Cloudkill spell does NOT do the listed damage

[Tedeshi]

First, before the debate starts on the benefits of cloudkill vs the damage and why the damages may be different due to these benefits, this is not talking about that. This is only talking about the actual listed damage of cloudkill. If for some reason the dev's don't want this damage, then the spell should be re-written to show the accurate damage.

The spell cloudkill reports that it does damage exactly like that of firewall (for that portion) as 2d6 + 1 point for every level of caster(max 20) which is how it is stated for firewall (this is only talking about the damage, not the additional Con damage which is labelled separately and according to the spell is counted separately). the lowest damage I have registered is 16 acid damage, the maximum is 115 acid damage (which I have only seen 1 time above 100), with an average out of 327 entries of only 32 points...the majority of the time I see between 22-24 acid damage on creatures. When using the infused chaosrobe, and getting the erosion bonus, the damage runs between 24-75 damage, with 24-28 showing up 6 out of the 9 times noted for damage during that 30 seconds. I also constantly run with maximize and empower activated.

Even taking the minimum amount of damage possible (if the beast is not immune to acid or getting a damage reduction), as a lvl 20 tier 3 earth savant (granting a +6 to my max caster lvl - now 26- and a +3 to the spell max lvl - so instead of 20 points it would then be a 23 max points), yielding a superior potency VI item and Acid manipulation of VII (I will not stack these for minimum damage), also NOT counting the maximize and empower activated feats - then the damage should fall as either:

42.5: (2+23)+5 +12.5 (the last 2 # are from the 20% capstone bonus and the 50% Acid Manipulation VII bonus and each are taken from the base damage, not after any additions of the 2)

or on a save 21.25: (2+23)/2 + 2.5 + 6.25 (I took the 20% and 50% bonus from the already divided 25 min damage instead of first to show for the absolute minimum).

even if you figured the capstone did not stack (meaning the capstone would then be worthless) with the 50% AM VII bonus, that still leaves you with: 37.5 and 18.75 in minimum damages.

This is if you only obtain the minimun, without stacking, and without a critical or any additional bonuses from feats (such as maximize and/or empower) or other named/normal equipment. This shows I should never see a score of below 21, let alone 16 (from anything that does not have acid resistance).

I run with a superior potency VI item, a major acid lore item, the infusion chaosrobe (to try out for the additional 75% bonus when you get the erosion to be granted). I also did not add in any damage I obtained from yellow numbers as it is unknown exactly how much acid resistance the creature might have had and did not want any erroneous estimations to be added in. As a control I also made sure that creatures naturally immune to acid (such as the Tharaak hounds) still showed as being immune and not taking any damage.

Hopefully, if I have put this in somewhat of a coherent manner...then that damage minimum should show even higher with the activated feats and items utilized.

Now, Please do not look at this as to why it is not giving out this damage due to any benefits of the spell. I am only concerned with that it is NOT giving the correct damage. As stated, if the dev's decide that this is the damage it should give, then the spell description needs to be changed so as to not lead to confusion. If not, then the damage that is currently being calculated needs to be refigured to match what is described.

Grand huntin all!!

[danotmano1998]

I am only concerned with that it is NOT giving the correct damage. As stated, if the dev's decide that this is the damage it should give, then the spell description needs to be changed so as to not lead to confusion. If not, then the damage that is currently being calculated needs to be refigured to match what is described.

/signed. If the spells don't do what they should, then the wiki's, compendiums, and in game descriptions should be altered to be correct. I'm with ya on that one! Same goes for the vorpal thread.

[Janth]

I thouht they changed it so aoe's could not be maximized or empowered. Is that what you are talking about?

[Tedeshi]

I thouht they changed it so aoe's could not be maximized or empowered. Is that what you are talking about?

nay, Janth. as I show in the calculations, the minimum damages do not account for maximized or empowered (I did not want any confusion on this part by either adding them when they are not supposed to be added, or by stacking them if they are not supposed to be stacked. I left them out of the equation completely). I am only explaining that the damages are not showing as accurate in regards to how it is described.

[Janth]

Yes, but the capstone only affects spells that can be empowered. That being said... the 16 is still too low, unless the mob had some resistance.

[Tedeshi]

Yes, but the capstone only affects spells that can be empowered. That being said... the 16 is still too low, unless the mob had some resistance.

Again, I viewed mobs with no known resistances and no yellow numbers were counted in my calculations.

Now, I could be wrong, but AOE still get maximize and empower. it is just extend that was taken away from the offensive type spells. But regardless, as was stated and as ye noted, 16 is still too low.

[Gkar]

I believe this undocumented change was noted on the last Lama build. Devs didn't comment if it was a deliberate change to the spell or a bug.

Both of course are possible, Turbine is famous for bugs they don't acknowledge and which stay in game forever (like the curse removal pots that are still bugged after several years, enough though the guild version was introduced fixed) and for item/spell descriptions that are long out of date (for example the spell effect clickies that showed +50% instead of +75% for so long)

[Tedeshi]

I believe this undocumented change was noted on the last Lama build. Devs didn't comment if it was a deliberate change to the spell or a bug.

