Angel of Vengence ToD Sets

[darksol23]

We've been debating whether to add them to ToD or to a future treasure table. There are enough items in ToD currently that we're not sure if we want to expand those tables even more, making it more difficult to get a specific item.

First off, thanks for the response.

IMHO ToD itself is better served by adding them to the ToD loot table. Sure it dilutes the loot tables a little more, but adding 3 to a list of already 30+ isn't that much dilution. Give some incentive for FvS to run ToD other then helping friends get their rings, hording another 100 Shavarath trophies that have no other purpose then the rings (hint hint), and stealing the "melee" rings . And oh yeah, the 20th loot list that you may get a +4 Tome on... (I've personally never gotten a tome on my ToD 20th lists, just bad luck *shrug*)

Guess it's back to rolling on the "melee" rings for the time being...

[Kralael]

Make a bartender UI with a NPC close to the Yuguloth leader:

(Any ToD ring) + (9 Shavarath trophies) = Any ring of your choice.

This way, you still pursue the goal of letting people ''try'' to run ToD to get their ring and not farm some chest only. Even though you can get a party that will pass their whole trophies to someone who doesn'T have his ring yet, I find this acceptable since it encourage team play

Dunno what you guys think 'bout that. Shouldn't be that hard to implement, since u10 will have his bartender UI, u9 had his with the new ''epic-turn-in fire-earth-elemental-thingy-located-in-the-twelve'', I think u10 could also get this bartender UI, since you don't have to make up the loot (beside the Fvs ones).

Whaddaya think ?

[suszterpatt]

The ToD ring loot table is overpopulated with too many undesired rings. Unless you add some feature where you can turn in any ring + trophies of war + greater shard for another ring, please don't dilute the loot tables further. It's already painful enough trying to get the ring you want today. Adding more ring sets for current and upcoming PrEs would just exacerbate the problem and not make anyone happy.

I like this idea, but how would you determine which ring you want? There are only 36 different types of shards (6 element types * 3 dom/esc/opp * 2 eth/mat). Assuming that at some point each class will have 3 PrEs, that's only enough for 12 classes. Not a lot of room for additions.

[Jahmin]

We've been debating whether to add them to ToD or to a future treasure table. There are enough items in ToD currently that we're not sure if we want to expand those tables even more, making it more difficult to get a specific item.

^ this

[Asketes]

The ToD ring loot table is overpopulated with too many undesired rings. Unless you add some feature where you can turn in any ring + trophies of war + greater shard for another ring, please don't dilute the loot tables further. It's already painful enough trying to get the ring you want today. Adding more ring sets for current and upcoming PrEs would just exacerbate the problem and not make anyone happy.

We've been debating whether to add them to ToD or to a future treasure table. There are enough items in ToD currently that we're not sure if we want to expand those tables even more, making it more difficult to get a specific item.

What about adjusting the current ring sets that people are forced to settle with? Since more than half of the rings are, no offense, utter garbage. They either don't offer anything to the builds they were originally designed for, or they are so half-fastly built that only part of the rings really benefit the intended user.


prime example:
Kyrian's Band - Ring: Charisma +6 Charisma +6: This item makes the wearer have more flair, granting a 6 enhancement bonus to Charisma., Exceptional Strength +1, Fire Savant Set Bonus,

make the potency bonuses stack and change the useless exceptional strength to either con or cha.

These should be very useful items, not paltry garage sale items.

It's early and I need my coffee. Eladrin, sorry if the above came off a bit jerk-esque

[ProdigalGuru]

Isn't there something else that could be taken OFF the loot list, so that adding new rings doesn't actually dilute it?

There is another new class coming, and IT is going to need ToD sets, as well.

[Eladiun]

Oh jesus christ you nit-picky person. How's this? The 20th reward list always includes all three rings from the class that you have the most number of levels in and then another random number of rings from the other classes

Screw the fact that other sets work better for other classes than the ones intended. That's what your 20 runs of the quest were for, to have a chance at those other rings.

Also screw trading rings with some other additional cost too. Turbine wants us to grind. Long live the grind!

1) Please don't use my given name on the forums.

