PVP Heat Death

[Vyrn]

Show me one AA dex build with 42 fort that didnt waste feats/slots doing so and I'll punch myself in the face. My fort is at 26 unbuffed = 517 unbuffed hp's... One day after the update and you're already criticizing people for not having the gear to counter said spell??? My only gripe was that it bypasses an Ioun Stone, do you even know me? The purpose of an Ioun Stone is to not have to worry about fire absorption, etc...

I never once said that pvp was balanced, now did I say it should be. But why make it worse? Afaic the game is not any better than it was before...

Im critizing people for whining about a minor portion of the game and demanding the vast majority of the game be changed to help such a minor part. Ignore the math to reduce the damage, a simple way to counter it is to not be a gimp dex build AA relying on slayers and an ioun, and go get some fort. Really, its not that hard.

When said anything about AAs in the last post? Are you even reading more than a line of what I said? Slayers were meant as a reference to the only huge unresistable damage from a range. Also, why would you make a dex build AA? To waste a party slot? You said purple the pale lavender absorbs. Anyway, oh no. You cant win without adapting to the current tactics. The horror.

Anyway, my clerics at 41 fort, self buffed in the brawl pit. 14 base con, no feats for it (except heroes luck, which was for ref saves and a monk bonus). So make that a 40 fort easily attainable, Im also missing gnawed ring, gnawed ring set bonus, and epic env btw. Thats.. 4 more fort.

[Forzah]

It's really simple to make pvp work well. It only requires disabling of some spells and abilities in public areas, which has been done for spells like firewall and bladebarrier already. The following spells/abilities should be disabled in public/brawling areas:

-(Past life) magic missile (auto aim spells that do 200-300 dmg aren't fair)
-Meteor swarm (does too much dmg and can't be dodged properly in the arena)
-Imbue slaying arrow (rangers still have many shot, a great ability in pvp)
-The new cleric spell (100 dmg a tick that can't be mitigated and dodged is a bit too much)
-Any insta-kill ability (vorpals, fod, implosion are boring... we want to see a real fight)
-Song of capering (bards still get to fascinate, but 1 minute of dancing is a bit too good)

Some other suggestions that should make pvp more balanced, but that will affect pve a bit:
-Guards should do half damage on a save, or have increased procrate but lower damage.
-Reduce the number of charges on an ioun stone to 25.

Most of these changes are extremely simple to code, do not affect pve in any way and make pvp more fun. There is no loss for anyone, but a gain for some pvp'ers. Let's do this!

[Yajerman01]

It's really simple to make pvp work well. It only requires disabling of some spells and abilities in public areas, which has been done for spells like firewall and bladebarrier already. The following spells/abilities should be disabled in public/brawling areas:

-(Past life) magic missile (auto aim spells that do 200-300 dmg aren't fair)
-Meteor swarm (does too much dmg and can't be dodged properly in the arena)
-Imbue slaying arrow (rangers still have many shot, a great ability in pvp)
-The new cleric spell (100 dmg a tick that can't be mitigated and dodged is a bit too much)
-Any insta-kill ability (vorpals, fod, implosion are boring... we want to see a real fight)
-Song of capering (bards still get to fascinate, but 1 minute of dancing is a bit too good)

Some other suggestions that should make pvp more balanced, but that will affect pve a bit:
-Guards should do half damage on a save, or have increased procrate but lower damage.
-Reduce the number of charges on an ioun stone to 25.

Most of these changes are extremely simple to code, do not affect pve in any way and make pvp more fun. There is no loss for anyone, but a gain for some pvp'ers. Let's do this!

/signed

[Forzah]

/signed

I don't know Ron Burgundy, but I agree with him . Should probably make a new thread for my post sometime.

Ragehead here btw

[Vyrn]

It's really simple to make pvp work well. It only requires disabling of some spells and abilities in public areas, which has been done for spells like firewall and bladebarrier already. The following spells/abilities should be disabled in public/brawling areas:

-(Past life) magic missile (auto aim spells that do 200-300 dmg aren't fair)
-Meteor swarm (does too much dmg and can't be dodged properly in the arena)
-Imbue slaying arrow (rangers still have many shot, a great ability in pvp)
-The new cleric spell (100 dmg a tick that can't be mitigated and dodged is a bit too much)
-Any insta-kill ability (vorpals, fod, implosion are boring... we want to see a real fight)
-Song of capering (bards still get to fascinate, but 1 minute of dancing is a bit too good)

Some other suggestions that should make pvp more balanced, but that will affect pve a bit:
-Guards should do half damage on a save, or have increased procrate but lower damage.
-Reduce the number of charges on an ioun stone to 25.

Most of these changes are extremely simple to code, do not affect pve in any way and make pvp more fun. There is no loss for anyone, but a gain for some pvp'ers. Let's do this!

Sure. Now find are reason to justify the dev time spent, when it couldve used making the vast majority of customers happier, and improving the vast majority of the game. I cant think of any and I pvp quite a bit, while also getting killed by quite a bit of those at times.

Edit: I agree the new divine spell is over-the-top. Sure is fun though.

