Light monk questions

[Mumu720]

I have a level 18+ wis/dex dark monk that i love. However i have noticed his survivability and self sufficiancy go down ever since i got into the shavarath. My ac still has a ways to go before it is at its full potential for this build so that will help a bit, but i am noticing that i need a healer more often than i used to. It fills the main roles of a dark monk perfectly, cc, debuffs, and of course dps. As i reach cap and start thinking about TRing and the gear ill need to grind out for my next life i wonder how much more self sufficiant a light monk be. My question is can a light monk keep him/herself sufficiantly self healed? And how much of a dps loss am i looking at? How effective are the smite tainted creatures, i could see them being more useful towards endgame. Im basically wanting to no if the self healing of a light monk is enough to loose the dps?

Thanks in advance

[edgarallanpoe]

I recently did this and can tell you that IMHO it is absolutely worth it. The loss of DPS is offset by the multitude of light path strikes that hold mobs. IE DPS is irrelevant if the mob is stunned...That being said, you need to make sure that your stunning DC is high enough to make sure it lands.

It would seem to me that this would be especially true now that U9 went live and Ki regen will be an issue. The 50 Ki needed for TOD will not be as easily attainable as the 25 (give or take) for light path strikes.

This has been my take so far, but I haven't had the pleasure of downloading U9 yet and seeing how the Ki regen will work for me.

[Mumu720]

Ok, how often are you able to use the healing? Ive heard that with a ton of healing amp it only does about 70-80 healing, that just seems a bit low to me. I would have the dcs for the stuns. My build when im capped i should be able to get a 42 dc out of my stunning fist.

[ProdigalGuru]

Ki Generation has NOT been changed, the sky is NOT falling.

Certain builds (Crane Path) will not generate as much Ki on Stunned/Held mobs as before due to the removal of auto-crit. This is far from gamebreaking.

As for Light vs. Dark viability, and Amrath:

Amrath is very difficult content, things there hit harder and more often.

Dark and Light paths both get the same Wholeness of Body, and the same choices for Healing Amp.

Fists of Light and Healing Ki are useful supplemental healing, on-par with the usefulness of Touch of Death.

Light path has more immobilization tools, currently, but keep in mind that Ninja Spy III has not been released yet.


I prefer Light path for it's utility, but do sorely miss the Dark path raw damage.

It's mostly a flavor choice.


Edit: In theory, you can spam Healing Ki every 5 seconds or so, but this is not sustainable outside of combat due to a large Ki cost.
(3 Light strikes followed by the finisher)

[sebastianosmith]

My question is

1. Can a light monk keep him/herself sufficiantly self healed?

2. How much of a dps loss am i looking at?

3. How effective are the smite tainted creatures?

1. Well, not easily. You can get a Superior Potency I item, the Jidz-Tet'ka or Levik's bracers and monk healing III (needed for Shintao II) which put you at around 100%-110% amp which will average about 50-80hp per healing finisher. Obviously you can raise that with GS items. My lvl 17 Shintao has spiked as high as 90 on a really good day. She has 300+ hp so realistically about 25%-30% of total is all you're going to get even at lvl 20. The FoL strikes are not going to make up for that as even with an amp of 200% they will produce 3-4hp per hit and whatever you're hitting is usually going to be dead after a few seconds. You'll still need to chug a pot here and there but not as many.

2. ToD is a very effective move but it's pretty expensive ki-wise. With the lessened ki gen in U9, spamming them is not an option any more. However, all elemental strikes now cost but 5 ki. That's 10 for the cost of a single ToD and they can be devastating in the third and forth ranks. I'm no expert by any means but just ball-parking it, Id say light monks are going to be within 10%-15% of DPS compared to the dark side.

3. Smite Tainted, Jade Strike, Dismissing Strike and Tomb of Jade are super effective when they land and vorpal where appropriate. Even when they don't have the vorpal effect they are still pretty sweet. Encasing an orthon in jade makes one feel special.

[sebastianosmith]

Ki Generation has NOT been changed, the sky is NOT falling.

No, the sky is definitely where it has always been but ki gen is a tad bit less than it used to be. It's not a huge decrease and derives only from stunned mobs but it's noticeable. I've yet to have trouble with generating enough to get job done.

[Mumu720]

1. Well, not easily. You can get a Superior Potency I item, the Jidz-Tet'ka or Levik's bracers and monk healing III (needed for Shintao II) which put you at around 100%-110% amp which will average about 50-80hp per healing finisher. Obviously you can raise that with GS items. My lvl 17 Shintao has spiked as high as 90 on a really good day. She has 300+ hp so realistically about 25%-30% of total is all you're going to get even at lvl 20. The FoL strikes are not going to make up for that as even with an amp of 200% they will produce 3-4hp per hit and whatever you're hitting is usually going to be dead after a few seconds. You'll still need to chug a pot here and there but not as many.

2. ToD is a very effective move but it's pretty expensive ki-wise. With the lessened ki gen in U9, spamming them is not an option any more. However, all elemental strikes now cost but 5 ki. That's 10 for the cost of a single ToD and they can be devastating in the third and forth ranks. I'm no expert by any means but just ball-parking it, Id say light monks are going to be within 10%-15% of DPS compared to the dark side.

