Puzzles should be optional for quest completion

[Mr.Delightful]

I don't like puzzles, but I realize some do. What I really hate are puzzles that force me to go through them to complete the quest. I was just going through "Enter the Kobold" today, and I was reminded how much puzzles really ruin large parts of the game for me. After working on it for a while, (which was not fun) I looked up the solution, and found out that sense I had already worked on it a bit, the solution was useless me! So I had to completely restart the quest and not even attempt to solve it on my own to get past it.

Suggestion: Make puzzle solving an optional granting extra exp/loot, but don't force those who hate the awful things to do them if they want to run the quest.

It seems every update, there's always one quest with a frustrating puzzle that sucks the enjoyment right out of the quest. Examples: "Prove Your Worth" (Three-Barrel Cove pack) "Siegebreaker" (Attack on Stormreach pack) "Rainbow in the Dark" (Vale of Twilight pack) "Inferno of the Damned" (Necropolis part 4) "The Crucible" (Ruins of Gianthold pack) Consequently, fewer people run the quest because they don't know the puzzle, depending on some puzzle genius to put together a group and do it for them while they pike. Maybe someday their memorize the puzzle (doesn't that sound fun) and be able to run their own groups (maybe).

So what do people think, should puzzles stay mandatory for quest completion, or should they be optionals for extra for those so inclined?

[Cam_Neely]

no, no and no

They are part of the quest. Part of the challenge. Either avoid the quests, or do the puzzles. Might as well ask for a check box to take traps out for when I solo with my Barb. Or take out spell resistance for my splashed caster.

[somenewnoob]

I like the puzzles, I don't think there are enough of them to annoy me. The amount is just about right.

[DrakmireTS]

Having puzzles be mandatory is one of the only things that makes dungeons interesting, and not just a mindless slog through trash until completion.

Thinking for yourself is a good thing.

[Synthetic]

/not signed

Perhaps you should have put up an lfm then you could have had someone else do the puzzle and you could of done the parts you like.

[Fejj]

I totally agree, and while we are at it, the mobs really get in the way while I try to rush to the end of the quest, they can kill me, or worse. Can we make them an option you turn on at the quest start?
Normal - with mobs
Normal - no mobs

Thanks


To the OP, just don't run the quests you don't like. There are quests out there for all players. Have you tried Waterworks? Lots of fun there, and no puzzles. (the last part of the chain can be tricky, but you can put up an LMF for help finding the body if needed.)

[TrinityTurtle]

I also prefer things the way they are, but point out, you know you hate them, so why didn't you take the time to load up the solution before you started messing with the puzzle so that you can simply blow through it? Not being properly prepared does not equate a need to change the dungeons. You are in control of your own game experience at the end of the day, mandatory puzzles or not.

[Chai]

There are sammich tank -n- spank games where all you do is kill and move forward on the market.

Lets not make DDO one of them.

[Mr.Delightful]

Having puzzles be mandatory is one of the only things that makes dungeons interesting, and not just a mindless slog through trash until completion.

Thinking for yourself is a good thing.

You say "interesting" I say frustrating. Which do you think is the more common reaction?

Puzzles are only interesting if you are interested in puzzles. I am not, hence my dislike of having to do them to complete the quest.

[SynalonEtuul]

u devs why u put puzzles dat hurt mah brain

[underpants]

Booo I say

there is always a solver out there

next you will want to be able to go through VOD while in a cheerleader outfit attacking sulu with Pom Poms

[Gratch]

I like puzzles, despite TR'ing and running quests like Enter the Kobold 10x in a row for Xp grind. I'd be sad if there were no puzzles. There are quests such as the puzzle one in 3BC and more recent ones where THEY HAVE ADDED a puzzle bypass possibility - often for less XP but still completion.

Also... if you weren't able to get the puzzle in Kobold, was there noone else in the quest with you who could do it? Because solo, you'd have a very interesting fight coming up at the end if unfamiliar with the quest. Though it has been nerfed quite a bit... so maybe not insane. Maybe it's cake on casual... dunno.

[muffinlad]

Interestingly, I agree with you for the most part.

A) I would not change quests as they exist today, there needs to be a mix for folks who enjoy a different way of playing than you or I might.

B) Future quests designed would have puzzles that give an advantage, or a reward.
Example: Quest takes 15 min, and gives you 4k xp
Do simple puzzle, get access to an item that lets the quest go faster.
Do a medium puzzle, get 2k more exp.
Do a complex puzzle, get 2k more exp and a special item.

I think that DDO has a mix of these right now, and I would like to see more of B, than A.

Now, I am able to do most of the puzzles in the game- my style is that I prefer them to be additions rather than mandatory.

My two copper anyway,

muffinriddles

[jwdaniels]

You say "interesting" I say frustrating. Which do you think is the more common reaction?

