AM specialization post U9

[Kyln]

Which school(s) do you think are the best and why now that U9 is live?

I ask this as I have been working on retooling my WF wiz/rog and I have noticed a lot of different and even conflicting opinions on the state of AM since the update.

Some points to help get discussion started.

Evocation- do the nerfs make it no longer viable for content pre-epic, or does it still work?
Enchanment- did the hit to Mass Hold and Hypnotism change the way an AM should spec for enchant?
Necromancy- is this the new king for all content, starting pre lvl 20 and through epics? If so, what SLA's of any?

[ellamonster]

I have a level 18 AM:Evocation I took all the kinetic enhancements and he absolutely rocks. The kinetic enhancements help his disintegrate too, regularly seeing hits of 890 and I am not geared out at all.

[voodoogroves]

I've got an inkling of an idea for a next-life on one of my toons as a Transmuter/Evoker. Warforged, spec'ing force and repair plus the first level of enough of the others to power various DoTs adequately.

SF Evocation
GSF Evocation
SF Transmuation
GSF Transmutation
Toughness
PL Wizard
Mental Toughness

Maximize
Empower
Extend
Quicken
Heighten

[bashemgud]

I really like the force line. You get a high dmg single target untyped dmg ray (disintegrate) as well as a strong AOE (Ice storm). Missile spells are also very strong when chain cast between SLAs and spells, even more with arcane initiate.

Also, as much as necromancy seems to be so useful now, the SLAs are useless. Enervation could be useful I guess, but the amount of spell points you lose to get it is huge. The real beauty with AM and taking Greater Spell Focus is being able to use the SLAs of the corresponding school. I believe 4 schools have good SLAs options : enchantment, conjuration, evocation and transmutation.

GSF necro is good for the +1 DC, and that's about it.

[bashemgud]

...
Evocation- do the nerfs make it no longer viable for content pre-epic, or does it still work?
Enchanment- did the hit to Mass Hold and Hypnotism change the way an AM should spec for enchant?
Necromancy- is this the new king for all content, starting pre lvl 20 and through epics? If so, what SLA's of any?

Hypnotism got a upgrade imo, simply because of the -3 to will saves it now gives.

[Hesterre]

I hit 18 right after the update on my WF Evoker. I had loved the SLA line up until that point but I had already began to see it becoming less potent. It is tremendous for soloing IMO but I had planned to repec Enchantment anyway due to the content from 18-20. Running with parties more now, I find that I can contribute more through crowd control than with the force SLA line. Sure from about 12-16 dolling out 600-900 damage while spending (pre-update) 8 sp was killer, but so is stopping a stronger mob in its tracks and letting the horc with a big green axe kill them even faster than my chain missles could have.

I was also in the habit of running with max/emp always on; because of the SLA's this becomes trickier now with the other high level spells following the force line. Max/Emp meteor storms get expensive in a hurry especially for a SP challenged Archmage IV spec'd evoker. Another U9 drawback, at least for WF, is the separation of force and repair. Although this might not be as bad as it seemed at first to me because of the flexibility it now gives us. Another positive for AM evokers is we gained a free feat in a way...enlarged chain missiles were awesome, but now we don't need the feat.

On to enchanter. I followed the enchant/conjur suggestions of some CC builds, only taking the first two SLAs of each gives me more SP than I had as an evoker and I can spam hypnotize quickly followed by webs, what gets thru that gets to dance to a heightened Otto's for 6 SP. I love it, I honestly hardly bother with mass hold now that its not insta crit, with heighten always on and the hyp/dance/web trio so effective its a waste of SP. I run with heighten always on and throw a ball if it takes the party longer than a couple webs to kill a mob. I keep max on most of the time because when the party actually needs me to kill something it needs to be done quickly.

I'm loving it although as you can imagine it has been quite an adjustment. I first tried it out in Vale, and sure enough I could stop mobs in an instant but then I found myself wondering how to kill them lol. My good old MM/bolt/chain clickies were gone! I've since adjusted. This enchanter is still viable for soloing as well although it takes a lot longer than my evoker did, its been a while since I had Masters Touch in my book

I've absolutely no interest in the necro line... pre or post update. If I did I wouldn't be a WF and I wouldn't be a AM. IMO the update changes some things for the archmages but there are pros and cons (gosh I miss extend). The devs gave us more flexibility and are pretty much forcing us to be very specialized or very generalized. I tend to like that approach as cookie cutter wizzies are about as appealing as cookie cutter McMansions.

[Kyln]

Interesting. Some advocacy of evocation, conjuration, and enchant, but no love for necromancy.

