Raise the Vorpal Thershold above 1000 HP

[Impaqt]

I don't see why a GS weapon that you can make yourself should be more powerful than the most feared weapon in the pnp game.

Vorpals are quite nice in PnP, but far from "The" Most feared and powerful weapon.

You can also craft a vorpal in PnP...

[kernal42]

I agree that vorpals need a buff based soley on the following argument:

LitII is now better than an epic chaosblade in every* situation.

Cheers,
Kernal

*Okay, so eChaosblade is better vs elite devil raid bosses when slotted with a devil's ruin augment.

[Thar]

Also have to keep in mind that some previously useless weapons now have a use.

All those holy smiters are now great portal beaters.

Banishing of pure good is a great DPS weapon to run vale stuff with.

Holy disruption is a great undead beater.

Alot of the higher ML disruptors, banishers, and smiters that used to be vendored now have some value where they previously did not.

Vorpal of pure good with icy burst on it is still a great weapon to run most leveling content with ona first life toon.

holy smiters - when trying to smite something are not 1/6th as effective (vorpal 20 vs crit smite on 15-20). they are now only 1.5 damage (avg) pts below a holy greater construct weapon

Banishing of pure good - if it's something that can be banished again 1/6th as effective. 4 pts damage dps below a holy of greater outsider bane weapon.

vorpal of pure good - still good but not a dps weapon even now. Greater bane will stilll be a better option.

Banishers and smiters were fun before, now you might as well dps as it takes longer to hit a 20 than do the 6 extra hits to kill it.

[Diyon]

holy smiters - when trying to smite something are not 1/6th as effective (vorpal 20 vs crit smite on 15-20). they are now only 1.5 damage (avg) pts below a holy greater construct weapon

Banishing of pure good - if it's something that can be banished again 1/6th as effective. 4 pts damage dps below a holy of greater outsider bane weapon.

vorpal of pure good - still good but not a dps weapon even now. Greater bane will stilll be a better option.

Banishers and smiters were fun before, now you might as well dps as it takes longer to hit a 20 than do the 6 extra hits to kill it.

You failed to note that you can have banishing AND greater bane on a weapon, which surpasses holy greater bane. (add flametouched iron if necessary). A banishing greater bane is 7d6+9 damage per hit compared to holy greater bane's 5d6+4 damage per hit.

Smiters at high level were pretty useless because even on the crits, the target still had to fail a rather low fort save. Now there is no save. Disruption weapons aren't as good at low level anymore (wade through undead 1 or 2 shotting everyone) but at higher lvl that DC is low enough that most of the time, it was a 1/20 chance to kill anyways. Now its a 1/20 chance to kill undead less than a 1000 hp, and 4d6+5 damage on average for every hit.

[Pikeman]

and you NEVER vorpaled them anyway.... They have always been warded.


So you think they should all have Heavy fort, but they all should NOT have Deathblock?

I didn't say any of that. I spoke about fort only.

[EyeRekon]

What if the Vorpal threshold would raise with the + enhancement on the weapon?

Maybe like

• +1 Vorpal = 250 max hp, +25 dmg on 20 (ML:10 or 8 w/ RR)
• +2 Vorpal = 500, + 50 dmg on 20
• +3 Vorpal = 750, + 75 dmg on 20
• +4 Vorpal = 1000, + 100 dmg on 20
• +5 Vorpal = 1250-1500, + 125-150 dmg on 20
• +6 Vorpal (Red slot Epic weapon) = 2000, +200 dmg on 20

In other words Vorpal opens up a way to instakill, but how effective it is depends on the strength of the magical enchantment. Presumably at the ML in which you could wield it, the weapon would work semi-flawlessly for level-appropriate content. So if ML:10 then maybe you could expect to vorpal CR:10 without trouble. Using ML:10 Vorpal weapon on CR:14 should not work as well as an ML:14 +3 Vorpal.

Makes sense, right?

[danotmano1998]

What if the Vorpal threshold would raise with the + enhancement on the weapon?

Maybe like

• +1 Vorpal = 250 max hp, +25 dmg on 20 (ML:10 or 8 w/ RR)
• +2 Vorpal = 500, + 50 dmg on 20
• +3 Vorpal = 750, + 75 dmg on 20
• +4 Vorpal = 1000, + 100 dmg on 20
• +5 Vorpal = 1250-1500, + 125-150 dmg on 20
• +6 Vorpal (Red slot Epic weapon) = 2000, +200 dmg on 20

In other words Vorpal opens up a way to instakill, but how effective it is depends on the strength of the magical enchantment. Presumably at the ML in which you could wield it, the weapon would work semi-flawlessly for level-appropriate content. So if ML:10 then maybe you could expect to vorpal CR:10 without trouble. Using ML:10 Vorpal weapon on CR:14 should not work as well as an ML:14 +3 Vorpal.

Makes sense, right?

This^^
Except perhaps tone down the DC's so instead of semi-flawlessly, it's more like a 50% or less. On a two weapon wielder, they get an awful lot of attacks in a very short time.

[BurnerD]

Regular Vorpal - Cuts your head off just a little bit

Epic Vorpal - Cuts off your head lots more.....

[Impaqt]

I didn't say any of that. I spoke about fort only.