Puzzles are only interesting if you are interested in puzzles. I am not, hence my dislike of having to do them to complete the quest.

From my experience, interesting is far more common than frustrating. Like someone else said, group with someone to do the puzzles and handle the parts that you don't want to handle. There are so many different quests and features in DDO, you can easily pick and choose what to play and what not to play.

Personally, I find halfling monks frustrating because they tend to be twitchy little speedballs on crack, but I wouldn't want them removed because other people enjoy playing them.

[SardaofChaos]

The only puzzle you have listed that I have not experienced is the Inferno of the Damned. From what I have heard of it, I can say with 90% certainty that it, Kobold, and the Crucible are the only valid examples you have given. Here's a list:

Prove Your Worth: 2 minutes experimentation to figure out what the levers do and what happens when a lighted area is hit, follow the dart lines to solve.
Siegebreaker: Run in the pattern of a 5-pointed star. That's all. I've heard tales that you can even just run in a circle, but have not confirmed. Slightly harder, yes, but once you know how(which only takes a single quest run with someone who does) you can't forget.
Rainbow in the Dark: it's a rainbow. Seriously, if you didn't do this your first time through...

Others you neglected to mention:
Tomb of the Tormented: also a valid complaint, but only because of the timing(and time necessary) involved and not so much because of the difficulty of the puzzle.
Ghost of a Chance: puzzle is entirely optional, which is good because it is the only one that is entirely impossible without a specific qualifier, in this case a semi-decent search skill.

Now, you may notice that of the puzzle mentioned, I claim half as valid. Does this mean they need to be optional? Not in all cases. For The Crucible, the puzzle is an entirely necessary part of the challenge. Have to be intelligent to be part of the Storm Brigade and all that. For Inferno, from what I hear the puzzle is all that the quest is, and removing it would remove the quest. For Kobold, it's possible. There's already a treasure chest for solving it, all that would need to be done is remove the barrier on the other side. People would still have to be minorly competent in order to pass through, but would not have to hunt down every single unlit switch. Finally, for Tomb of the Tormented, the puzzle is again all that the quest is.

To sum up: making the puzzles optional would only be both a good idea and possible in Enter the Kobold.

[Mr.Delightful]

no, no and no

They are part of the quest. Part of the challenge. Either avoid the quests, or do the puzzles. Might as well ask for a check box to take traps out for when I solo with my Barb. Or take out spell resistance for my splashed caster.

You can already reduce trap difficult and damage greatly by using the difficulty settings; There is no such option for puzzles. Besides, as a barb you just run though the trap anyway

[cwfergtx]

That would be like asking that all quests be soloable not require hirelings to help with switches or how about no Mario style jumping quest for those that are half blind with poor hand eye cordination. I void certain quests since I don't like them or I look for lfm's for them to get them out of the way.

[NinjaNeed]

/NOT signed!!!

Puzzles are one of the few fun parts of quests. The puzzle in Enter the Kobold is a simple one. Just keep choosing a random direction and you will be sure to get through eventually. Its not hard.

My suggestion to you is to either go back to school and leave these games until you are a bit older and able to comprehend simple puzzles or go play WoW where all you need to do in quests is walk/kill/repeat.

[Teharahma]

I don't like puzzles, but I realize some do. What I really hate are puzzles that force me to go through them to complete the quest. I was just going through "Enter the Kobold" today, and I was reminded how much puzzles really ruin large parts of the game for me. After working on it for a while, (which was not fun) I looked up the solution, and found out that sense I had already worked on it a bit, the solution was useless me! So I had to completely restart the quest and not even attempt to solve it on my own to get past it.

Suggestion: Make puzzle solving an optional granting extra exp/loot, but don't force those who hate the awful things to do them if they want to run the quest.

It seems every update, there's always one quest with a frustrating puzzle that sucks the enjoyment right out of the quest. Examples: "Prove Your Worth" (Three-Barrel Cove pack) "Siegebreaker" (Attack on Stormreach pack) "Rainbow in the Dark" (Vale of Twilight pack) "Inferno of the Damned" (Necropolis part 4) "The Crucible" (Ruins of Gianthold pack) Consequently, fewer people run the quest because they don't know the puzzle, depending on some puzzle genius to put together a group and do it for them while they pike. Maybe someday their memorize the puzzle (doesn't that sound fun) and be able to run their own groups (maybe).

So what do people think, should puzzles stay mandatory for quest completion, or should they be optionals for extra for those so inclined?

*snicker*

[Splotto]

I hate having to kill monsters to finish the quest too. Also, having to open the chests are a real PITA. Maybe they can fix it so we can just zone in and the loot appears in the inventory and you get the XP.

/sarcasm off