First Monk, seeking advice.

[Requimatic]

So I'd like to play a Monk, I believe a DPS Dark Monk (STR-based). I've looked around and noticed, there's a seemingly infinite number of ways to build a Monk, and I'd really like to not screw up.

I'm looking for a STR-based Horc DPS build to reference.. if anyone knows of any good ones and could link me to them, that would be nice. Also any input for me, being a first-time Monk would be cool also. I decided to finally make one since I have accumulated a very nice stash of Monk gear, and they've always looked really fun to me, but never got around to making one.

Anyway, any help is appreciated.

[DevHead]

This is a popular WF str-based monk that you could probably tweak for HOrc: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=264340 It's called the Metaru and just about anyone in this particular forum probably knows it.

If you're going str-based, you'll only need....16 starting Dex (?) with a +2 tome at lvl 7 to qualify for Greater TwoWeap Fighting, so don't take more than that. Max out your str and put all levels in that, then a healthy amount in Con, and some in Wis, if you feel like it. If you go for raw DPS as a monk, you tend to have to sacrifice Wis, which is unfortunate, but it happens.

Fire stance will give you a nice boost to your str, ki generation, and thus your DPS. You can also qualify for the Ultimate Wind Stance, which is extra Dex (AC + Reflex, basically), attack speed, double-strike chance, at the cost of some Con. Earth strikes are popular for DPS as well. Water Stance likely isn't relevant for what you're after.

Also, if you go pure monk and you're going DPS, use handwraps; you'll deal more damage than using kamas or q-staves.

Geez...there's really a lot of directions you can go. I use a Dex/Wis Dark monk Halfling, and she does some good DPS, but sacrifices some of it for great saves, solid AC, and extra Sneak Attack damage (Halfling enhancements). If you have any other questions, post here or PM me; hopefully I can get back to you soon.

Good luck!

[Requimatic]

This is a popular WF str-based monk that you could probably tweak for HOrc: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=264340 It's called the Metaru and just about anyone in this particular forum probably knows it.

If you're going str-based, you'll only need....16 starting Dex (?) with a +2 tome at lvl 7 to qualify for Greater TwoWeap Fighting, so don't take more than that. Max out your str and put all levels in that, then a healthy amount in Con, and some in Wis, if you feel like it. If you go for raw DPS as a monk, you tend to have to sacrifice Wis, which is unfortunate, but it happens.

Fire stance will give you a nice boost to your str, ki generation, and thus your DPS. You can also qualify for the Ultimate Wind Stance, which is extra Dex (AC + Reflex, basically), attack speed, double-strike chance, at the cost of some Con. Earth strikes are popular for DPS as well. Water Stance likely isn't relevant for what you're after.

Also, if you go pure monk and you're going DPS, use handwraps; you'll deal more damage than using kamas or q-staves.

Geez...there's really a lot of directions you can go. I use a Dex/Wis Dark monk Halfling, and she does some good DPS, but sacrifices some of it for great saves, solid AC, and extra Sneak Attack damage (Halfling enhancements). If you have any other questions, post here or PM me; hopefully I can get back to you soon.

Good luck!

Excellent, thank you! I'll check that out now. I see you mentioned sacrificing a little DPS for more survivability.. was the gain in survivability very much worth the slight loss of DPS? I'd rather be able to survive more than do marginally more damage, honestly. One of the things that looks so great about Monks is their survivability, and I'd hate to sacrifice a large amount of that for a marginal gain in DPS.

Also, I'd definitely be using wraps. I have a whole bank tab or two of wraps I've stockpiled since last year. I kept finding better and better ones, so I just hung on to them. Some have Icy Burst (along with another elemental burst), some Stunning (I plan to take Stunning Fist), etc. I've got quite a nice collection of Monk gear.. might as well put it to use!

[Carpone]

Metaru is fine if you're going to stay pure monk. 20 monk isn't my preferred dark monk build though. 12 monk/8 fighter or 12 monk/7 fighter/1 [ranger|rogue] is more DPS than 20 monk and it has more HP to due multiple Toughness feats. Haste Boost is simply too good to ignore, especially with unarmed attacks. After multiple TRs, I'd consider 12 monk/6 fighter/2 paladin (for Divine Grace) to be superior survival while sacrificing very little DPS (20% haste boost v. 25% haste boost).