Both of course are possible, Turbine is famous for bugs they don't acknowledge and which stay in game forever (like the curse removal pots that are still bugged after several years, enough though the guild version was introduced fixed) and for item/spell descriptions that are long out of date (for example the spell effect clickies that showed +50% instead of +75% for so long)

hmm, aye. I will state that I have been an acid build for years now, and cloudkill is now the worst it has ever been for damage after U9. Previously I used to see no lower then my absolute minimums, with crits dealing up to approx 150 on a regular basis.

The reason I really started to pay attention to it, is that as an acid build, I needed something that contended with Firewall...and after viewing the stated damage on both spells, they should be producing the exact same damage, which they were not over the last couple years. So with U9, I was hopin for either a change to spell description, or a fix to the damage, not a reduction to damage and no fix to the description. *sigh*.

[RudeIota]

Update 9 silently ruined Cloudkill. It wasn't a *great* spell anyway (contrary to PnP), but I've ranted about this one and filed a ticket. I'm pretty sure it is a bug and not a silent nerf because Cloudkill was in no way even remotely worthy of nerfing.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=313985
I'm probably one of 7 people who actually use Cloudkill, but for anyone else who has tried it on Lamannia... Have you noticed that it now does a heck of lot less damage?

In update 8 with about +90% base dmg, +175% crit dmg and 18% chance of +50% crit dmg), I was getting 40-50 points of damage per tick and crits in the 100-150 range.

In update 9 with about +100% base dmg, +165% crit dmg and a 17% chance of +50% crit dmg), I am getting 10-20 points of damage per tick and crits in the 30-60 range.

The spell description hasn't changed... My equipment is the same... and with my new acid-geared enhancements I should be getting several extra points of damage overall.

It doesn't even make any sense, really. Even the lowest damage I should be doing is 2d6 (base) +16 (lvl) for a MINIMUM of 18 damage... BEFORE any enhancements, potency etc...

Khyber:

(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 45 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 41 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 38 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 47 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 43 points of acid damage.
(Combat): Spell Crit! Your Cloudkill has greater effect!
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 130 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 3 points of constitution damage.
(Combat): Spell Crit! Your Cloudkill has greater effect!
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 120 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 2 points of constitution damage.
(Combat): Spell Crit! Your Cloudkill has greater effect!
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 104 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 2 points of constitution damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 45 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 47 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 45 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 3 points of constitution damage.

Lamannia:

(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 12 points of acid damage.
(Combat): Spell Crit! Your Cloudkill has greater effect!
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 3 points of constitution damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 26 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 4 points of constitution damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 14 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 1 point of constitution damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 22 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 2 points of constitution damage.
(Combat): Spell Crit! Your Cloudkill has greater effect!
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 58 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 1 point of constitution damage
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 10 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 3 points of constitution damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 14 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 4 points of constitution damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 20 points of acid damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 2 points of constitution damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 16 points of acid damage.
(Combat): Spell Crit! Your Cloudkill has greater effect!
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat with 2 points of constitution damage.
(Combat): you hit Twlight Giant Rat for 26 points of acid damage.

Khyber Sorceror:
Level 16
Superior Potency VII
Major Acid Lore
Lineage of Energy III (+50% crit dmg 9% of the time)
Lineage of Deadly Energy III (+125% crit dmg)
Energy Manipulation IV (+40% dmg).

Lamannia Sorceror:
Level 16
Superior Potency VII
Major Acid Lore
Earth Savant II
Corrosive Spell Casting V (+50% crit dmg 8% of the time)
Deadly Acid V (+115% crit dmg)
Acid Manipulation VII (+50% base dmg)

[Tedeshi]

Thanks, rudeIota

Aye, I have a ticket in also. And glad to know that at least 2 of the 7 people that use Cloudkill have ranted about it *chuckles*.

[RudeIota]

Thanks, rudeIota

Aye, I have a ticket in also. And glad to know that at least 2 of the 7 people that use Cloudkill have ranted about it *chuckles*.

Hooray! Maybe our small, select group of Cloudkillers will get this fixed/addressed!

[MeliCat]

Does CK stack now though? I had meant to look this up or test it...

[wax_on_wax_off]

/signed.

I'm an acid sorc and haven't used cloudkill much yet, please make it a worthwhile spell again.

In other news, acid rain rocks.

[RudeIota]

Haven't heard a peep about this.... It's been a problem since U9.

[XatheX]

Maybe someone covered this but - Earth savant is what breaks cloudkill

tested with and without earth savant - does great without

it seems to make your caster level = 0 - when you have earth savant

this is really broken since it's suspose to increase your caster level not tank it

[RudeIota]

Maybe someone covered this but - Earth savant is what breaks cloudkill

tested with and without earth savant - does great without

it seems to make your caster level = 0 - when you have earth savant

this is really broken since it's suspose to increase your caster level not tank it

This is some GREAT information. Any chance you have already reported this? Valuable specifics like these ought to make it easy to fix when the devs get around to it. Thanks!