Raise the Vorpal Thershold above 1000 HP

[grodon9999]

I'm not quite sure what the number should be but 1000 HP feels too low. Bad-builds with junk gear will put out 1000 points of damage in less than 20 swings. Even good vorpals like the fully-upgraded Brigand's Cutlass aren't worth using as the insta-kill procs so rarely you're better off with lightnings.

I guess if you don't have GS yet vorpals are fine but if you've got lightnings/ESoS already it doesn't look like there's any point in using them from what I've observed in the past few days.

I don't think they should kill a non-deathwarded target regardless of HP, vorping that 76,000 HP giant in claw would be silly but 1000 HP is too low of a threshold. Not sure what the right number is, but that's too low.

[Synthetic]

Lit 2 should be better then a vorpal it's more difficult to obtain.

[Impaqt]

Mobs with over 1000 hit points are few and far between until you get to true End game quests.. and even then, you often dont see 1k until you hit hard and even elite difficulties.

Sorry, but I see no reason why a ML10 Weapon should be instant win in Raids or Elite Amrath Quests....

Vorpals were used extensively on mobs with fewer that 1000 hit points before the change. dps hasnt changed much....

[grodon9999]

Sorry, but I see no reason why a ML10 Weapon should be instant win in Raids or Elite Amrath Quests....

Neither do I, but 1000 HP is too low.

[Shade]

I think 1000 is fine. It's like you said "junk gear"

Like it or not, vorpals ARE junk gear. Everyone and there mom has one, they drop like crazy. There not some kinda rare or hard to get weapon.

It's like asking for deception or tendon slice or any other common effect to be super awesome.. It's just too common.

I could see a higher hp cap on very rare weapons with vorpal, like the epic unkors or epic chaosblade...

They could get a upgraded "epic vorpal" effect, that works on up to say 2000 hp, which would cover some epic mobs, tho not all.

[Chai]

So bad builds with junk gear, who can put out 1k damage in less than 20 swings, would have vorpals to lean on for a longer amount of time. The issue I see with vorpals is everybody has them. They are a dime a dozen.

The first time I am seeing trash mobs with just over 1k HP is in the new quest chain on hard. If I swing a vorpal and get a 20 on the first hit it does 100 extra damage but even on like the third hit, the vorp was an insta kill. So like level 15-16 ish trash on hard has ~1k hp, depending. Vorps are instal kill in quest levels before that, and afterward, its still going to insta kill unless your first or second roll is the 20.

I see people saying 1k isnt the right number. What is the right number? 1500? What level range of trash mob is that?

I kind of like the fact that people cant vorp their way to 20, or at least, not reliably.

[grodon9999]

I think 1000 is fine. It's like you said "junk gear"

Like it or not, vorpals ARE junk gear. Everyone and there mom has one, they drop like crazy. There not some kinda rare or hard to get weapon.

It's like asking for deception or tendon slice or any other common effect to be super awesome.. It's just too common.

I could see a higher hp cap on very rare weapons with vorpal, like the epic unkors or epic chaosblade...

They could get a upgraded "epic vorpal" effect, that works on up to say 2000 hp, which would cover some epic mobs, tho not all.

An "epic vorpal" effect doesn't sound too bad but since everyone and their mother has a pair of brigands cutlasses the effect wouldn't be rare. 2000 might be a bit much as that might one-shot some weaker epic mobs, I highly doubt the drow in epics even have 2000 HP at this point.

Again I'm not sure what the number should be, 1000 HP just feels too low.

[Illiain]

Sorry, but I see no reason why a ML10 Weapon should be instant win in Raids or Elite Amrath Quests....

Vorpals were used extensively on mobs with fewer that 1000 hit points before the change. dps hasnt changed much....

Holy is a +2 base price modifier, greater bane is a +3, vorpal is a +5. Why should a +5 holy/greater bane deal more damage than a +5 vorpal? They're both +10 weapons.

[Diyon]

Devs - "Okay, we can do that for you! The vorpal hp cap is now 1001!"

[grodon9999]

I see people saying 1k isnt the right number. What is the right number? 1500?

I'm thinking 50% health of a strong epic Mob, whatever that might be. Maybe 1500 I'm not sure

[Kriogen]

...
I see people saying 1k isnt the right number. What is the right number? 1500? ...

Over 9000.

Just change vorpal into universal bane, 2d4 damage per hit, unresistable. Like vicious that doesn't hurt you.

[Diyon]

Holy is a +2 base price modifier, greater bane is a +3, vorpal is a +5. Why should a +5 holy/greater bane deal more damage than a +5 vorpal? They're both +10 weapons.

Greater bane is situational damage. So is vorpal! It does more damage to than that combo to monsters with less than 1000 hp! =P

[Krag]

I could see a higher hp cap on very rare weapons with vorpal, like the epic unkors or epic chaosblade...

They could get a upgraded "epic vorpal" effect, that works on up to say 2000 hp, which would cover some epic mobs, tho not all.

I like this idea. Considering how many targets have lightning resist/immunity and how many targets are not lawful, ECB does not feel to have enough bang for the buck.

[MrWizard]

I'm not quite sure what the number should be but 1000 HP feels too low. Bad-builds with junk gear will put out 1000 points of damage in less than 20 swings. Even good vorpals like the fully-upgraded Brigand's Cutlass aren't worth using as the insta-kill procs so rarely you're better off with lightnings.

