; 10% of 64=6.4, to give you a total of 40.6% aggro reduction). I don't know if this has changed, or if enhancements apply before weapons and gear, but I do remember reading this somewhere around the time they released the subtle backstabbing enhancement.