Raise the Vorpal Thershold above 1000 HP

[grodon9999]

I'm not quite sure what the number should be but 1000 HP feels too low. Bad-builds with junk gear will put out 1000 points of damage in less than 20 swings. Even good vorpals like the fully-upgraded Brigand's Cutlass aren't worth using as the insta-kill procs so rarely you're better off with lightnings.

I guess if you don't have GS yet vorpals are fine but if you've got lightnings/ESoS already it doesn't look like there's any point in using them from what I've observed in the past few days.

I don't think they should kill a non-deathwarded target regardless of HP, vorping that 76,000 HP giant in claw would be silly but 1000 HP is too low of a threshold. Not sure what the right number is, but that's too low.

[Synthetic]

Lit 2 should be better then a vorpal it's more difficult to obtain.

[Impaqt]

Mobs with over 1000 hit points are few and far between until you get to true End game quests.. and even then, you often dont see 1k until you hit hard and even elite difficulties.

Sorry, but I see no reason why a ML10 Weapon should be instant win in Raids or Elite Amrath Quests....

Vorpals were used extensively on mobs with fewer that 1000 hit points before the change. dps hasnt changed much....

[grodon9999]

Sorry, but I see no reason why a ML10 Weapon should be instant win in Raids or Elite Amrath Quests....

Neither do I, but 1000 HP is too low.

[Thar]

Neither do I, but 1000 HP is too low.

I don't see why a GS weapon that you can make yourself should be more powerful than the most feared weapon in the pnp game.

[Impaqt]

I don't see why a GS weapon that you can make yourself should be more powerful than the most feared weapon in the pnp game.

Vorpals are quite nice in PnP, but far from "The" Most feared and powerful weapon.

You can also craft a vorpal in PnP...

[kernal42]

I agree that vorpals need a buff based soley on the following argument:

LitII is now better than an epic chaosblade in every* situation.

Cheers,
Kernal

*Okay, so eChaosblade is better vs elite devil raid bosses when slotted with a devil's ruin augment.

[EyeRekon]

What if the Vorpal threshold would raise with the + enhancement on the weapon?

Maybe like

• +1 Vorpal = 250 max hp, +25 dmg on 20 (ML:10 or 8 w/ RR)
• +2 Vorpal = 500, + 50 dmg on 20
• +3 Vorpal = 750, + 75 dmg on 20
• +4 Vorpal = 1000, + 100 dmg on 20
• +5 Vorpal = 1250-1500, + 125-150 dmg on 20
• +6 Vorpal (Red slot Epic weapon) = 2000, +200 dmg on 20

In other words Vorpal opens up a way to instakill, but how effective it is depends on the strength of the magical enchantment. Presumably at the ML in which you could wield it, the weapon would work semi-flawlessly for level-appropriate content. So if ML:10 then maybe you could expect to vorpal CR:10 without trouble. Using ML:10 Vorpal weapon on CR:14 should not work as well as an ML:14 +3 Vorpal.

Makes sense, right?

[BurnerD]

Regular Vorpal - Cuts your head off just a little bit

Epic Vorpal - Cuts off your head lots more.....

[Khurse]

1000 is fine.
Vorpals- even the "Epic Vorpal" (ie Brigands cutlass) are too easy to obtain to need to make them more effective.

Nobody said Vorpals were supposed to be the best weapon to take into Epics.

[moops]

I think that they should just not work in EPics, and leave them as they were for the rest of the game. It gave us variety, and variety in strategy.

I carried Min 2, Lit 2, TTS, Trip Positives, Vorpals, and chose which ever ones were best for the quest--I only used Vorpals in a few places--and really, I think that as soon as most people crafted greensteel they stopped using vorpals even where they were best suited, so Im not even sure what the issue was with Vorpals. As soon as I crafted Greensteel I stopped using banishers, and reg disruptors, tho the Trip pos disruption never seems to go off.

What I see now is that I will just be carrying 2 weapon sets on my Tempest and my Kensai. I don't think that does much for variety of game. I see myself using Lit 2 for 99% of the content that I run. So many changes have made many of the specialty weapons that I have pretty worthless.

[moops]

Thinking about it, back b4 greensteel the people I ran with still rarely used vorpals, as it was faster just to DPS the Mobs down--or at least that is how it was with the people that I ran with--just like now, there were only a few places where one might use a vorpal, like the 3rd hallway in a Relic of a Sovreign Past. And then we moved into the whole W/P thing.

Did they make the changes to the Vorpals, Smiters, Banishers, and Disruptors to get more people to craft? I jsut cant believe that these weapons were being abused. The weapons were barely used as it is (by people and pugs I run with) but I can see if you craft something and its just another added thing, they would be viewed more as possible added DPS.