3. Smite Tainted, Jade Strike, Dismissing Strike and Tomb of Jade are super effective when they land and vorpal where appropriate. Even when they don't have the vorpal effect they are still pretty sweet. Encasing an orthon in jade makes one feel special.

What do smite tainted generally hit for? Also would a halfling with these starting stats and all level ups into wis be a viable light monk? 14str(void4)/18dex/14con/8int/14wis/8char? Also what would be the feat progrssion for a light monk? As i am not familiar with tge prereq feats needed for shintoa? Im thinking if my current build is viable as far as stats go and my feats arent far off ill jist do a feat swap or two and try light for myself.
Edit: also note i am using ultimate wind stance most of the time.

[Chronic_1]

I have a level 20 Horc light monk with 489hp and have no trouble soloing the Amrath wilderness area with no pocket healer. The other posters are right though it is all about healing amp. I took all 3 monk heal amp enhancements, use the Jiz bracers in fire stance for 25% amp, and have 20% on my dt vestments.

Fists of Light heal me for 2-4hp every time I strike an opponent. Because I am in Fire stance, I also generate Ki on every hit. Also with the constant Ki generation you can use your special attacks as much as you want. I use stunning fists, Jade strike, smite evil creatures and FOL. All of those strikes count as a light strike so I can hit my healing finisher for hp. If I happen to get into trouble I drink a pot. Cure serious wound pots heal my monk for an average of 50hp because of his healing amp.

Hope this helps.

[sebastianosmith]

What do smite tainted generally hit for? Also would a halfling with these starting stats and all level ups into wis be a viable light monk? 14str(void4)/18dex/14con/8int/14wis/8char? Also what would be the feat progrssion for a light monk? As i am not familiar with tge prereq feats needed for shintoa? Im thinking if my current build is viable as far as stats go and my feats arent far off ill jist do a feat swap or two and try light for myself.
Edit: also note i am using ultimate wind stance most of the time.

Smite Tainted will do whatever normal damage your str and weapon will plus it adds 2x Wis mod to hit and monk level in damage. If it vorpals, the target has to make a Will save or be encased in a jade tomb. It works against undead, extra-planar non-lawful critters and aberrations.

Halflings make great light monks. If you take the healing marks they can self-heal though most content. With a dex-based build, putting all level ups in Wis will get you to a fairly decent AC and make your Stunning DC pretty high as well. You won't obviously hit as hard. Here is an excellent post with links explaining most design and build philosophies for monks and halflings in particular on a few.

The PreReqs for Shintao are sort of steep. The DDOWiki entry for monks has everything you'll need to know and then some. Unless you have some flavor build in mind, I'd forgo the Rise of the Phoenix path in favor of the Monk Recovery III line. Every PreReq for RotP can be handled by pots or clickies and raise dead for 50 hp/ki is better handled by a cleric. The only problem I see for your current character is that there are no feats in common between the Ninja Spy - if you went that way - and Shintao PreReqs.

Most of my monks stay in wind stance as well for the extra double-strike and attack speed. I will occasional use fire if I really need the ki or water if I need the saves. The prevailing trend, in the forums at least, is for a Str/Wis/Air build but Dex/Wis/Air is more than viable.

Hope you'll find some of this useful.

[Tobril]

I have a level 20 Horc light monk with 489hp and have no trouble soloing the Amrath wilderness area with no pocket healer. The other posters are right though it is all about healing amp. I took all 3 monk heal amp enhancements, use the Jiz bracers in fire stance for 25% amp, and have 20% on my dt vestments.

Fists of Light heal me for 2-4hp every time I strike an opponent. Because I am in Fire stance, I also generate Ki on every hit. Also with the constant Ki generation you can use your special attacks as much as you want. I use stunning fists, Jade strike, smite evil creatures and FOL. All of those strikes count as a light strike so I can hit my healing finisher for hp. If I happen to get into trouble I drink a pot. Cure serious wound pots heal my monk for an average of 50hp because of his healing amp.

Hope this helps.

What this guy said, plus:

You can single pull enemies with kukan-do. Fire it off and let them come to you one at a time if you come accross a large enough pack that fists of light won't keep you up.

[ProdigalGuru]

What do smite tainted generally hit for? Also would a halfling with these starting stats and all level ups into wis be a viable light monk? 14str(void4)/18dex/14con/8int/14wis/8char? Also what would be the feat progrssion for a light monk? As i am not familiar with tge prereq feats needed for shintoa? Im thinking if my current build is viable as far as stats go and my feats arent far off ill jist do a feat swap or two and try light for myself.
Edit: also note i am using ultimate wind stance most of the time.

You would need +2 Str and Con tomes to qualify for Void IV.... and would have to choose Wind or Water Grand Mastery.

There is a feat requirement for Shintao, as well. Diehard or Luck of Heroes seem to be the good choices here.

So, it's likely it would take at least 2 feat swaps (Fists of Light/Darkness is a feat).