You're going to TR your monk anyway regardless of which monk build you go with for your first life. The past life monk feats are amazing: +1 damage for the free passive feat, +1 die step for the purchased feat (equivalent to +2 damage per hit). I'd also suggest a paladin past life for the 3x Divine Favor ability (+3 hit, +3 damage), it's really sexy.

[steloro]

Metaru is fine if you're going to stay pure monk. 20 monk isn't my preferred dark monk build though. 12 monk/8 fighter or 12 monk/7 fighter/1 [ranger|rogue] is more DPS than 20 monk and it has more HP to due multiple Toughness feats. Haste Boost is simply too good to ignore, especially with unarmed attacks. After multiple TRs, I'd consider 12 monk/6 fighter/2 paladin (for Divine Grace) to be superior survival while sacrificing very little DPS (20% haste boost v. 25% haste boost).

You're going to TR your monk anyway regardless of which monk build you go with for your first life. The past life monk feats are amazing: +1 damage for the free passive feat, +1 die step for the purchased feat (equivalent to +2 damage per hit). I'd also suggest a paladin past life for the 3x Divine Favor ability (+3 hit, +3 damage), it's really sexy.

not exactly....you lost "only" void 4 ....only an instant death option....

[Carpone]

not exactly....you lost "only" void 4 ....only an instant death option....

I build characters to raid, where instant death effects don't matter. Modeling DPS for trash mobs is silly IMO. They simply don't stay alive long enough, especially after the epic trashmob nerf in U9.

[Zildoran]

If you are planning on a TR on this character, or even just some feat changes later, I wouldn't recommend starting with dark monk. Light monk is a lot easier to survive at low with the extra healing from healing curse and fists of light and mid levels and bypassing metal based damage reduction later is really nice if you don't get lucky in shadow crypt and pull the Devout Handwraps there.

If you can make some Vampiric Stonedust Handwraps those will help whether you are dark or light monk with being a bit more self-sufficient.

When you are all geared out you will do some really nice dps, but I think Shintao is an easier path at the low levels unless you have some gear saved up from other characters.

I'm planning on trying something like these builds if I change to dark monk on another TR.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=283734

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=279570

Just keep in mind that for GM stances you will need an 18 base (usually 16 starting with a +2 tome)

Con for earth, Str for fire, Dex for wind, Wis for water

[Carpone]

In my experience, Healing Curse is not a reason to take light path "for ease of leveling". Mobs die so fast while leveling that you're lucky to get a couple of ticks from Healing Curse. It's not enough healing to avoid using a pocket healer, potions, etc.

The only reason to go with a Shintao III monk as a first life is for ease of bypassing boss DR. (Silver and Cold Iron bypass from PrE, Good bypass from handwraps.) The new crafting system may make it trivial to obtain Metalline of PG handwraps (I haven't looked at it closely yet). If that's true, then I'd stick with dark path as a first life monk.

[DevHead]

Excellent, thank you! I'll check that out now. I see you mentioned sacrificing a little DPS for more survivability.. was the gain in survivability very much worth the slight loss of DPS? I'd rather be able to survive more than do marginally more damage, honestly. One of the things that looks so great about Monks is their survivability, and I'd hate to sacrifice a large amount of that for a marginal gain in DPS.

Also, I'd definitely be using wraps. I have a whole bank tab or two of wraps I've stockpiled since last year. I kept finding better and better ones, so I just hung on to them. Some have Icy Burst (along with another elemental burst), some Stunning (I plan to take Stunning Fist), etc. I've got quite a nice collection of Monk gear.. might as well put it to use!