I guess if you don't have GS yet vorpals are fine but if you've got lightnings/ESoS already it doesn't look like there's any point in using them from what I've observed in the past few days.

I don't think they should kill a non-deathwarded target regardless of HP, vorping that 76,000 HP giant in claw would be silly but 1000 HP is too low of a threshold. Not sure what the right number is, but that's too low.

the reason they did this to disruptors, banishers, smiters, and vorpals was to effectively take them out of the game. They are mostly just a 'extra' damage weapon if you happen to have one that also breaks DR somehow...

basically useless...too bad some wasted plat on high crit banishers.

the big 5 are pretty much dead, although paralyzers still work when someone uses them...

On the plus side, TWFers have a ton of back space now since they can get rid of 4 sets of useless weapons...8 backpack slots..so, bright side of the cloud I guess

[Impaqt]

Holy is a +2 base price modifier, greater bane is a +3, vorpal is a +5. Why should a +5 holy/greater bane deal more damage than a +5 vorpal? They're both +10 weapons.

Your comparing a combination of 2 effects to a single one.

A Crippling weapon of Tendon Slice 10% is what.. +12? DOes less "Damage" than both by a long shot... the "+" of the weapon is not an indication of usefulness or Damage.

[DragonMageT]

basically useless...too bad some wasted plat on high crit banishers.

the big 5 are pretty much dead, although paralyzers still work when someone uses them...

^This. Vorpals are just junk weapons now. You are better off with Lit2 or other type of weapons.

Just one more hit to the TWF DPS toons and even more reason to make THF only toons now.
There is balance for you! I just love those balance attempts by the devs that end up unintentionally or intentionally shifting advantages away from one style of play.

VOD Norm Devils, good luck on using vorpals on them. Shroud same thing.
It was very entertaining trying to kill those devils in Norm VOD, they took forever.

I had some very nice vorpals and banishers that will be banked now...Sad panda

[Chai]

the reason they did this to disruptors, banishers, smiters, and vorpals was to effectively take them out of the game. They are mostly just a 'extra' damage weapon if you happen to have one that also breaks DR somehow...

basically useless...too bad some wasted plat on high crit banishers.

the big 5 are pretty much dead, although paralyzers still work when someone uses them...

On the plus side, TWFers have a ton of back space now since they can get rid of 4 sets of useless weapons...8 backpack slots..so, bright side of the cloud I guess

Also have to keep in mind that some previously useless weapons now have a use.

All those holy smiters are now great portal beaters.

Banishing of pure good is a great DPS weapon to run vale stuff with.

Holy disruption is a great undead beater.

Alot of the higher ML disruptors, banishers, and smiters that used to be vendored now have some value where they previously did not.

Vorpal of pure good with icy burst on it is still a great weapon to run most leveling content with ona first life toon.

[Pikeman]

Mobs with over 1000 hit points are few and far between until you get to true End game quests.. and even then, you often dont see 1k until you hit hard and even elite difficulties.

I'm not sure what your definition of "end game" is but there's plenty of 1000hp+ mobs out there in what I would consider mid to high level.

I am completely certain that the frost giants in Aussircaex's Valley (level 17 area that allows character's as low as level 13) have way more than 1000. When running the valley (solo) it takes almost as long to beat down some of those giants as it does to beat down a training dummy (which has 10,000 hps IIRC).

I've yet to run any epics, but I expect epic mobs to be rather tougher than those in the Reaver's explorer areas.

As for the question at hand, though, this is all irrelevant. I'm not a fan of the recent changes to vorpal. HP limits and "consolation vorpal damage" are ridiculous. I think a successful vorpal attack should mean that the mob's head get's separated from its body (i.e., death). Why bother having something called "vorpal" otherwise? However, I also think that the mobs should be designed as though they were equipped as intelligently as the players are (i.e., nothing intelligent that is over CR level 12 should be without full fortification).

[Impaqt]

I'm not sure what your definition of "end game" is but there's plenty of 1000hp+ mobs out there in what I would consider mid to high level.

I am completely certain that the frost giants in Aussircaex's Valley (level 17 area that allows character's as low as level 13) have way more than 1000. When running the valley (solo) it takes almost as long to beat down some of those giants as it does to beat down a training dummy (which has 10,000 hps IIRC).

and you NEVER vorpaled them anyway.... They have always been warded.

I've yet to run any epics, but I expect epic mobs to be rather tougher than those in the Reaver's explorer areas.

As for the question at hand, though, this is all irrelevant. I'm not a fan of the recent changes to vorpal. HP limits and "consolation vorpal damage" are ridiculous. I think a successful vorpal attack should mean that the mob's head get's separated from its body (i.e., death). Why bother having something called "vorpal" otherwise? However, I also think that the mobs should be designed as though they were equipped as intelligently as the players are (i.e., nothing intelligent that is over CR level 12 should be without full fortification).

So you think they should all have Heavy fort, but they all should NOT have Deathblock?

[Thar]

Neither do I, but 1000 HP is too low.

I don't see why a GS weapon that you can make yourself should be more powerful than the most feared weapon in the pnp game.