Kukan Do is Charisma based DC, ranged stun, with a Will save. I went and bought a +6 item and +2 tome but wish I had put some build points there, just so you know.

Void IV and Shintao is going to make AP very tight as well.

[Mumu720]

You would need +2 Str and Con tomes to qualify for Void IV.... and would have to choose Wind or Water Grand Mastery.

There is a feat requirement for Shintao, as well. Diehard or Luck of Heroes seem to be the good choices here.

So, it's likely it would take at least 2 feat swaps (Fists of Light/Darkness is a feat).

Kukan Do is Charisma based DC, ranged stun, with a Will save. I went and bought a +6 item and +2 tome but wish I had put some build points there, just so you know.

Void IV and Shintao is going to make AP very tight as well.

Ya those stats i gave are from my current lvl 18 dark monk, i have already eaten my +2 str,dex,con,int,wis. I also pretty much always run in ultimate wind and i already have grandmaster wind and master of the others, the only thing im missing for void IV is the 4ap for it, as i am on the 5th rank of lvl18. Im thinking i may cap this guy dark and after i get a good feel for him in epic and what not ill swap the two feats and try light before i tr.

[SpearKicker]

You would need +2 Str and Con tomes to qualify for Void IV.... and would have to choose Wind or Water Grand Mastery.

There is a feat requirement for Shintao, as well. Diehard or Luck of Heroes seem to be the good choices here.

So, it's likely it would take at least 2 feat swaps (Fists of Light/Darkness is a feat).

Kukan Do is Charisma based DC, ranged stun, with a Will save. I went and bought a +6 item and +2 tome but wish I had put some build points there, just so you know.

Void IV and Shintao is going to make AP very tight as well.

It seems that cleave no longer breaks the attack chain, so it would be a good choice (specially in ocasions where you are using special attack wraps, like paralyzning). Not sure about thatthough, just something I have read somewhere in this forums.


Other benefit for been light side is that your your unarmed attacks bypass Silver damage reduction. So you can use a better DPS wraps (like Anarchic burst of pure good or AB of evil outsider bane, if you have holy burst in a ToD ring) in comparison to dark monks (that should have to use a metalline wraps to bypass devil DR).

[Zildoran]

I recently replaced luck of heroes with cleave for the feat for shintao requirements and I'm never going back. Being able to hit multiple mobs with paralyzer, disrupt, banish weapon is much better than +1 to all saves on a class that has pretty high saves in the first place. And it does not break the attack chain in this update .

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Hiya! Xhiron Rhex (Khyber) was Dark monk in first life. And is full Void 4, Shintao 3 in this life. Shintao 3 gives you Silver DR Bypass on UA Attacks, coupled with Holy Burst on Tower of Despair ring = Devil Boss DR breaking with ANY Handwraps. Can you feel it? Silver UA + Holy Burst ToD ring +Epic Wraps of Endless light = AWESOMENESS.

Anyone crying about ki regen nerfed were relying on Crane Stance + Auto Crit for Ki. which is not your only option. As a matter of fact...

In shroud last nite...

1) Took off my Oremis Necklace and Levik Bracers and put on Jidz Tetka and went to Earth stance 3.

2) Solo Tanked Gnoll (not hard I know) but even in Earth Stance, with no Oremis, I ended the fight with a full ki bar (300 max ki) and was spamming these monk attacks in order Void 4, Smite Evil or FoL if Smite on CD, Void 3, Moment of Clarity Finisher, Fist of Iron, Earth 3, Fist of Iron, 3x earth finisher, Electric 4 repeat.

There is no ki regen nerf unless you were relying on 1 single strategy to get ki. I never used crane stance, barely even used stun in first life and had no ki gen issues.

I don't have the highest AC, am a Dex/Wis build with str and con enough to qualify for Void 4 (lots of AP spent)

I solod red named bosses in Amarath Slayer zones with no hireling. Was challenging and fun and very survivable.

[Mumu720]

So i think since the update i havnt been able to spam touch of death, and the fact that ki strikes are soooo cheap im going to get the oremis set, as i only have the necklace, i will see if it allows me to fire it off more often, my guess is that i will end up going to light, i think the loss of the sa damage will be noticable, but the heals seem like it will even it out. Who nos, when ninja assassin III comes out i may go back.

[RobinofSpiritwood]

A fellow Monk guildie with Light Path Solar Build warned me that the Healing Ki is no longed affected by Healing Amp.

[Tobril]

A fellow Monk guildie with Light Path Solar Build warned me that the Healing Ki is no longed affected by Healing Amp.

Not true. It does use monk level instead of character level, however, so that is why people with amp-focused builds are noticing a massive reduction in HP gain from the light finisher.

[REALb0r3d]

Sun stance = ki
If you're in wind stance for the extra attack speed, then that's what the stances are for. They're emphasizing the stances differences lately to let you know, air for speed and dexterity, sun for power and ki, earth for hp and survivability, and water for people that think their saves aren't high enough already that want to tumble for alot of extra AC.

More and more you can't have everything, unless you're a caster.

/runs