Puzzles should be optional for quest completion

[RJBsComputer]

I believe the puzzle in Enter the Kobold, the one you dislike, is the one where you have to light all of the floor tiles to lower the barrier so you can move on. The only problem is that all the floor tiles are sealed off in individle barrier walled rooms. On the ground is a set of crystals that teleport you to another section of the room. Well if this is the "PUZZLE" you hate, then you never really look at how you move through the room. It is simple based on how a knight moves across the chessboard. Which means it really isn't a puzzle at all but a test of player's intelligence.

As pointed out, there are plenty of other options for you to take to reach 20th level. Do not impose your wants onto everyone else. Just because you don't like quests with solve this "puzzle" to move forward, doesn't mean everyone agrues with we. Besides that, finishing that quest helps to unlock the way for you to get DT armor, and that should not be easy.

[SisAmethyst]

I believe the puzzle in Enter the Kobold, the one you dislike, is the one where you have to light all of the floor tiles to lower the barrier so you can move on. The only problem is that all the floor tiles are sealed off in individle barrier walled rooms. On the ground is a set of crystals that teleport you to another section of the room. Well if this is the "PUZZLE" you hate, then you never really look at how you move through the room. It is simple based on how a knight moves across the chessboard. Which means it really isn't a puzzle at all but a test of player's intelligence.

As pointed out, there are plenty of other options for you to take to reach 20th level. Do not impose your wants onto everyone else. Just because you don't like quests with solve this "puzzle" to move forward, doesn't mean everyone agrues with we. Besides that, finishing that quest helps to unlock the way for you to get DT armor, and that should not be easy.

Hehe, well, I guess most puzzles are some kind of intelligence/logic test But yes, I am certain it is the chessboard puzzle with the optional chest. And I agree that the DT shouldn't be an easy button and they already turned down that quest a lot (specifically the endboss).

[cdemeritt]

next you will want to be able to go through VOD while in a cheerleader outfit attacking sulu with Pom Poms

If those Pom Poms are +6 Holy Silver of Greater Evil Outsider Bane, I'd say go for it

[whitehawk74]

I want more puzzles and a bigger variety and I want them to be randomized all the time. It's not really a puzzle if its the same every time. (eg: the pit).

Puzzles promotes teamwork and communication and brains... yes, thinking and solving.

Puzzle solving is a big part of AD&D and I love them.

/not signed.

[Mr.Delightful]

hummm

Selfish. You don't like something, so you want never to have to do it. As various people have pointed out, that's no different from saying 'I don't like fighting, so all fighting should be optional'..

I am not selfish. I am far from the only one who plays and enjoys DDO but dislikes puzzles; my suggestion is for the benefit of the DDO community as a whole, which is composed of people who may or may not frequent the forums.

It's because you are asking for DDO to be changed to minimise a specific one of the many aspects of the game. Now, DDO is a game of variety; variety in builds, variety in roles and spell effects, and variety in quests. That means it has something for everyone, because everyone enjoys different things. What you are trying to do is prioritise combat over puzzles; and then being surprised when the people who enjoy puzzles object

As it is, we have a lot of quests that require combat, a few quests that require timing and acrobatics, and a few quests that require puzzles. And of the well over two hundred quests in this game you managed to name, what, half a dozen that really frustrate you? I'd say that shows a pretty good balance on the part of the devs, myself....

Combat is already prioritized over puzzles, for a reason. I doubt DDO would be doing well (or even still be around) if combat instead took a backseat to puzzles. For example, contrast the successfulness of Online RPGs to Online Puzzles games (PPGS?). Also, you can avoid much of the combat in the game via use of stealth and/or invisibility if you truly dislike combat so much, though I do doubt anyone who so hates combat would play DDO at all (considering its action RPG style combat).

(Below posted to show what Ceiswyn was reacting to)

Additionally, I hate the puzzles that function as a sort of "combat intermission" (like Shroud part 3, Enter the Kobold, The Crucible, etc) that slams the momentum of the quest right into a brick wall. Its like the DM is popping in and saying "Hey, you're having lots of fun playing an action RPG right? Here's some Myst! Enjoy!

I love the change of pace.

Why don't you go through all your posts, mentally change 'puzzles' to 'combat' and vice versa. Now; how do you feel about that as a suggestion? Because that's basically what you've asked to do to us.!

As I mentioned above, a method existed for bypassing much of the combat in the game; via use of stealth and/or invisibility. While you cannot avoid all the fighting, I would guess that the vast majority of the DDO playerbase would not want to! I greatly suspect that it is the fighting that most of the playerbase comes for, a prospect that is uncomfortable for some people.