How would an evocation/enchantment combination work then. Damage and CC?

I am surprised at the enchant/conj suggestion. Is the discount to web and the increased DC worth it? It would seem from someone who hasn't tested it that web is already fairly inexpensive.

[Bardgellor]

"I am surprised at the enchant/conj suggestion. Is the discount to web and the increased DC worth it? It would seem from someone who hasn't tested it that web is already fairly inexpensive. "

Not when you heighten your web 7 levels (28-35 mana) so that it sticks to high level mobs.

[Qezuzu]

Enchanment- did the hit to Mass Hold and Hypnotism change the way an AM should spec for enchant?

Not at all. Enchantment is still the king of CC; Necro is also very close but it targets a save that is usually higher (fort), but which is better if you have a very high DC (outright killing a mob is a form of controling them).

Some say hypno got buffed with the -3 to will, but the way I used it, it got severely nerfed. I used it on harder, more SP intensive quests: SLA hypno, then single-target SLA resistable dance for supreme SP conservation.

[Hesterre]

The ench/conj idea came from NoidRoid's epic CC build - The Controller - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=281875.

I checked and a heightened web at 18 would cost me 50 SP, so yeah its well worth it. If I still wanted to keep my Evoker SLA's while picking up some CC, I think I'd take conjuration vice enchant. Web gets along much better with chain missiles than hypnotize and is the better cc spell for far more situations. The down side would be loosing Otto's Resistible, which while heightened tends to be virtually irresistible

Or you could take all three: 4 feats and a net -75 spell points (I think on first calcs) would get you MM, Chain Missiles, Hypno, and web. Playing it would be straightforward, all metas all the time. That could be a nice soloing combo. Cast hypno, follow with a web or two, and start firing off missiles. Fitting the feats might be tricky though, but I guess extend is no longer a must have so I suppose it could be done.

[bashemgud]

The ench/conj idea came from NoidRoid's epic CC build - The Controller - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=281875.

I checked and a heightened web at 18 would cost me 50 SP, so yeah its well worth it. If I still wanted to keep my Evoker SLA's while picking up some CC, I think I'd take conjuration vice enchant. Web gets along much better with chain missiles than hypnotize and is the better cc spell for far more situations. The down side would be loosing Otto's Resistible, which while heightened tends to be virtually irresistible

Or you could take all three: 4 feats and a net -75 spell points (I think on first calcs) would get you MM, Chain Missiles, Hypno, and web. Playing it would be straightforward, all metas all the time. That could be a nice soloing combo. Cast hypno, follow with a web or two, and start firing off missiles. Fitting the feats might be tricky though, but I guess extend is no longer a must have so I suppose it could be done.

This.
Enchantment/evocation/conjuration and you get all the useful SLAs this way. It's also the best way to take advantage of the free metas also. i just dropped toughness and I save some precious AP this way.

[Kyln]

This.
Enchantment/evocation/conjuration and you get all the useful SLAs this way. It's also the best way to take advantage of the free metas also. i just dropped toughness and I save some precious AP this way.

I didn't even know that you could do SLA's from three schools. Interesting idea.

[fluffybunnywilson]

Interesting. Some advocacy of evocation, conjuration, and enchant, but no love for necromancy.

I would guess that's because Necromancy AM's usually have a sickly purple glow that trails behind them and can't be healed by positive energy.

I recently switched from AM to PM with the help of the Flawless Syberis Dragonshard I got for 75 Argonessen favor and the free feat respec that I got from the Dragonmark quest.

I'm honestly shocked at how good the Necromancy spells are, even against enemies that have good Fort saves. Even spells that "shouldn't" be good like Circle of Death. In Normal content, it ends up being a Wail of the Banshee that I can throw from across the room even though it allows both a Reflex and a Fort save.

[haku-ba]

I am surprised at the enchant/conj suggestion. Is the discount to web and the increased DC worth it? It would seem from someone who hasn't tested it that web is already fairly inexpensive.

As stated 3sp webs are much nicer than 50sp ones! If you run epics, heightened web is EXTREMELY useful. So much so, that I am thinking of TRing into a conj/necro based AM instead of conj/enchant. Get web dc's as high as possible, then just blow stuff away that is stuck in the the webs while melee is smacking it down for speed as needed. Web is also easy to get a +3 item for (epic chrono), which makes it even nicer

[Maegin]

As stated 3sp webs are much nicer than 50sp ones! If you run epics, heightened web is EXTREMELY useful. So much so, that I am thinking of TRing into a conj/necro based AM instead of conj/enchant. Get web dc's as high as possible, then just blow stuff away that is stuck in the the webs while melee is smacking it down for speed as needed. Web is also easy to get a +3 item for (epic chrono), which makes it even nicer

Not a fan of enchant anymore?