If you plan on soloing a lot, I'd say absolutely (Touch of Death can help with DPS problems, and you won't have problems with Ki if you solo). If you run with good groups/guild, then you won't need to worry too much about about AC, the saves + imp. evasion is always sexy. I solo'd my monk all the way to 20 before I found a guild I liked, and the balance worked well (I'm a Dex/Wis build). After I joined, I LR'd my toon and dropped my Dex to minimum for GTWF and put more in Wis for saves/AC; I'm considering dropping Wis a bit so I can get Power Attack <--- that's usually the point for me where the biggest drop in DPS appears vs. survivability. It is possible to sacrifice Wis (saves/AC) for a huge increase in health if you don't mind that route for survivability (more dependent on parties for healing unless you get your healing amp % high enough to make Pots of CureSW really useful).

I agree with other posters that there are good splash builds, but I personally prefer pure builds. They have some good suggestions, so check them out if you want. It really depends on how you want your monk to go. Splash builds and pure builds can both accomplish what you're after. You can go all-out DPS, all-out survivability, a balance, or some variation (keeping that in mind should help make sure you don't gimp your build).

As far as your wraps go, unless you plan on maxing Wis to stun in Elite/Epic quests and whatnot, you *may* not need to worry about it so much. I suggest wraps that have "of Bleeding" and "of Pure Good"...and of course Greater Bane wraps; most things bleed (even oozes), Pure Good covers some of the things that don't bleed, but Greater Banes are more than likely your best choice for specific damage (the bleeders are for running into varied monster types constantly).

[Requimatic]

So, at 20 with reasonable gear (I have quite a bit saved up), what can I expect my DCs to be on things like Stunning Fist with 18/16/16/6/10/6? Wis too low, even with a +2 tome and +6 item? (note that I have Stunning +10 wraps, also)

[DevHead]

So, at 20 with reasonable gear (I have quite a bit saved up), what can I expect my DCs to be on things like Stunning Fist with 18/16/16/6/10/6? Wis too low, even with a +2 tome and +6 item? (note that I have Stunning +10 wraps, also)

Well, Stunning Fist is based on your character level now, so...

10 Base
10 (1/2 level)
4 Wis Mod
10 Stunners
-------
34 DC is minimum. If you can get exceptional Wis or ship buffs, maybe some Yugo pots (?), it'll go higher, but I'd say don't expect it to hit 40. That's an ok DC for most Norm-Hard quests, but it's way too low for Epics. I'd say don't focus on Stunning if this is the route you're going, you'll be disappointed. HOWEVER, you could probably get a higher DC taking Stunning BLOW instead; it's a slower cooldown, but it's based on Str and doesn't cost Ki.

[Deathlos]

Based on what you asked for.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

DpsMonk 
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Monk) 
Hit Points: 356
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 15
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    27
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          6                     6
Wisdom               12                    16
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                     3
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         7                    40
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                  1                     3
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  8                    32
Listen                1                     3
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                    -2
Search               -2                    -2
Spot                  1                     3
Swim                  4                     8
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Monk)


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Mountains
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Grandmaster of the Sun
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II

This will provide some of the max dps you can have. while still handleing a decent amount of hp fully geared.
Now i would really suggest going as a light monk unless you have some for sure beaters. since they are quite hard to come by. in which case, drop dodge for Luck of heros. and modify the enchantments some.

you can put your points elsewere then jump. but its just a personal preferance of mine.
Youll be running fire stance. Cycling earth III IV and ToD. maybe a few more if you can get em in.
Garments of equilibrium is the best dps monk robes. something this build gets over the mentaru.


While this is what you ask for. i still suggest a Dex/Wis AC monk. who says you cant deal dmg and have high AC at the same time?

But then agin. i dont like toting around 5healers jsut to keep me alive.....

[DevHead]

While this is what you ask for. i still suggest a Dex/Wis AC monk. who says you cant deal dmg and have high AC at the same time?

But then agin. i dont like toting around 5healers jsut to keep me alive.....

Vampiric stonedust wraps and good healing amp helps. Mitigate/dodge damage, and it's not much of a problem unless you're running high level elite quests.

[Zildoran]

In my experience, Healing Curse is not a reason to take light path "for ease of leveling". Mobs die so fast while leveling that you're lucky to get a couple of ticks from Healing Curse. It's not enough healing to avoid using a pocket healer, potions, etc.

