Palemaster Vampire form doesn't really have a place

[AtomicMew]

... Except for heavily splashed melee-pale masters.

But for casters, no. At level 12, I'd much rather be using wraith form, if for nothing else but the run speed. I don't need enchantment DC, because everything in two fireballs or less. Maybe the enchantment DC is useful at level 17 when I start running vale, but one level later I get lich form, which is pretty much flat out better.

Really, the only time that I would want to use vampire form is when I don't want the permanent featherfall of wraith form.

Suggestions:
-increase run speed of vampire form - making it on par with wraith form

or

-Provide a ~10-20 concentration bonus in vampire form. This would at least give it a decent advantage in group settings (when concentration starts to matter due to dungeon scaling).

[Jaid314]

if you think enchantment is useless up until level 17, i can't disagree with you.

also, it has the advantage of not needing to burn a feat on mental toughness, which is nice.

[TheKaige]

it has the advantage of not needing to burn a feat on mental toughness, which is nice.

This. Way I see it, they just wanted to make Lich a level 18 form, and had to throw in some level 12 form for those of us who don't have Mental Toughness.

I would like to see a level 18 mental toughness form however; Spectre/Dread Wraith/Ghost.

[svinja]

Vampire form is bad for a different reason. Today I did some normal IQ on my Pale Master. Now, anyone who's done these quests knows they are hardly end game content, they are extremely easy for their level, unless the difficulty has been increased in this patch. I was in Lich form and was constantly getting hits for up to 200 damage from some light spell, and this wasn't even in a full group. This is manageable, but with vampire this would be 400 damage hits from a single spell in an easy quest on normal difficulty. I could only see using it in quests I know for sure are light spell-free

[ssg2wo]

Vampire form in the quest running with the devils would be impossible in my opinion. Those clerics just chain spam searing light. 4x damage is insane.

[ProdigalGuru]

Maybe the enchantment DC is useful at level 17 when I start running the Vale, but one level later I get lich form, which is pretty much flat out better.

Why do you wait until level 17 to start running the Vale?

I think you can access it at 12...

[stille_nacht]

the solution is to phase into vampire form when you really need the + dc (superior to archmages due to pot chugability), and switch to lich for effectively the same as am (again due to pot chuggability)

[Ytteri]

Why do you wait until level 17 to start running the Vale?

I think you can access it at 12...

Probably to preserve the xp for when you really need and you're taking an over-level penalty on nearly everything else.

[AtomicMew]

the solution is to phase into vampire form when you really need the + dc (superior to archmages due to pot chugability), and switch to lich for effectively the same as am (again due to pot chuggability)

To switch from lich to vampire and back takes, what, ~200 SP? That's not really worth the +1 enchant DC you get.

also, it has the advantage of not needing to burn a feat on mental toughness, which is nice.

I don't see how that's a problem. Everyone gets 1 free feat respec, and it's not like there's a lot of variation to try out.