Of course not.. But its a logical conclusion for me to make based on your comments, dont you think?

You want Vorpals to work on 1000+ hit point mobs.. But you think they should have Heavy Fort. If you think they should have Heavy fort, why dontyou think they should have Deathblock? a Much lower "+" pretty common item enhancement...

[Khurse]

1000 is fine.
Vorpals- even the "Epic Vorpal" (ie Brigands cutlass) are too easy to obtain to need to make them more effective.

Nobody said Vorpals were supposed to be the best weapon to take into Epics.

[Seikojin]

I think 1000 is fine. It's like you said "junk gear"

Like it or not, vorpals ARE junk gear. Everyone and there mom has one, they drop like crazy. There not some kinda rare or hard to get weapon.

It's like asking for deception or tendon slice or any other common effect to be super awesome.. It's just too common.

I could see a higher hp cap on very rare weapons with vorpal, like the epic unkors or epic chaosblade...

They could get a upgraded "epic vorpal" effect, that works on up to say 2000 hp, which would cover some epic mobs, tho not all.

I agree here.

[grodon9999]

1000 is fine.
Vorpals- even the "Epic Vorpal" (ie Brigands cutlass) are too easy to obtain to need to make them more effective.

Nobody said Vorpals were supposed to be the best weapon to take into Epics.

It's not the best, nor should it be. But should it be possibly the worst as it is now?

[moops]

I think that they should just not work in EPics, and leave them as they were for the rest of the game. It gave us variety, and variety in strategy.

I carried Min 2, Lit 2, TTS, Trip Positives, Vorpals, and chose which ever ones were best for the quest--I only used Vorpals in a few places--and really, I think that as soon as most people crafted greensteel they stopped using vorpals even where they were best suited, so Im not even sure what the issue was with Vorpals. As soon as I crafted Greensteel I stopped using banishers, and reg disruptors, tho the Trip pos disruption never seems to go off.

What I see now is that I will just be carrying 2 weapon sets on my Tempest and my Kensai. I don't think that does much for variety of game. I see myself using Lit 2 for 99% of the content that I run. So many changes have made many of the specialty weapons that I have pretty worthless.

[Impaqt]

It's not the best, nor should it be. But should it be possibly the worst as it is now?

Its not. Its a ML10 weapon that performs exceptionally well in content in the 10-16ish range.

[Sweyn]

VOD Norm Devils, good luck on using vorpals on them. Shroud same thing.
It was very entertaining trying to kill those devils in Norm VOD, they took forever.

Um, that's the point. It's a raid, it is supposed to be hard and challenging. It is not supposed to be super easy where a level 10 weapon destroys. Hell, any change that makes raids tougher (like this one) i'll support.

[grodon9999]

I think that they should just not work in EPics, and leave them as they were for the rest of the game. It gave us variety, and variety in strategy.

I think that would have been a better option that what we have now.

[grodon9999]

Um, that's the point. It's a raid, it is supposed to be hard and challenging. It is not supposed to be super easy where a level 10 weapon destroys. Hell, any change that makes raids tougher (like this one) i'll support.

Was damned amusing this weekend when the VoD pug I was in was taking so long killing the trash and second orthon wave that my ranger killed Sulu by himself before the rest of the group finished off the ortons/trash. Gotta love Pugs, they are the "box of chocolates" of DDO

VoD has gotten more "interesting" (especially pugs) but only because we haven't gotten meta-gamey on it yet. Give it a week or two and circle of death + wail will take care of all the trash while the DPS stay on the boss.

[moops]

Thinking about it, back b4 greensteel the people I ran with still rarely used vorpals, as it was faster just to DPS the Mobs down--or at least that is how it was with the people that I ran with--just like now, there were only a few places where one might use a vorpal, like the 3rd hallway in a Relic of a Sovreign Past. And then we moved into the whole W/P thing.

Did they make the changes to the Vorpals, Smiters, Banishers, and Disruptors to get more people to craft? I jsut cant believe that these weapons were being abused. The weapons were barely used as it is (by people and pugs I run with) but I can see if you craft something and its just another added thing, they would be viewed more as possible added DPS.

[Ebuddy]

So now it's all about DPS and pure strength, tricked-out-to-the-max DPS toons. The min-max-grinders are happy 'cause they never used a variety of situational weapons anyhow.

Lest we remember that a vorpal still needed to be a *confirmed* critical anyhow.

So for we casual players, yet one more change that makes the game more difficult for us. Hit the LFM for a VoD normal just this past weekend. Leader wanted link to weps. I linked my LitII and my +4 seeker silver of PG. He replied that (I was on my rogue) my DPS would be too low and that if I had 2 LitIIs, he'd probably let me in.

This may be just antecdotal now but with the change to casters, it's all gonna be about max-DPS builds only, everyone else need not apply.

[Gulnar13]

Over 9000.

Just change vorpal into universal bane, 2d4 damage per hit, unresistable. Like vicious that doesn't hurt you.

Lol.
Actualy now vorpals do 5 damage/hit if the monster is over 1k, and 50 dam/hit if under.
You're proposing to change it to 2-8 damage per hit... which averange... 5/HIT?

Vorpals are fine. Just add them to the crafting recipes. I want to dump my old vorpal kamas and to get a shiny new vorpal handwrap.