Bug or stealth nerf to force line?

[MindCake]

Force line enhancements have higher prerequisites than other elemental lines.

Eg.
For other elements, first tier of damage requires 0 progression, level 1; for force: 3 progression, level 2.
Same for critical chance and damage. Basically force enhancements are available one level and 4 AP spent later than the equivalent enhancements for other elements.

WAI or bug?

[Trillea]

Force line enhancements have higher prerequisites than other elemental lines.

Eg.
For other elements, first tier of damage requires 0 progression, level 1; for force: 3 progression, level 2.
Same for critical chance and damage. Basically force enhancements are available one level and 4 AP spent later than the equivalent enhancements for other elements.

WAI or bug?

Probably WAI so that FvS and Clerics can't splash 1 level of sorc/wiz to get 20% bonus to BBs.

[Eladrin]

Working as intended, and is listed in the release notes as such (so it wasn't very stealthy).

• Force Manipulation I
  • Prereqs: Level 2 Sorcerer or Wizard
  • Benefit: Grants a 20% increase to the damage of your force spells and spells that deal untyped or physical damage.

[nicro]

Probably WAI so that FvS and Clerics can't splash 1 level of sorc/wiz to get 20% bonus to BBs.

I thought Blade Barrier dealt untyped damage.

[Gulnar13]

The new force spec ench. highten untyped damage too. I for one welcome our disintegrating overlord...

[Ganolyn]

Working as intended, and is listed in the release notes as such (so it wasn't very stealthy).

Why? I am, of course, biased as I have an 18/2 AA Sorc/Ranger that will get screwed out of her last tier because she will never get up to 19th level. So why are Force spec'd being discriminated against?

[Maegin]

cause nothin is resistant to it

[MindCake]

Working as intended, and is listed in the release notes as such (so it wasn't very stealthy).

So okay maybe not totally stealthy. Still, why?

BTW, is it possible that someone's finger slipped somewhere, and then everyone copied it?

cause nothin is resistant to it

I seem to meet plenty of things immune to force.
Untyped - not so much of course, but there's only a handful of spells with that.

[Ganolyn]

cause nothin is resistant to it

Not true, although very little is resistant to it, hence its charm.

[Maegin]

Well, that would explain why it's harder to max. Glad ya solved your own problem

[Ganolyn]

Well, that would explain why it's harder to max. Glad ya solved your own problem

Ummmmm, no.

[Maegin]

ummmmm, No.

+1

[sephiroth1084]

So okay maybe not totally stealthy. Still, why?

BTW, is it possible that someone's finger slipped somewhere, and then everyone copied it?



I seem to meet plenty of things immune to force.
Untyped - not so much of course, but there's only a handful of spells with that.

Because untyped damage is insanely good? It gets:

• Ice Storm - A fairly effective AoE DoT spell that works, at least partially, on basically everything, and works pretty well vs. most of the game.
• Disintegrate - Works on EVERYTHING! Tends to be the best spell for dealing with a lot of constructs and undead and is a very good spell otherwise that was dealing a ton of damage with no enhancement line applied to it at all.
• Horrid Wilting - AoE nuke spell that works on a lot of stuff (how much I can't say because I haven't ever used it before, though that will be changing whenever I log on next).

Plus Magic Missile, Chain Missiles and Force Missiles which are all pretty decent spells.

It's not like the enhancement line is costing more, and preventing it from being an easy splash for +20% on Blade Barrier is reasonable, if that was a design goal.

[Maegin]

Well, that would explain why it's harder to max. Glad ya solved your own problem

Ummmmm, no.

Because untyped damage is insanely good? It gets:

• Ice Storm - A fairly effective AoE DoT spell that works, at least partially, on basically everything, and works pretty well vs. most of the game.
• Disintegrate - Works on EVERYTHING! Tends to be the best spell for dealing with a lot of constructs and undead and is a very good spell otherwise that was dealing a ton of damage with no enhancement line applied to it at all.
• Horrid Wilting - AoE nuke spell that works on a lot of stuff (how much I can't say because I haven't ever used it before, though that will be changing whenever I log on next).

Plus Magic Missile, Chain Missiles and Force Missiles which are all pretty decent spells.

It's not like the enhancement line is costing more, and preventing it from being an easy splash for +20% on Blade Barrier is reasonable, if that was a design goal.

That's why. Oh, and dont forget Meteor Swarm.

So, ummmmm yes. +1

[Solmage]

I have a question re: meteor swarm, is it fire OR force, whichever is higher?

Or is it fire and earth (boulders seem earth-ish...) ?

Also, which of the sorcerer PrEs would boost its caster level, if any?

(I admit I neglected to test this on Lama and today when it occurred to me to test, lama was closed )

[richieelias27]

So okay maybe not totally stealthy. Still, why?

BTW, is it possible that someone's finger slipped somewhere, and then everyone copied it?

If Eladrin says it is working as intended, then you can assume it is working as intended.

@Solmage: Meteor Swarm is Earth or Fire whichever is higher regarding Savant enhancement. Same with Force vs Fire enhancements, whichever is higher.

Cyclonic Blast is also untyped and affected by force line.

[Seikojin]

I have a question re: meteor swarm, is it fire OR force, whichever is higher?

Or is it fire and earth (boulders seem earth-ish...) ?

Also, which of the sorcerer PrEs would boost its caster level, if any?

(I admit I neglected to test this on Lama and today when it occurred to me to test, lama was closed )

It gets buffs from all three. If you have fire buffs, it gets that boost. If you have earth savant, it gets that boost. If you have force boost, it gets that too. Now I dunno how they stack up, but it may.

[Ganolyn]

It gets buffs from all three. If you have fire buffs, it gets that boost. If you have earth savant, it gets that boost. If you have force boost, it gets that too. Now I dunno how they stack up, but it may.

They don't stack, the one with the biggest boost wins out.

[sephiroth1084]

If Eladrin says it is working as intended, then you can assume it is working as intended.

@Solmage: Meteor Swarm is Earth or Fire whichever is higher regarding Savant enhancement. Same with Force vs Fire enhancements, whichever is higher.

Cyclonic Blast is also untyped and affected by force line.

Is it? I thought that got added into the Lightning line? I'd been under the impression that the sonic and air-type spells went to Storm, rather than Force.

[Ganolyn]

Is it? I thought that got added into the Lightning line? I'd been under the impression that the sonic and air-type spells went to Storm, rather than Force.

Cyclonic Blast is enhanced by the Force line as is Horrid Wilting and Disinegrate, which make no sense either, but what they hey we'll take 'em! I suggested in the Lama forums that they should think about adding some sonic spells to Force as well, but got no reply.