Please un-nerf Smite

[eulogy098]

Update 9 has added a very long and slow animation to Smite. It is so slow in fact that it is extremely difficult to land the attack on any target that is moving. So slow in fact that you lose a regular tack (at least one, with 2hf have not tested twf) in the swing time and end up basically just washing any DPS boost that Smite would have done.

Basically- Update9 nerffed paladin DPS by drastically reducing the benefit of Smites. It is no longer part of your regular attack chain, it stops your chain completely and preforms a very long pointlessly spinning animation.

[countfitz]

Serious? *** Turbine. Actually... This is the first time Turbine has nerfed any of my characters, I guess I can't complain. Actually, now I kinda feel like I'm part of the crowd.

[Chai]

That animation used to be part of the attack chain, before it was removed. The attack chain used to be 5 steps instead of the 4 we see today.

[dingal]

It wasn't a nerf dude it's variety! The Websters online dictionary defines variety as any act that completely nullifies the usefulness of the object in question.

Oh wait maybe that definition is wrong.

[78mackson]

The last thing paladins needed was a nerf.. even if DF and zeal got a lower cast time this update...

Oki oki. they still are feasable vs EO-mobs.. but no wonder u see them so rarely in epics.

Divine might needs an instant animation for starters... its a 1 minute buff that takes one minute to cast... Zzz.

[Iwinbyrollup]

Smite Evil was changed. It appears that Exalted Smite, which most people (i.e., everyone that is a high enough level to have Exalted Smite) should be using instead of Smite Evil anyway, is unchanged.

I just tested with a friend. Holding down attack button, press Exalted Smite, and it works seamlessly within the attack sequence. No change. Use Smite Evil and you get the full interrupting spin attack.

Solution: use Exalted Smite instead of Smite Evil, once you can get it. There's no reason not to anyway since they don't have unique use numbers and Exalted Smite is already superior.

Possibly a known issue to be corrected at a later date, but hopefully not.

[Rubiconn]

I hope this last post is true, otherwise Turbine just made Paly's fairly useless. After the change to twf changing the smite time would be crazy bad. I hate to think the animation takes more time than the cool down.

Turbine - Paly's are some of my favorites please leave them alone they have a hard enough time with not enough feats for a melee and high attribute requirements.

[78mackson]

Smite Evil was changed. It appears that Exalted Smite, which most people (i.e., everyone that is a high enough level to have Exalted Smite) should be using instead of Smite Evil anyway, is unchanged.

I just tested with a friend. Holding down attack button, press Exalted Smite, and it works seamlessly within the attack sequence. No change. Use Smite Evil and you get the full interrupting spin attack.

Solution: use Exalted Smite instead of Smite Evil, once you can get it. There's no reason not to anyway since they don't have unique use numbers and Exalted Smite is already superior.

Possibly a known issue to be corrected at a later date, but hopefully not.

.. That kinda explains it. Didnt really notice anything strange to how my paladin played out, other then the 'free' quickened DF and Zeal, but on the other hand, I only played one shroud with my paladin and wasn't paying that much attentention to the animation.

[Furare]

I can confirm that Exalted Smite is unchanged; I ran the Saltire quests on my L14 (now 15) THF paladin with Exalted Smite II and noticed no change in animations or attack rate at all. Smite Evil has been changed, Exalted Smite hasn't. Smite Evil looks kind of cool, though, we tested it against the training dummy and made it glow bright white. I know "looks kind of cool" is no substitute for maxed attack speeds and therefore DPS, but I find that I care more about form than function at L1-5, which is when I would actually be using plain ol' Smite Evil anyway.

[Iwinbyrollup]

Just tested with TWF as well. The TWF Smite Evil is quite a bit faster than the THF Smite Evil, but both are slower than normal attack sequences and both interrupt the attack sequences. The TWF and THF Exalted Smite animations are unchanged as before.

[eulogy098]

The glowing animation with Smite makes me think that the fact that it isnt effecting Exalted Smite is a bug.... please hope its one of those bugs that go months (years) without being fixed. Smiting should never be a reduction to DPS.

[Iwinbyrollup]

The glowing animation with Smite makes me think that the fact that it isnt effecting Exalted Smite is a bug.... please hope its one of those bugs that go months (years) without being fixed. Smiting should never be a reduction to DPS.

