Clr/FvS: Does divine punishment do too much damage?

[Forzah]

Hey all,

I've tried out the new spell divine punishment and these are my observations.

-Divine punishment can be cast from a fairly long range and cannot miss if you face the opponent (unlike searing light that can be dodged).
-It does about 100 dmg per tick, when using and maximize empower and 200'ish on a crit.
-The damage can not be resisted.

Divine punishment has thus a great dmg per mana ratio, especially compared to spells like searing light and deific vengeance. I've also tried it out in the brawling arena, and the spell pretty much takes all the fun out of pvp since it's so strong.

What do you think of the new spell?

[Traver]

I think it's just what divine needed. I don't think it does too much dmg at all, considering if you stack it 3 times, that's like 240sp meta'd out.


Where were you on test lol.

[Dlusin]

It is a welcome change and a step in the right direction.
Devine spell damage has only had a few reliable damage spells for a long time, it is nice to have another.


PS. I do not think having a pvp example in there will win you any points.

[justagame]

IMO, one reason it looks so good compared to other divine single-target damage spells, is that those spells are so bad -- really minimal damage when it comes to high level mobs. And until now, there was nothing else all that useful for bosses (except maybe harm, a really tough spell for a FVS to carry).

[Traver]

Additionally, it pales in comparison to the sp efficientcy of archon which does similar damage.

[Alexandryte]

It is also dispellable.

[Durrik7]

Pros

Great singular dps

Enhancable through items AND AP enhancements

Stacks, max 3

Cons

Single target, especially if you're stacking for maximum effect.

Moderate regulation, lasts 15s unless you keep casting. Even with duration nerfs most spells have double or more duration.

As mentioned, dispellable.

IMO, it looks pretty balanced if you want to have contributing DPS strung into your divine with or without melee structure.

[Angelus_dead]

What do you think of the new spell?

It does a bit too much damage; probably it should have a saving throw for half or something.

Any Cleric who puts the APs into Smiting is equally as good at Divine Punishment DPS, without needing good wisdom or spell focus. That's bad.

As to dispellability: the Dispel Magic gameplay of DDO is broken. Dispel is not a viable in-combat choice, and won't be until they allow you to Dispel only buffs or only debuffs.

[Jaid314]

It does a bit too much damage; probably it should have a saving throw for half or something.

Any Cleric who puts the APs into Smiting is equally as good at Divine Punishment DPS, without needing good wisdom or spell focus. That's bad.

As to dispellability: the Dispel Magic gameplay of DDO is broken. Dispel is not a viable in-combat choice, and won't be until they allow you to Dispel only buffs or only debuffs.

that describes exactly how break enchantment works, no?

[Forzah]

Actually, it might be pretty balanced in pve. I've only tested it in the arena yet, where it seems on the powerful side.

[Fejj]

Actually, it might be pretty balanced in pve. I've only tested it in the arena yet, where it seems on the powerful side.

Win

And thank you for the coming nerf to balance out PvP.

[joneb1999]

Win

And thank you for the coming nerf to balance out PvP.

Im pretty sure they dont balance for pvp in any way whatsoever in DDO. But, they sure may nerf it if they are convinced its op for pve.

[Farayon]

Actually, it might be pretty balanced in pve. I've only tested it in the arena yet, where it seems on the powerful side.

So you want a spell that is well balanced in PvE to be nerfed into uselessness because you feel it is OP in PvP? It's people like you who make me wish that Devs should never ever listen to anything we players say ever again.

[Forzah]

So you want a spell that is well balanced in PvE to be nerfed into uselessness because you feel it is OP in PvP? It's people like you who make me wish that Devs should never ever listen to anything we players say ever again.

I don't want it nerfed per se, it's a nice spell. Dmg output just seems on the high side, compared to searing light for instance.

[TheKaige]

I absolutely LOVE Divine Punishment; the idea of a NO-SAVE single target DoT to give Clerics something to do against boss/raid monsters when they aren't squeezed for healing juice is great.

That said, I am of the mind that Divine Punishment needs a nerf; here's why:

Niac’s Biting Cold: Cost of 20 sp. Spell does 1d6+1 per level in cold damage, and has a duration of 16 seconds. Cooldown is 10 seconds. This damage over time spell can stack up to 3 times on a target, and can be Quickened, Enlarged, Empowered, or Maximized.