The only reason to go with a Shintao III monk as a first life is for ease of bypassing boss DR. (Silver and Cold Iron bypass from PrE, Good bypass from handwraps.) The new crafting system may make it trivial to obtain Metalline of PG handwraps (I haven't looked at it closely yet). If that's true, then I'd stick with dark path as a first life monk.

Well, for example between healing curse and CSW pots I was able to survive by myself in Litany against a bunch of annoying flesh golems in the Mentau section after the rest of my party died. So, I wouldn't completely trivialize it...it can still save your ass. You're right it's not going to replace healing, but you won't drain your healers blue bar as much on trash mobs that have a fair amount of hps. It sure beats dying.

The easy DR breaking is the main reason for going Shintao, along with the nice strikes versus tainted creatures and ranged stun. And in regards to crafting there is no craftable shard for metalline right now even though it is in the equipment making machine. It may be added later idk.

In regards to AC, in higher level content unless you are planning to spend a good bit of time grinding out some ac gear to get to 80-90 ac you are still going to get hit a fair amount. I don't have a ton of experience in epics, but I've heard that ac isn't that helpful at that point.

[DevHead]

In regards to AC, in higher level content unless you are planning to spend a good bit of time grinding out some ac gear to get to 80-90 ac you are still going to get hit a fair amount. I don't have a ton of experience in epics, but I've heard that ac isn't that helpful at that point.

It really isn't. Though if you can get into the 60s-70s, it helps some.

[Requimatic]

Well, for example between healing curse and CSW pots I was able to survive by myself in Litany against a bunch of annoying flesh golems in the Mentau section after the rest of my party died. So, I wouldn't completely trivialize it...it can still save your ass. You're right it's not going to replace healing, but you won't drain your healers blue bar as much on trash mobs that have a fair amount of hps. It sure beats dying.

The easy DR breaking is the main reason for going Shintao, along with the nice strikes versus tainted creatures and ranged stun. And in regards to crafting there is no craftable shard for metalline right now even though it is in the equipment making machine. It may be added later idk.

In regards to AC, in higher level content unless you are planning to spend a good bit of time grinding out some ac gear to get to 80-90 ac you are still going to get hit a fair amount. I don't have a ton of experience in epics, but I've heard that ac isn't that helpful at that point.

First, thanks for all the replies, wasn't expecting so much.

I've heard the same thing about AC. In epics it won't much matter, unless you can reach the 80-90+ level, which I doubt I'd be able to do. I would, however, like to be able to at least stun things while leveling. Breaking DR is great, but if they add a Metalline shard to the crafting anything soon that kind of borks going Shintao for DR purposes, but you can always respec from that if so I guess.

After reading everything everyone's said, I'm not sure what I'd like to do now, haha. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, a class having this much diversity is a very good thing and a very refreshing thing to see. I have Stonedust Wraps (non-upgraded, but ready to be upgraded to Vampiric), Garments of Equilibrium, and a few other named/non-named but good items.

Obviously I want to dish out the damage, but I don't want it to come at a major hit to anything else. I always love when I'm in a group and there's a Monk constantly stunning things, and I'd like to at least be able to do the same, easily. I'm not so worried about epic stunning (just yet), because it'd be a while before I'm at that point, but I would at least like to be able to on hards/elites if possible when I'm grouped.

So how easy would it be to maintain good DCs throughout leveling, while not sacrificing too much survivability/DPS? I assume I may have to take a hit in either department for it to work.. it's just a matter of which, heh.

[DevHead]

So how easy would it be to maintain good DCs throughout leveling, while not sacrificing too much survivability/DPS? I assume I may have to take a hit in either department for it to work.. it's just a matter of which, heh.