[Yajerman01]

I don't know Ron Burgundy, but I agree with him . Should probably make a new thread for my post sometime.

Ragehead here btw

You know your statement was too easy to explain. This might cause consternation and Turbine wide panic for its simplicity.

[Yajerman01]

Sure. Now find are reason to justify the dev time spent, when it couldve used making the vast majority of customers happier, and improving the vast majority of the game. I cant think of any and I pvp quite a bit, while also getting killed by quite a bit of those at times.

Edit: I agree the new divine spell is over-the-top. Sure is fun though.

People in this game will never be happy completely. there will always be somethign to complain about so this point is moot.

[Forzah]

Sure. Now find are reason to justify the dev time spent, when it couldve used making the vast majority of customers happier, and improving the vast majority of the game. I cant think of any and I pvp quite a bit, while also getting killed by quite a bit of those at times.

Edit: I agree the new divine spell is over-the-top. Sure is fun though.

The changes on top of my list should require only an hour of work for a coder that is familiar with DDO's code. I've helped out with some coding in a Quake 3 mod and can speak from experience. The functionality for disabling spells in the brawling arena has been implemented a long time ago already, so it's merely a question of retagging said spells (in the same category as firewall/blade barrier).

[Grieve]

Really didn't want to get invloved in the conversation, but since I'm bored...

I'd just like to say that anyone that complains about PvP needing to be fixed really needs to just open their eyes and realize this game is not about PvP. DnD has always been a group focused PvE style game. DnD in its essence is about adventuring, questing, exploring, and meeting people.

For those that think PvP is their life in this game, You have chosen the wrong game and here are a few reasons why.

1) PvP doesn't have a fast track for leveling & generically gearing a PvP Specific character.
2) There are no real organized PvP Competitions.
3) PvP is built into a PvE zone. If they meant to make good PvP, it would be seperated almost completely from PvE
4) Good PvP requires multiple developers working full time on balancing all aspects of PvP gameplay constantly due to ever changing metas.

Considering none of these things really exist in DDO. I would have to conclude that they probably only intended the "PvP" pit as a place for players to test out game mechanics for their PvE builds or just to mess around with friends.

[GotSomeQuestions]

these changes are extremely simple to code, do not affect pve in any way

Really? Last time I checked, the Mabar and Crystal Cove events had a big public zone where you fought mobs, with the same set of spell restrictions that you have in a tavern. Banning even more spells from those events would affect PvE play--instant kill spells and effects were a staple against those high-hp cove minotaurs, for example.

If you want balanced PvP, your best bet is to do a match in one of the actual PvP arenas (I like The Stash, although I mostly use it for testing spell effects). Just agree beforehand what you'll use and what's off limits, and go from there.

[Yajerman01]

Really didn't want to get invloved in the conversation, but since I'm bored...

I'd just like to say that anyone that complains about PvP needing to be fixed really needs to just open their eyes and realize this game is not about PvP. DnD has always been a group focused PvE style game. DnD in its essence is about adventuring, questing, exploring, and meeting people.

For those that think PvP is their life in this game, You have chosen the wrong game and here are a few reasons why.

1) PvP doesn't have a fast track for leveling & generically gearing a PvP Specific character.
2) There are no real organized PvP Competitions.
3) PvP is built into a PvE zone. If they meant to make good PvP, it would be seperated almost completely from PvE
4) Good PvP requires multiple developers working full time on balancing all aspects of PvP gameplay constantly due to ever changing metas.

Considering none of these things really exist in DDO. I would have to conclude that they probably only intended the "PvP" pit as a place for players to test out game mechanics for their PvE builds or just to mess around with friends.

thank you for your opinion, our next speaker is.......

[Darkrok]

I occasionally text in general chat, nothing negative or derrogatory and I like to think im fair and treat people with equality, less you loose it. Nonetheless with that statement above your essentially calling me an idiot and everyone who may or may not walk into the PVP arean because it is in general chat.

My main is Aluecian, my alts are Steelguitar, Surver, Aleutian and Orcinator. Please squelch me sir as soon as possible, I wouldnt want my idiocy to impede on your righteousness.

No, I'm saying that I squelch everyone who talks like an idiot while PvP'ing. If you're not talking like an idiot then I don't squelch you.

Thanks for the -1 though!

[Yajerman01]

Thanks for the -1 though!

you notice i dont use the neg system, dont you?

"While participating on the Community Sites, you must respect the rights of others to participate in the community. To this end you may not harass, defraud, threaten or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other members or Turbine staff. This includes, but is not limited to: Posting or commenting with the intent of provoking ("trolling") another user or users"

Please refrain from missinformation. thank you.

[Darkrok]

you notice i dont use the neg system, dont you?

"While participating on the Community Sites, you must respect the rights of others to participate in the community. To this end you may not harass, defraud, threaten or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other members or Turbine staff. This includes, but is not limited to: Posting or commenting with the intent of provoking ("trolling") another user or users"

Please refrain from missinformation. thank you.

Ummm, I don't care who gave me the -1. Thanks to whoever it is.