[Ebuddy]

So now it's all about DPS and pure strength, tricked-out-to-the-max DPS toons. The min-max-grinders are happy 'cause they never used a variety of situational weapons anyhow.

Lest we remember that a vorpal still needed to be a *confirmed* critical anyhow.

So for we casual players, yet one more change that makes the game more difficult for us. Hit the LFM for a VoD normal just this past weekend. Leader wanted link to weps. I linked my LitII and my +4 seeker silver of PG. He replied that (I was on my rogue) my DPS would be too low and that if I had 2 LitIIs, he'd probably let me in.

This may be just antecdotal now but with the change to casters, it's all gonna be about max-DPS builds only, everyone else need not apply.

[Illiain]

Sorry, but I see no reason why a ML10 Weapon should be instant win in Raids or Elite Amrath Quests....

Vorpals were used extensively on mobs with fewer that 1000 hit points before the change. dps hasnt changed much....

Holy is a +2 base price modifier, greater bane is a +3, vorpal is a +5. Why should a +5 holy/greater bane deal more damage than a +5 vorpal? They're both +10 weapons.

[Diyon]

Holy is a +2 base price modifier, greater bane is a +3, vorpal is a +5. Why should a +5 holy/greater bane deal more damage than a +5 vorpal? They're both +10 weapons.

Greater bane is situational damage. So is vorpal! It does more damage to than that combo to monsters with less than 1000 hp! =P

[Impaqt]

Holy is a +2 base price modifier, greater bane is a +3, vorpal is a +5. Why should a +5 holy/greater bane deal more damage than a +5 vorpal? They're both +10 weapons.

Your comparing a combination of 2 effects to a single one.

A Crippling weapon of Tendon Slice 10% is what.. +12? DOes less "Damage" than both by a long shot... the "+" of the weapon is not an indication of usefulness or Damage.

[Pikeman]

Mobs with over 1000 hit points are few and far between until you get to true End game quests.. and even then, you often dont see 1k until you hit hard and even elite difficulties.

I'm not sure what your definition of "end game" is but there's plenty of 1000hp+ mobs out there in what I would consider mid to high level.

I am completely certain that the frost giants in Aussircaex's Valley (level 17 area that allows character's as low as level 13) have way more than 1000. When running the valley (solo) it takes almost as long to beat down some of those giants as it does to beat down a training dummy (which has 10,000 hps IIRC).

I've yet to run any epics, but I expect epic mobs to be rather tougher than those in the Reaver's explorer areas.

As for the question at hand, though, this is all irrelevant. I'm not a fan of the recent changes to vorpal. HP limits and "consolation vorpal damage" are ridiculous. I think a successful vorpal attack should mean that the mob's head get's separated from its body (i.e., death). Why bother having something called "vorpal" otherwise? However, I also think that the mobs should be designed as though they were equipped as intelligently as the players are (i.e., nothing intelligent that is over CR level 12 should be without full fortification).

[Impaqt]

I'm not sure what your definition of "end game" is but there's plenty of 1000hp+ mobs out there in what I would consider mid to high level.

I am completely certain that the frost giants in Aussircaex's Valley (level 17 area that allows character's as low as level 13) have way more than 1000. When running the valley (solo) it takes almost as long to beat down some of those giants as it does to beat down a training dummy (which has 10,000 hps IIRC).

and you NEVER vorpaled them anyway.... They have always been warded.

I've yet to run any epics, but I expect epic mobs to be rather tougher than those in the Reaver's explorer areas.

As for the question at hand, though, this is all irrelevant. I'm not a fan of the recent changes to vorpal. HP limits and "consolation vorpal damage" are ridiculous. I think a successful vorpal attack should mean that the mob's head get's separated from its body (i.e., death). Why bother having something called "vorpal" otherwise? However, I also think that the mobs should be designed as though they were equipped as intelligently as the players are (i.e., nothing intelligent that is over CR level 12 should be without full fortification).

So you think they should all have Heavy fort, but they all should NOT have Deathblock?

[Pikeman]

and you NEVER vorpaled them anyway.... They have always been warded.


So you think they should all have Heavy fort, but they all should NOT have Deathblock?

I didn't say any of that. I spoke about fort only.

[Impaqt]

I didn't say any of that. I spoke about fort only.

Of course not.. But its a logical conclusion for me to make based on your comments, dont you think?

You want Vorpals to work on 1000+ hit point mobs.. But you think they should have Heavy Fort. If you think they should have Heavy fort, why dontyou think they should have Deathblock? a Much lower "+" pretty common item enhancement...