Eladar's Electric Surge: Same thing, except it does electric damage.

Divine Punishment: Same thing, except it costs 25 SP, and does light damage.

For 5 extra SP, Divines have a spell that does the same damage as it's arcane equivalent, but there are almost no monsters resistant to light, and to my knowledge, no monsters immune to light damage; Divine Punishment is largely a SUPERIOR spell to it's arcane equivalent.

I don't think that there should be a large nerf to the spell; hell, maybe the better argument is that Biting Cold and Electric Surge need buffed; but when it comes to Damage spells, Arcanes are, by nature, supposed to be better.

Reducing Divine Punishment from 1d6+1/level to just 1/level would be suffice imo.

[Gratch]

It's a very nice DoT, but just one shining example in an otherwise poor arsenal that Divines have.

Maybe you haven't seen it yet, but we now have electric savant sorcs stealing aggro from our melees w/o problem even though the melees have been beating bosses down for a while. AoE 3k+ crits along with their dots are common for sorcs now. Divines aren't even in the same zipcode of U9 arcane (esp Sorc) damage.

Divine Punishment is nice, but it's not even Melf's quality comparing my Earth Savant SLA to my FvS. Though it will be nice for some undead.

[HarveyMilk]

When Divine Avenger and T3 of AoV are added, they could change Divine Punishment to have a will save for half dmg.

Divine Avenger will boost all the wis dumpers' melee damage, so they won't cry too hard.



BTW, here's one idea for T3 AoV, to be released after clerics get domains and we see a fire dot divine spell: a new metamagic, called Miracle.

When Miracle is toggled on, all your offensive spells are considered light for the purpose of bypassing resistances, but gain a will save for 0 dmg. So if you have max wis you're fine. And against some huge will save boss, you have your friendly arcane debuff them. Or you just turn off the meta.

[darksol23]

I love the PrE and I love Divine Punishment...

I got to test it out last night for the first time in a raid. It was great in ToD... Toss my crown to a high-dps low-ac melee and watch the curses roll in. After a few curse procs the purple numbers were over 800 and a saw a few around 1100 on the shadowmaster. The melee in our guild group noticed a difference with all the purple numbers too, I think our KOTC had to change his pants. It's nice to be able to contribute more to raids without being a full melee spec'd FvS. (Yes I know the melee FvS can still melee + Divine Punishment and still contribute yet more DPS, hopefully AoV III will be a real "caster" PrE) I had no problems healing while keeping Divine Punishment going full on.

Outside of raids though I haven't used it much except for end-of-quest bosses and mini-bosses that have enough HP to make it worth keeping up the ticks.

[protokon]

spells works great.

gives me something to do on top of healing a raid tank / party. It's fun stacking it 3 times and watching it crit for 900+.

[Matuse]

For 5 extra SP, Divines have a spell that does the same damage as it's arcane equivalent, but there are almost no monsters resistant to light, and to my knowledge, no monsters immune to light damage; Divine Punishment is largely a SUPERIOR spell to it's arcane equivalent.

For 19 AP, a Wiz/Sorc can take Element Manipulation VII, Deadly Element IV, and Element Crit Chance VI, which gives +50% damage, a base 9% critical rate, and a crit multiplier of 225%.

That's not including things like the Sorc capstone, savant boosts, major lore, etc.

For 22 AP, a Cleric/FvS can take Smiting IV, Prayer Of Smiting III, and Incredible Smiting III, which gives +40% damage, a base 9% critical rate, and a crit multiplier of 225%.

So, more AP for less boost.

Sure, light works on nearly everything, but hell, so does electricity. Only demons and flesh golems are immune to it. Acid works similarly, with a few ooze types, the elementals in Acid Wit, and not a lot else. Fire and Cold suffer immunity issues, but they also have a good selection of things that automatically take purple damage. Light only has vampires and maybe Whisperdoom.

I'm definitely going to have to pay a visit to Church & Cult, and slap the living hell out of that dude, now that I think about it. Payback for YEARS of his antics.

The spell is fine. It doesn't need any changes at all, except maybe a graphical effect when you cast it. Currently there's not much going on except waving your arms around.

Divines FINALLY get a reasonably effective single target damage spell, and you want it slapped down? Why? Arcanes run circles around Divines for damage. Arcanes run circles around Divines for insta-death. Is a single target spell that we can actually enjoy using instead of having to suffer through really so much?