And I don't think saying thanks for the -1 is misinformation. I assumed you turned your rep on to neg-rep me and then turned it back off based on the fact you're the only person that took issue with the fact that I squelch people that make idiotic comments while pvp'ing. If other people have a problem with the way I make decisions to squelch people in-game then my thank you goes out to them as well.

[Darkrok]

Neg rep for not liking PVP, what it does to our general chat, and liking the fact that epics are not just about using the same option in most quests. Toss this one on top of the pile of examples which clearly show the rep system fails.

Heck, I got neg rep for saying I squelch people that talk like idiots while pvp'ing. I think it shows why both the rep system and the pvp in game are lacking. It doesn't take very many people acting the fool to ruin a thing for everyone. The PvP pits definitely have more than a few people that fit that description.

[protokon]

Heck, I got neg rep for saying I squelch people that talk like idiots while pvp'ing. I think it shows why both the rep system and the pvp in game are lacking. It doesn't take very many people acting the fool to ruin a thing for everyone. The PvP pits definitely have more than a few people that fit that description.

there's a difference between stating your opinion in a mature manner than just merely posting a derogatory, condescending statement. You guys should take a look at the tones of your own post and ask yourself if it was really warranted or not before complaining*


*i'm not the one passing out neg rep either.

[Yajerman01]

Ummm, I don't care who gave me the -1. Thanks to whoever it is. If you didnt care then you wouldnt have mentioned it.

And I don't think saying thanks for the -1 is misinformation. I assumed you turned your rep on to neg-rep me and then turned it back off based on the fact you're the only person that took issue with the fact that I squelch people that make idiotic comments while pvp'ing. If other people have a problem with the way I make decisions to squelch people in-game then my thank you goes out to them as well.

Accusing me IS missinformation to the public.

There is nothing in your previous statements that indicates you quelch based off of "idiotic comments"

here is your previous statement
" No, Chai...if they stop talking in general chat while I'm leveling up my TR's in The Harbor how will I have them squelched when I start grouping? Without account-wide squelch options the chat coming from the PvP pit is my #1 way of avoiding idiots later in the game!"

In no way shape or form do you indicate its based off of idiotic comments and to assume otherwise would not be prudent. Your contorting your original statement issue to justify your current position.

With your assessments and contortions I beg of you to please squelch me.

[Darkrok]

there's a difference between stating your opinion in a mature manner than just merely posting a derogatory, condescending statement. You guys should take a look at the tones of your own post and ask yourself if it was really warranted or not before complaining*


*i'm not the one passing out neg rep either.

Here's my post:

No, Chai...if they stop talking in general chat while I'm leveling up my TR's in The Harbor how will I have them squelched when I start grouping? Without account-wide squelch options the chat coming from the PvP pit is my #1 way of avoiding idiots later in the game!

I stand by the tone of that post. The general chat that goes on in relation to PvP is almost completely idiotic and juvenile. It detracts from the game experience of everyone else that's playing. Without exaggeration I can say that a good quarter of the time I go to the harbor there are at least two people in a childish argument over PvP, usually over which one is using cheesy tactics and which one is uber l33t or other tripe.

So yes, I do want them to keep acting the fool in General Chat because those are exactly the people I do NOT want to group with when they decide to run things in PvE. I'm sorry that some people find the idea that people don't want to group with people that act worse than children offensive enough to neg rep the post, but I think the tone of my post is pretty clear. I find those people, the ones bickering in general chat about pvp, annoying enough to want nothing to do with them.

[stoopid_cowboy]

<snip blah blah>

My e-peen is bigger than yours!
I am gonna equip my UBER "nothing can hurt me" jewelry and own you!
If that doesn't work I will just spam general chat with how lame you are.
If that doesn't work, I will spam the PvP forum on how much they need to nerf YOUR build so I can kick your @$$!!!

Muahahaa I will own you and have the largest PvP e-peen EVAR!!!!

<disclaimer>: Above text is written in pure humor to illustrate how silly people can act towards PvP. Grieve is a great in game friend of mine that I run quests with on a daily basis. For anyone to take above text seriously, you need to log off the computer and take a serious look at yourself in the mirror. After all, we all know Grieve has ABSOLUTELY no chance in beating me in PvP.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

/moar popcorn

yuda

[Chai]

there's a difference between stating your opinion in a mature manner than just merely posting a derogatory, condescending statement. You guys should take a look at the tones of your own post and ask yourself if it was really warranted or not before complaining*


*i'm not the one passing out neg rep either.

Youre right there is a difference.

Unfortunately, on these forums, most of the time "stating your opinion in a mature manner" = "repper agrees with you" and "just merely posting a derogatory, condescending statement" = "repper disagrees with you."

When it comes to PVP, most people wont even agree on whats considered "fair" and whats considered "cheap" - how could Turbine ever balance this game to a PVP standard? Usually this is what most of the general chat channel jaw jacking is about coming out of the PVP areas. Someone gets beat, doesnt like the tactic the other person used to beat them, and now its a 45 minute flame fest in general chat. Squelch at that point is clearly the best option, as anything else would be adding a few more HD to the fireball...or something like that.