Yes. At the very least I hope that if they do include it in the future, they speed it up a bit. Especially the THF one. The TWF one isn't all that bad--it's still not as good as the seamless version, but it's definitely faster than THF.

[eulogy098]

THF animation the character spins two full times! i can actually feel my self aging between the time I hit Smite and the time the animation stops.

Think i should take Sunder and Trip off my paladins hotbar? Pallys dont really have the Combat Feat DC to make those abilities land consistent enough to be worth losing a handful of melee attacks I suspect. Sure you use them al lthe time when there is no penalty but... now that they cost you significant dps are they worth while ?

[Kinerd]

It really makes you wonder about Turbine's organization. They break their backs to change Cleave to work within the animation chain at the exact same time that they change Smite Evil to not work within the animation chain. ...what?

[justagame]

Wow. Seriously, why on earth would they do this? Did someone decide that Paladin dps needed to be reigned in?

I take little comfort in the fact that the attempted nerf was apparently implemented poorly, and missed ex. smite. I now feel like it's only a matter of time...

[Angelus_dead]

Wow. Seriously, why on earth would they do this? Did someone decide that Paladin dps needed to be reigned in?

No, someone forgot that speed matters.

It's the same reason that long ago DDO had Greataxes with a faster swing rate than Falchions. The developers occasionally invert the priorities of game balance and artwork, and put in something that's supposed to look better without paying close attention to what it does to actions-per-second.

[eulogy098]

It is my estimation that the devs' didn't put any thought at all into the technical effect of paladins DPS with the change to animations. They just thought it would look cooler (and it does for sure) and completely overlooked the in-game real-time effect. This is similar to how they originally implemented Cleave. Looks cool. Makes sense. But they forget that speed matters more then just about anything.

It simply never so much as crossed anyones mind that adding these kind of animations (including Sunder and Trip) would actually drastically lower the usefulness of said abilities.

[Iwinbyrollup]

It is my estimation that the devs' didn't put any thought at all into the technical effect of paladins DPS with the change to animations. They just thought it would look cooler (and it does for sure) and completely overlooked the in-game real-time effect. This is similar to how they originally implemented Cleave. Looks cool. Makes sense. But they forget that speed matters more then just about anything.

It simply never so much as crossed anyones mind that adding these kind of animations (including Sunder and Trip) would actually drastically lower the usefulness of said abilities.

I think it's less of an issue for effects like Sunder and Trip--both are used for strategic purposes outside of just "increased DPS on a single hit". Because of that, a sacrifice of a little DPS isn't counterproductive--in the case of Sunder, it is a temporary sacrifice for an increase later and to the rest of the party (if people are having trouble hitting on a 2), and in the case of Trip, it would be a sacrifice for the sake of temporarily preventing damage to the party. At least in the case of Trip, it's like someone choosing to use a Paralyzing weapon. Their DPS is lower, but I would never complain about someone doing it.

While I wouldn't mind not having the sacrifice, those at least make sense. When you take an attack that has the primary purpose of doing increased damage (and the secondary purpose of hitting on a 2 against just about any enemy so long as your paladin isn't severely gimped) and make it lower DPS, that's a problem. I haven't seen/heard any calculations yet, but I presume the THF Smite Evil change would be lower DPS if applied to Exalted Smite. Don't know about TWF; it's likely, but as I noted, that one is significantly faster than the THF animation.

I would prefer if they don't modify Exalted Smite. It's possible they meant to and it's a bug that it doesn't. It's also possible they didn't mean to and it's a bug/mistake that Smite Evil does have a different animation.

[Zachski]

Sunder and Trip don't interrupt your attack chain. At least not as far as I can see.

I think Smite Evil is bugged.

[eulogy098]

Sunder and Trip don't interrupt your attack chain. At least not as far as I can see.

I think Smite Evil is bugged.

Trip and sunder definitely are interrupting my attack chain. Enough that I wont bother using them in the "slight chance it might pass the DC" circumstances at all anymore.


I don't think Smite is bugged, I think it's working exactly as intended, they just didn't realize how significantly it would effect the actual mechanic of the ability. I think exalted smite is bugged, and that they also intended for it to have the animation. I'm just hoping they come to their sense and realize how big a nerf it would be for no benefit other then cosmetics.