Puzzles should be optional for quest completion

[Diyon]

Fine the way it is. As to the ones you listed, "Rainbow in the Dark," seriously? That's hardly a puzzle. All you freaking do is keep stepping on the buttons until each is the right color, stepping on one doesn't affect any of the others. That's not a puzzle, its just a password entry device. You don't need someone puzzle genius for this, if you're in a group that doesn't have one person who knows how the color code is, you're most likely playing with people who have never ran the quest before. Two, if this is the case and know one knows it, look it up. Messing with it first changes nothing, and it will hardly take any time either way. Once again, its not a puzzle, its a question, which you then provide the answer for.

[danotmano1998]

I personally don't like the puzzles.
(When I say puzzles, I mean the tile clicking ones.. Especially that horrible 3d one.)

That being said, I don't agree that we should remove them entirely.
Lots of folks enjoy them, some even love them.

If I find a quest that has a puzzle I don't want to spend all of my free time for the evening figuring out, I just load up the browser, and use my google friend. Puzzle solved, and I'm moving on to what I *do* enjoy doing.

[falcon2030]

I don't like the quests that force you to Hack-n-slash your way to the end so I think they should only be optional for completion. It should be an option for me to be able to just solve a puzzle and finish without having to pick up a sword.


Yeah neither suggestion is likely to make it to development for the simple fact that both are a large part of keeping the quests from being either mindless or headache causing.

I Understand some people don't like puzzles and some don;t like Pure Hack-n-Slash but to eliminate either is to alienate half the player base and would be Bad buisness.

[SynalonEtuul]

This MMO that caters to thousands of people includes content for other playstyles for some reason?!?!

[skwatson]

Honestly, the puzzles IMHO are a very integral part of many quests from a RP/Lore standpoint. DDO wouldn't be DDO without them.

Can you imagine the Reaver's Doomsday device having a simple "off" lever? Or terrorists dirty bomb with a big red "Push here to disarm" button?

The characters behind many of these quests are least devious if not outright evil. The addition of mazes (The Crucible) and puzzles (all those mentioned by the OP and more) bring a welcome richness to the game, elevating it from meaningless hack'n'slash to an experience that can engage all aspects of the community.

I abhor some of the puzzles personally, but that's why I don't run Reaver's without a guildie that is efficient in completing the puzzle without a solver. I dislike the lights-out puzzle in the Shroud, but spent time learning the mechanics because I dislike even more having to post "need help with 3x3/5x5 in ***."

If you don't like the puzzle in a certain quest, as other posters have mentioned, join a group with someone willing to do the puzzle or avoid the quest. Outside of the Korthos quests on your first character, there is nothing forcing you to complete ANY specific quest in this game.

[Kalari]

Not everyone in my guild can or want to do puzzles. What they do in quests like Enter the Kobold is find a spot to relax while those of us who enjoy such things get it done.

Heck I found the puzzle in the Dreaming Dark Quest a bit much for my tastes due to the time we spent in there first learning them. so now I let whoever wants to get it done do it.

Honestly while I can understand your plight why ruin an aspect others like just because you dont? Thats why grouping is a nice game feature when your in a group there is bound to be a chance to get someone into puzzles while you do your kill/spell or what not.

[Roisen]

wish they'd put in rubik's cube or sudoku for example

just imagine solving the cube for quest completion and timed.

[Mr.Delightful]

The only puzzle you have listed that I have not experienced is the Inferno of the Damned. From what I have heard of it, I can say with 90% certainty that it, Kobold, and the Crucible are the only valid examples you have given. Here's a list:

Prove Your Worth: 2 minutes experimentation to figure out what the levers do and what happens when a lighted area is hit, follow the dart lines to solve.
Siegebreaker: Run in the pattern of a 5-pointed star. That's all. I've heard tales that you can even just run in a circle, but have not confirmed. Slightly harder, yes, but once you know how(which only takes a single quest run with someone who does) you can't forget.
Rainbow in the Dark: it's a rainbow. Seriously, if you didn't do this your first time through...

Others you neglected to mention:
Tomb of the Tormented: also a valid complaint, but only because of the timing(and time necessary) involved and not so much because of the difficulty of the puzzle.
Ghost of a Chance: puzzle is entirely optional, which is good because it is the only one that is entirely impossible without a specific qualifier, in this case a semi-decent search skill.

Now, you may notice that of the puzzle mentioned, I claim half as valid. Does this mean they need to be optional? Not in all cases. For The Crucible, the puzzle is an entirely necessary part of the challenge. Have to be intelligent to be part of the Storm Brigade and all that. For Inferno, from what I hear the puzzle is all that the quest is, and removing it would remove the quest. For Kobold, it's possible. There's already a treasure chest for solving it, all that would need to be done is remove the barrier on the other side. People would still have to be minorly competent in order to pass through, but would not have to hunt down every single unlit switch. Finally, for Tomb of the Tormented, the puzzle is again all that the quest is.

To sum up: making the puzzles optional would only be both a good idea and possible in Enter the Kobold and Tomb of the Tormented.

Well, you seem to be good at puzzles, and are thus happy with keeping many of them as mandatory for quest completion; I am not. I think that that if Puzzles were optional for quest completion, it would result in more groups for puzzle-filled quests and less frustration for all.