2) I'm not nitpicky. I would rather further dilute the loot table and lower the odds of getting the ring I want than be forced into some artificial by class mechanic. For the love of my father, have you see the pre-built paths the devs created. It's obvious many (with exceptions) don't play on high level or understand what is a valuable item for a particular class. The last thing we need is them pigeon holing the 20th based on some ridiculous criteria.

3) It's obvious you don't play at that level either if you think that in 20 runs everyone gets the rings they want. Even in the perfect world of all guild runs this doesn't happen. Some rings are popular and some are vendor trash. Your idea is bad. It would make things worse not better.

Give the full ring list on 20 or build in a trade in mechanic.

[tihocan]

We've been debating whether to add them to ToD or to a future treasure table. There are enough items in ToD currently that we're not sure if we want to expand those tables even more, making it more difficult to get a specific item.

What about you add the Angel of Vengeance rings, but also:
- increase drop rates in the raid
- increase the choice of rings on 20th completion (only 30-ish% of getting the ring we want is sad)
- let us override a ring effect with another one if we want to change (it is currently a real PITA to update a ring, since you need to farm ToD again withtout your first ring - due to the exclusive flag)

[Yaga_Nub]

1) Please don't use my given name on the forums.

2) I'm not nitpicky. I would rather further dilute the loot table and lower the odds of getting the ring I want than be forced into some artificial by class mechanic. For the love of my father, have you see the pre-built paths the devs created. It's obvious many (with exceptions) don't play on high level or understand what is a valuable item for a particular class. The last thing we need is them pigeon holing the 20th based on so ridiculous criteria.

3) It's obvious you don't play at that level either if you think that in 20 runs everyone gets the rings they want. Even in the perfect world of all guild runs this doesn't happen. Some rings are popular and some are vendor trash. Your idea is bad. It would make things worse not better.

Give the full ring list on 20 or build in a trade in mechanic.

It's obvious that you have a very limited ability to reason so let me spell it out in very easy terms to understand using very small words.

There are people that don't get the ring they want after 100 runs just like people still don't have a SOS after 100 runs of the VoN6. Right now there is no guaranteed raid loot for anyone in the game. My revised suggestion, if implemented, would make it so that there would at least be a guarantee for the rings available for your class which would make things better not worse. It would also still have some random shots at other rings. All in all a good, not excellent, but good compromise.

On another note, there really just needs to be a complete redesign of the ToD rings. The rings should be useful to the PrE that they are designed for AND they should only be usable by toons with at least the first tier of the PrE. It's a shame to see Fighters rolling on monk sets and barb sets because there's no useful fighter set bonuses. It's also a shame that Wizards get +6/+1 Int rings while Sorcs are shafted by the additional stat on their rings. It's almost if Eladrin was designing items for the first time in his Turbine career and he just put bonuses and stats on the rings because they sounded cool instead of analyzing each PrE to determine set bonuses and stats that would have a meaningful boost to the PrEs.

Finally, if jesus christ is your name then you must be my son. So obey your father, remember to look both ways when you cross the street, don't take candy from strangers, and when you see armed guards coming for you, run. I already raised you once, I'm not doing it again.

[Illiain]

TR'ing is not the devs problem.

Again, you're running the quest 20 times before you get the 20th End Reward list. That 20th list should be about what's good for the toon who ran the 20 ToDs, not some future toon that you may or may not TR into.

I never said it was the dev's problem, neither should it be their responsibility to solve ours by limiting rewards based on entirely on class. It would be even worse if you ran it 20 times and would never have a chance to pull the ring you wanted because the end reward was based entirely on your class.

With that many named items, perhaps we need a single choice of a multichest pull. Give us a choice of looting a single chest out of three. Each chest will have rewards based on classes. (melee, specialist, caster) This way a wizard could pull from the melee chest if they were hoping for an Encrusted ring, or a rogue could pull from the caster chest if they wanted an Int ring to use for swaping in to do traps.

This would also have the benefit of allowing classes that actually want their class based rings to get a better chance to get one without a watered down named item list.

[Avidus]

I think we need to stop and ask some basic questions before we move any further.

1a) How many runs do the devs consider to be an appropriate number to get your ring / rings?
1b) With the current drop rate is this number feasible?
1c) Is the 20th completion reward mechanism factored in to total number of appropriate runs? Or is it a 'bonus' chance?