[ceiswyn]

I am not selfish. I am far from the only one who plays and enjoys DDO but dislikes puzzles; my suggestion is for the benefit of the DDO community as a whole, which is composed of people who may or may not frequent the forums.

However, unless you believe that puzzle-lovers are over-represented on the forums for some reason, the reaction here strongly suggests that your view is in more of a minority than you assumed.

The reasonable response to this discovery, by the way, is to go 'oh, well if everyone else likes puzzles, then fair enough, it was just a thought', not to appeal to a fictitious silent majority who agree with you.

Also, you can avoid much of the combat in the game via use of stealth and/or invisibility if you truly dislike combat so much

There speaks someone who hasn't tried it

In any case, you are arguing against a specific detail rather than addressing the point that I and others have made. As a matter of fact, I don't hate combat; I enjoy combat and puzzles both. I was attempting to explain why your idea is so unpopular in terms that might make sense to you. Did you try the mental experiment of turning things around? Did you dislike it, even though combat would still be there for people who liked combat, just as you suggested for puzzles?

I greatly suspect that it is the fighting that most of the playerbase comes for, a prospect that is uncomfortable for some people.

If it were just fighting I wanted I'd be playing WoW. DDO's unique selling proposition is its variety; fighting, puzzles, jumping, crafting. Anything that hampers that variety is a bad thing for the game in general, however nice individuals might find it. For the benefit of the community as a whole, who from what I can see here appear to rather like the occasional mental challenge, it's quite obvious that puzzles should be kept in the mainstream of the game, not sidelined in favour of simple hack'n'slash.

[KillEveryone]

hummm


I am not selfish. I am far from the only one who plays and enjoys DDO but dislikes puzzles; my suggestion is for the benefit of the DDO community as a whole, which is composed of people who may or may not frequent the forums.

What makes you think you are in the majority though?

This so called "benefit" will also harm the community as a whole because you are asking for quests to be designed without having to do a puzzle and there are puzzle lovers in the game.

I would also say that it is a selfish request unless you can prove that your view is the same as the majority of the community.

As I mentioned above, a method existed for bypassing much of the combat in the game; via use of stealth and/or invisibility. While you cannot avoid all the fighting, I would guess that the vast majority of the DDO playerbase would not want to! I greatly suspect that it is the fighting that most of the playerbase comes for, a prospect that is uncomfortable for some people.

I do like the fighting but it isn't all fighting. I like the puzzles and would like to see a lot more. Mindlessly slaughtering stuff is boring and I want something else in there to make me think about what I need to do.

[Tarragon12]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that puzzles won't ever be part of the critical path! It's simply a matter of catering to a larger audience. We want to cater to the people who love puzzles, and we don't want to leave the people who don't like them in the dust.

Personally, I'm one of the people who love puzzles, and love to see levels where puzzles play a prominent role.

You should stop trying to capture the whole world. This is a niche mmo and will never be anything else. The way, its now, trying to dumb down the combat system and get away from ddo rules is wrong already, but even considering dropping puzzles? There is WOW and other more simpler games for people who don't like puzzles. They will be happy there, with challenges on their level (as in none). This mmo should not be for them.

[Tarragon12]

I don't like puzzles, but I realize some do. What I really hate are puzzles that force me to go through them to complete the quest. I was just going through "Enter the Kobold" today, and I was reminded how much puzzles really ruin large parts of the game for me. After working on it for a while, (which was not fun) I looked up the solution, and found out that sense I had already worked on it a bit, the solution was useless me! So I had to completely restart the quest and not even attempt to solve it on my own to get past it.

Suggestion: Make puzzle solving an optional granting extra exp/loot, but don't force those who hate the awful things to do them if they want to run the quest.

It seems every update, there's always one quest with a frustrating puzzle that sucks the enjoyment right out of the quest. Examples: "Prove Your Worth" (Three-Barrel Cove pack) "Siegebreaker" (Attack on Stormreach pack) "Rainbow in the Dark" (Vale of Twilight pack) "Inferno of the Damned" (Necropolis part 4) "The Crucible" (Ruins of Gianthold pack) Consequently, fewer people run the quest because they don't know the puzzle, depending on some puzzle genius to put together a group and do it for them while they pike. Maybe someday their memorize the puzzle (doesn't that sound fun) and be able to run their own groups (maybe).

So what do people think, should puzzles stay mandatory for quest completion, or should they be optionals for extra for those so inclined?