[NinjaNeed]

wish they'd put in rubik's cube or sudoku for example

just imagine solving the cube for quest completion and timed.

lmao

I got my first rubix cube in 1986 (I think) and still have never solved one!!!

If they introduce a rubix cube into the game I hope we get an option to tear off the stickers and pop them back in the right place lmao

[ATF_Gabriel]

You say "interesting" I say frustrating. Which do you think is the more common reaction?

Puzzles are only interesting if you are interested in puzzles. I am not, hence my dislike of having to do them to complete the quest.

Then the puzzles serve they're purpose. They are there to frustrate you and annoy you. Not every evil genius is going to just throw mobs of monsters at you. Some are going to get creative and hide their valuables behind puzzles and monsters to try and discourage those that hate them from coming after their hard earned, stolen, created stuff.

That would be like me saying "I wanna be an engineer but I don't want to do the math".

[falcon2030]

Well, you seem to be good at puzzles, and are thus happy with keeping many of them as mandatory for quest completion; I am not. I think that that if Puzzles were optional for quest completion, it would result in more groups for puzzle-filled quests and less frustration for all.

If you are not good at these puzzles maybe just get someone to do them for you, or better yet learn them. None are that difficult and there are solvers available all over the internet to solve them for you. So the point you are making is moot and unecessary. if you don;t like them move on and don't do the quest. It isn't necessary nor is it fair to force others to play to your style just because you don't like one small part of teh game. And yes they are a very small part of the game (in my opinion too small I feel there should be a lot more)

[Koshy11]

wish they'd put in rubik's cube or sudoku for example

just imagine solving the cube for quest completion and timed.

/signed for sudoku

/not signed for trying to want things YOUR WAY only because you don't like it. If you take a minute to take a look at it out of your personal perception, you will realize how one sided and unfair your suggestion is, in fact downright unacceptable.

Just don't go to puzzle filled quests if you don't like them. There's so much quests all over the place players can pick what they want to play. No one force you to click on the enter button.

[falcon2030]

That would be like me saying "I wanna be an engineer but I don't want to do the math".

LOL that made me laugh as I teach Organic Chemistry and hear this ALL too often

+1 to you sir for the laugh as I'm grading finals

[kyleann]

The whole point of the game isn't to kill tons of monsters, it's to complete quests. I suggest you look at a game like the Dynasty Warriors franchise where killing 1000s of mobs is the entirety of the game. DDO has to have puzzles, it's just part of the challenge. In fact, it might be the only challenging part about the game for some people. Anyone can pike a shroud long enough to get GS mats. I've personally seen Paladins who reach level 15 without knowing why they can't cast spells.

As it is, the game is already "too easy", so taking out the puzzles that can be extremely tough and annoying at times would detract from the overall gameplay. From this thread alone you can see that most of us are for rather than against the puzzles. In fact, I think they should get significantly more difficult ones for Epic level play. If you want Epic loot, you have to kill MUCH harder mobs while solving MUCH harder puzzles.

There are much more important things DDO could work on than taking away content.

[The_Rocking_Dead]

These days, I tend to like putting puzzles outside of a dungeon's critical path, thus making them optional. We realize that puzzles aren't for everyone. At the same time, we also know that puzzles lend DDO part of its unique flavor.

By making puzzles optional, we allow the players who enjoy them to still experience them without diminishing the experience for people who hate being forced to solve puzzles. A good example of this is the puzzle in the new Update 9 dungeon, "In the Flesh." If you find it, you can solve it to get additional treasure, but by no means are you required to solve it to progress through the level.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Ghost of a Chance: puzzle is entirely optional, which is good because it is the only one that is entirely impossible without a specific qualifier, in this case a semi-decent search skill.

Incorrect. Search makes the puzzle from challenging to easy. It is possible to solo it with a cleric or a barbarian with no search at all. I'd recommend doing it on normal first because the guy would not get zapped as hard each time you get something wrong.

[jwdaniels]

Two devs in one thread? Awesome!

[SableShadow]

Incorrect. Search makes the puzzle from challenging to easy. It is possible to solo it with a cleric or a barbarian with no search at all. I'd recommend doing it on normal first because the guy would not get zapped as hard each time you get something wrong.

By the by, kudos on the Monestary/Sanyasi tweaks that went in while I was away.

Playing a stealth game of cat n' mouse with him while solving the puzzle is pretty **** cool.

[Bladedge]

If puzzles in this game were always optional they would most likely always be bypass unless the reward is greater then the time spent on the puzzle. But most often the puzzles would always be bypass like many other optionals in the game.

Puzzles, are one aspect of the game that make DDO different from other mmos.

wish they'd put in rubik's cube or sudoku for example

just imagine solving the cube for quest completion and timed.

That would probably make for a nice solo quest, the faster you solve it the more xp you are rewarded. There would also beh a giant gelatinous cube that circles the puzzle that would kill you if your don't solve the puzzle in time.

[TheMidnightMage]

I say they need to add more interesting puzzles... Turning a few blocks does not a good puzzle make. Do something like have you figure out which alters to cleans anything like that. More like the Start in the Lordsmarch quest chain that thing is sweet!! DnD was always set to have the puzzles and challenges. It was never meant to be a bash and slash game. Power to the puzzles!!!!