2a) How would the above numbers look if you added 3 more rings (FvS) or 6 more (FvS and New class)?
2b) Would just upping the drop rates be able to keep the appropriate number of runs acceptable?
2c) Would their need to be an alternate ring source added to the game?

If the answer to 2c is yes then more questions need to be answered.
3a) Would adding rings to sulo's chest be acceptable?
3b) Would a turn in X for a list of rings be acceptable?
3c) Would a turn in Y for the exact ring you want be acceptable?
3d) Could these be balanced in such a way as to not change the appropriate number of runs too much?

Some other questions I had:
Will all of the racial prestiges be getting rings as well?
Is it necessary to include all of the prestige's in the game in ToD or can a new raid be added that has the new rings?
If a new raid was added how would the rings be distributed? Class X in ToD class Y in the new one or would it simply be another shot at aquiring the desired ring whil on ToD timer?
Would everyone Devs / Players be ok with a trade in type system that essentially guarantees a player THE ring they want after X number of runs?

Just some thoughts I had while reading this thread.

[Yaga_Nub]

....

Some other questions I had: ....
Will all of the racial prestiges be getting rings as well?
......

Boy I hope not. It's already a chore to slot rings right now.

[Yaga_Nub]

...

With that many named items, perhaps we need a single choice of a multichest pull. Give us a choice of looting a single chest out of three. Each chest will have rewards based on classes. (melee, specialist, caster) This way a wizard could pull from the melee chest if they were hoping for an Encrusted ring, or a rogue could pull from the caster chest if they wanted an Int ring to use for swaping in to do traps.

This would also have the benefit of allowing classes that actually want their class based rings to get a better chance to get one without a watered down named item list.

I like this suggestion because it's always fun to open chests.

[Angelus_dead]

We've been debating whether to add them to ToD or to a future treasure table. There are enough items in ToD currently that we're not sure if we want to expand those tables even more, making it more difficult to get a specific item.

There are ways to add AOV sets to TOD without expanding the loot table.

You could pick one of the Cleric / Paladin TOD sets and add AOV bonuses to it in addition to the existing set bonus.

[LeLoric]

We've been debating whether to add them to ToD or to a future treasure table. There are enough items in ToD currently that we're not sure if we want to expand those tables even more, making it more difficult to get a specific item.

Adding them to future content though would further dilute that content.

Sure it would make the tod lists pretty large but accomodate by expanding 20th reward lists by a few more and possible tweaking drop rates slightly.

[Renegade66]

How about just adding all rings to the 20th reward list. That's 40 runs to get both of your rings. I think 4 months of keeping your toon on timer is plenty of grinding. I'm currently over 50 runs for 1 ring, so can personally confirm the grindiness of the effort.

[bobbryan2]

We've been debating whether to add them to ToD or to a future treasure table. There are enough items in ToD currently that we're not sure if we want to expand those tables even more, making it more difficult to get a specific item.

Change the 20th so that it lists about 55% of the possible rings every time, and that would be a start. A double chance to pull rings in your primary class wouldn't be a bad method either.

[Calebro]

What about this?

Ring in your possession + deconstructed craftable shard of power + random collectable(s) + (x) trophies of war + the belt/necklace corresponding to the new ring you desire = the ring you desire

However, the barter UI is *ONLY* open and available for 24 hours after completion of a multiple of twenty.
That involves a little grind, uses materials that make sense, gets the desired result, and isn't available at all times, making it a kind of a reward in itself.

Whatcha think?

[LeLoric]

Making more of the ring sets viable would be nice too. Especially for the tier two bonuses. Many of the prestige classes with tier three set bonuses right now don't even want thier own set.

A wider variety of useful rings would not make the loot list feel so watered down. It's quite frustrating to see 2-3 rings drop and noone in the group wants one in a really class diverse party.

[Lifespawn]

TR'ing is not the devs problem.

Again, you're running the quest 20 times before you get the 20th End Reward list. That 20th list should be about what's good for the toon who ran the 20 ToDs, not some future toon that you may or may not TR into.

not a good idea while it would work for a cookie cutter build any variation outside of the current class structure would be put at a disadvantage when getting a ring they need.


We need to make getting the ring you need easier not harder and putting all 3 rings of your specific class would just make it worse leaving you only 7 possible rings to choose from because they 3 for your class would be there every time.