Man, you've got some guts. Admitting to being unable to understand kobold puzzle (which is braindead) takes some real courage. You've got my respect.

[Mr.Delightful]

Man, you've got some guts. Admitting to being unable to understand kobold puzzle (which is braindead) takes some real courage. You've got my respect.

Tarragon rolls to flame: he rolls a 1(+0): Failure!
Thx for the free bump though

[kiaoto]

I agree with the original author. You want puzzle, go play your puzzle games. DDO ruins adventures with the stupid puzzles. The only reason I even attempt them is cause I have to do them to get to the better quests.

[cpito]

I have issues navigating through explorer zones. I know plenty of others who do too. Please remove explorer zones or give us the means to get to OOB without having to get lost first or find someone hold our hands.

/sarcasm off... kinda

I do in fact have issues navigating through the desert but never once has it occured to me to try to make the game change to cater to my inability. In fact, for the first time since Zawabi's was released, after years of frustration, last week I found my own way to OOB and it was a good day.

There is nothing in this game that requires you to do all the quests and there is no reward for such or even for gaining max favor. There are tools at your disposal to help you around puzzles like google and the community. As far as I'm concerned, asking for obstacles to be removed simply because you don't like them is sign of a weak mind.

Just say no to cookie cutter questing!

[joneb1999]

Just a wild suggestion. I think there should be a skill for puzzle solving that works like getting a DM hint and each puzzle should be assigned a limit of allowed hints and a penalty for using the hints.

Possibly when a character interacts with a puzzle on each move/piece they can select this skill which will reveal part of the puzzle. However each puzzle should be given a maximum use of this skill on it so for instance on a simple line pattern tile puzzle there are only two uses of the skill on this (ie two allowed hints). Each use of the skill would reveal three correctly linked tiles but for a -10%xp penalty per hint for essentially getting DM help.

Maybe a higher intelligence on a toon can give non penalty hints. This allows for a player who is playing a highly intelligent toon (more intelligent than him/her) to get a related benefit within a role playing capacity.

[SynalonEtuul]

I am not selfish. I am far from the only one who plays and enjoys DDO but dislikes puzzles; my suggestion is for the benefit of the DDO community as a whole, which is composed of people who may or may not frequent the forums.

Despite absolutely everyone disagreeing with me my view is still that of the majority

Combat is already prioritized over puzzles, for a reason.

We eat more carbohydrates than vegetables. Therefore, we shouldn't eat vegetables!

[dredre9987]

/Not Signed..

Puzzles are an integral part of D&D.

Nuff said.

[Nerate_Mireth]

My god! Enter the kobold puzzle is EASY. See the 2 lights on the floor in front of you? Hit the one on the left and you go 2 forward and 1 LEFT. Hit the one on the right and you go 2 forward and 1 RIGHT. How HARD is that?

You don't like the puzzles? In PnP most of the time you get a VERBAL description, no visual, when a "puzzle" arises. And these puzzles are NOT that difficult.

Don't want puzzles? Go play something like WoW!

[amethystdragon]

OP, I do not like some of the puzzles either; but I would not want to see them removed from the game.

If the puzzles really bug you that much; either don't run the quests that have them, find a group that can help you with them, or find a game that does not have any type of puzzle in it.

You say puzzles detract from your fun, but other players may find the puzzles fun; so why do you want to detract from their fun?

[SardaofChaos]

Man, you've got some guts. Admitting to being unable to understand kobold puzzle (which is braindead) takes some real courage. You've got my respect.

That was probably one of the worst examples you could have picked to flame him about his intelligence on. There is more than a bit of thought in figuring out how to light up all of the tiles, unless you're just ****ing around until the DM tells you it's over and that would take a long time, as with most of the puzzles in DDO. It's just that this particular one doesn't have a failure situation.

As for 'solving' being just two steps, no. That is bypassing it. You have not solved it unless you have gotten the treasure chest in one of the squares.

[SableShadow]

Call it a 'Bell of Puzzling' or "Puzzle Mephit" whatever.

Cespenar: "Cespenar take master through puzzle, yes he will. Follow Cespenar, this way...no, wait, that way!"
Player: <zorch!><ding!>
Cespenar: "Cespenar has rez clickie, wait one second to find."

[joneb1999]

When I played pnp D&D the DM would allow for hints based on an awareness type roll if a players character had the intelligence score high enough to figure out a puzzle. Its fair enough as just about every other action in the game is mostly based on difficulty roles of some kind. Theres no reason I can see why this cant be implemented into DDO.