Well, think about it this way: when something is stunned (helpless) it takes 50% more damage from most incoming sources. So, if you want to focus on stunning, then go higher Wis and don't worry *too* much about Str. Also, this will provide higher DCs for your dark move and ToD, which means more damage. AND it means a higher concentration score, and thus better Ki, which means more uses of monk strikes. A high Wis will make you more reliant on Ki, but it's great for survivability. It's like....a decision between raw damage (Str-based) and situational damage (Wis-based). It's really whichever you want to do....or you can try to balance them. Even vs bosses they both have their moments; Str-based will likely be more dependent on healing to stay up, but they can deal very good steady DPS; Wis-based will take less damage and will do it's major DPS in bursts (ToD and such).

Just remember, if you go str-based and sacrifice your Wis score, I strongly suggest taking Stunning BLOW instead of Fist, it'll be a better DC.

I don't know how much more I can tell you. At this point you may need to roll a monk, pick a route and try it. Then reroll if you wanna try something else. Like you said, they're quite versatile. Have fun with it.

[Requimatic]

Well, think about it this way: when something is stunned (helpless) it takes 50% more damage from most incoming sources. So, if you want to focus on stunning, then go higher Wis and don't worry *too* much about Str. Also, this will provide higher DCs for your dark move and ToD, which means more damage. AND it means a higher concentration score, and thus better Ki, which means more uses of monk strikes. A high Wis will make you more reliant on Ki, but it's great for survivability. It's like....a decision between raw damage (Str-based) and situational damage (Wis-based). It's really whichever you want to do....or you can try to balance them. Even vs bosses they both have their moments; Str-based will likely be more dependent on healing to stay up, but they can deal very good steady DPS; Wis-based will take less damage and will do it's major DPS in bursts (ToD and such).

Just remember, if you go str-based and sacrifice your Wis score, I strongly suggest taking Stunning BLOW instead of Fist, it'll be a better DC.

I don't know how much more I can tell you. At this point you may need to roll a monk, pick a route and try it. Then reroll if you wanna try something else. Like you said, they're quite versatile. Have fun with it.

I think you're right about just taking a path and trying it, and that's essentially what I've decided to do. At the very least, I'll get the hang of actually playing the class (cycling attacks, etc.), and can decide later if I want to re-feat or anything of that nature.

I've decided to try out a STR build for now and go with Stunning Blow rather than Fist. If I decide later that I don't like this path, I could always GR and try a Dex/Wis build or something of the like. But thank you for all the info, I appreciate it.

One last thing though, as far as enhancements go, what Animal Path would you suggest? I'm stuck between Crane and Tortoise.. the others don't look too great, except for maybe Monkey. Also, I understand Void IV is the way to go if possible?

[DevHead]

I think you're right about just taking a path and trying it, and that's essentially what I've decided to do. At the very least, I'll get the hang of actually playing the class (cycling attacks, etc.), and can decide later if I want to re-feat or anything of that nature.

I've decided to try out a STR build for now and go with Stunning Blow rather than Fist. If I decide later that I don't like this path, I could always GR and try a Dex/Wis build or something of the like. But thank you for all the info, I appreciate it.

One last thing though, as far as enhancements go, what Animal Path would you suggest? I'm stuck between Crane and Tortoise.. the others don't look too great, except for maybe Monkey. Also, I understand Void IV is the way to go if possible?

Sounds like a solid plan.

As far as animal paths go, since you're going Str-build, I'm assuming Fire Stance, and that's always good for extra Ki on crits, so I'd suggest Tortoise for the extra health and Ki reserves. Monkey is ok at lower levels but loses it's utility at higher levels. Resetting enhancements is easy, so certainly try out both Tortoise and Crane.

Void IV is pretty nifty since it's insta-kill on a Vorpal, but it's something I never bothered with b/c it eats up so much AP. I hear it's very popular for Epic trash (insta-kill mobs? shibby). Once again, that's in your enhancements, so not too difficult to play with.

[Zildoran]

The other option is going Str/Wis with a high starting strength and putting points in wisdom like the Horcrux build which I linked before. That will let you maintain a high dps and get a decent dc in stunning fist and stunning blow. While that build is a dark monk, you could still adapt it just as well to a light monk with changing dodge for luck of heroes or cleave.

It really depends what you want to do with your monk. Find something that you will have fun with soloing (if you like that) and will help in groups and you can't go wrong.