[thegreatneil]

Here is my odd take:

Illusion,evocation,enchantment

Illusion-4 Invis. ,blur, displacement, PK

Evo-3 MM, gust of wind, CM

Enchantment-1 hypno

Both arcane bolt and blast.

yes it eats my SP up, but that doesn't matter does it?

I blame echoes of power for giving me three buffs, four damage, one crowd control and one insta-kill spell i will ALWAYS be able to cast.

All on a half elf with cleric dilettante.

[haku-ba]

Not a fan of enchant anymore?

Let's just say not as much! With the change to mass holds I don't see the reason for using it as much. Epic mobs now go down fast, real fast, so web is enough to let the divine pike through most of the trash encounters. 3sp webs verses 60sp holds that pretty much do the same thing (sure +50% is nice) means I can do whatever I want with the oodles of sp I now have left over. Since the update I have been seeing the casters dominate with damage and instakills, or melee just roll through stuff with DPS. Time is much less a factor now for mitigating damage, so enchantment looses some of its gloss.

[Hesterre]

Here is my odd take:

Illusion,evocation,enchantment

Illusion-4 Invis. ,blur, displacement, PK

Evo-3 MM, gust of wind, CM

Enchantment-1 hypno

Both arcane bolt and blast.

yes it eats my SP up, but that doesn't matter does it?

I blame echoes of power for giving me three buffs, four damage, one crowd control and one insta-kill spell i will ALWAYS be able to cast.

All on a half elf with cleric dilettante.

Nice. Thats definitely an interesting approach! Requires 5 feats + MT right? 6 Feats total. I'd love to see your build and see how you pulled it off.

[thegreatneil]

Nice. Thats definitely an interesting approach! Requires 5 feats + MT right? 6 Feats total. I'd love to see your build and see how you pulled it off.

Keep in mind its a 34pt build. (cus thats what my wiz is, lol)

I'm sure it could be improved, but, meh.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(20 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 192
Spell Points: 1335 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 5
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             11                    11
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence         18                    30
Wisdom               13                    13
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                    10
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         7                    30
Diplomacy             1                    10
Disable Device        n/a                  n/a
Haggle               -1                     6
Heal                  1                     1
Hide                  1                    10
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  2                    11
Listen                1                     1
Move Silently         1                    10
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                4                    10
Search                4                    10
Spot                  3                    12
Swim                  0                     0
Tumble               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

{\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Minos Legens \par Health Belt of Greater False Life \par Clever Goggles \par Rahkir's Sash \par  \par Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 2 (Wizard)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 4 (Wizard)


Level 5 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Initiate


Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Illusion
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Spell Focus: Illusion


Level 16 (Wizard)


Level 17 (Wizard)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Wizard Master of Magic
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante II
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante III
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration III
Enhancement: Improved Concentration IV
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting III
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting IV
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting V
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting VI
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics I
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics II
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics III
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics IV
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics V
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics VI
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
Enhancement: Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Force Manipulation II
Enhancement: Force Manipulation III
Enhancement: Force Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Force Manipulation V
Enhancement: Force Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Force Manipulation VII
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar IV
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence III
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Arcane Blast
Enhancement: Arcane Bolt
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage I
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage II
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage III
Enhancement: Wizard Archmage IV
Enhancement: Archmage Secondary Spell Mastery I: Evocation
Enhancement: Archmage Spell Mastery I: Illusion
Enhancement: Archmage Spell Mastery II: Illusion
Enhancement: Enchantment I - Hypnotism
Enhancement: Evocation I - Magic Missle
Enhancement: Evocation II - Gust of Wind
Enhancement: Evocation III - Chain Missles
Enhancement: Illusion I - Invisibility
Enhancement: Illusion II - Blur
Enhancement: Illusion III - Displacement
Enhancement: Illusion IV - Phantasmal Killer

[Kyln]

This.
Enchantment/evocation/conjuration and you get all the useful SLAs this way. It's also the best way to take advantage of the free metas also. i just dropped toughness and I save some precious AP this way.

I imagine that you would have to have past lives to get the spell penetration high enough to really use these right? I am assuming that you have to take GSF enchant for the DC's, so counting mental toughness that is 5 required feats, and doesn't leave much room for spell pen feats once you take the metas.