Six months without endgame content... Change this, please.

[Postumus]

Some players perhaps.
Players like myself?
Nah they don't get a cent of me TR'ing. I have several hundred epic tokens at my disposal, so I would never resort the ddo store for my hearts.

I also don't buy any kind of consumable from the ddo store. Not xp pots, not anything.

If this is the case, why would Turbine spend money developing content for players who basically play the game for free? Even when the new content packs come out, my bet is players such as yourself have so many TPs earned from favor that you don't need to dip into the wallet for much real money for that either.


All that said, I wonder if the 5% figure for players who play epic content will increase b/c of the changes from the new update? More players playing epic might mean more resources devoted to that? Or perhaps there is something grander in the works that would make 'epic' content obsolete?


However from Fernando's recent letter, it sounds like devs will be focusing more on creating mini-game type content - like crystal cove - so players can log in for a 30 -60 mins and just play the mini games. I wouldn't think that bodes well for epics.


In the end, the market will dictate where the dev resources will go. Unless a much larger percentage of the paying population plays epics, then epics will probably continue to be a low priority.

[sephiroth1084]

We need more adventure packs that feature all of:

• 5+ quests, at least two of which clock in at 40+ minutes for players running them for their first few times.
• 1 raid or major capstone quest in the area.
• An explorer zone.

Red Fens was a pretty decent pack with 2 very short quests, 1 medium length quest and 1 long quest in addition to an explorer zone, but it felt a little light. That it offered epic difficulty helped this a bit, because it targeted a very wide range of players (level 7-12, level 20).

The Carnival was pretty poor with 2 medium length quests, 1 longer, quest (many dislike its repetitive objectives) and a rather short concluding quest (even if you actually follow the path) and no explorer zone.

Amrath was probably the last pack we received that really hit all the key points with 4 medium to long quests that pose a challenge and variety, 2 short easy quests, an explorer zone and a raid.

Honestly, if the devs aren't releasing stuff at least on par with Amrath, they need to be releasing content packs every 2-3 months, not this 3-6 month stuff. I'd really like to see more releases of a caliber similar to that of Gianthold (4 long, hard quests, 6 short to medium length quests of moderate difficulty, a raid and an explorer zone).

[KillEveryone]

I would love to see a new level 20 raid. What I dont want to see is another big frackin devil boss which needs silver/good to break DR. Something completely off the evil outsider bandwagon would be a nice breath of fresh air.

I agree with this.

I'm a bit burned out on devils. This is why I hadn't gotten into Amarath much before recently. Just got tired of bearded devils and orthons, and those freaking cats or the fiend version of critters.

[Seikojin]

What else do you do with the 500 points you receive each month?

If I was vip, I would buy 30 slots, races, classes, extras, banks, then I would buy a heart for each life I want my main to do for completionist. Then stockpile for the inevitble day that I switch to premium and buy all the content.

I didn't go that route. Instead I paid for all the adventure packs I could (up to red fens, which is next on my list).

[Postumus]

Running the same end-game quests over and over sounds boring to me... And with your highly organized high-powered guild, they sound like cakewalks too... And most epic gear just gives you 1%-2% more power.

I enjoy TRing because I DON'T repeat the same quests over and over... I don't run 30 quests 8x n, h, e and that's it... I run most of the 200+ quests in the game... Sure, it's slow, but I'm playing the entire game.

I'm not grinding through the same content over and over and over mechanically like this is a database entry job. Like most end-game raiders, and most "TR in 3 days" players do.

You don't understand my playstyle... I don't understand your playstyle. You can't imagine paying $10 for a True Heart... I can't imagine spending 10 hours getting tokens...

Let's agree to disagree.

My playstyle is pretty close to Thrudh's.


As a new player who isn't very gear driven, I still really enjoy rolling up a class/race combo with a twist that is different from the one I played before. I like to optimize characters, but I don't like cookie cutter toons, and I like to see for myself how a build will/will not play out.


I prefer this to running the same raids over and over hoping for a different gear drop.

[maddmatt70]

It is almost certainly a fact that the end game use to include more then 5% of the population in the history of this game. It is also likely that other games have a larger % of their gaming population that play the end game. This is actually a problem that DDO has i.e. DDO fails to cater enough toward end game players.

[KillEveryone]

I don't understand how people can complain that they are filling in gaps from the 12-20 range. This range is filling out nicely, the quests are pretty darn fun and original, and we're getting updates ever few months. I've played other games that never got updates, were offline all the time for bug fixes, and STILL forced you to pay them every month...

Someone made a graph of quests and their level range a while back.

It dropped off a lot around lvl 12. If you are going to TR, this is when XP starts to really matter more and you will most likely have banked XP so that you can get through this hump. Then you start to repeat quests a bit more often just to get through it.

Low levels, there is so many quests that you don't really have much trouble getting XP. It is the later levels.

For me, some of those higher level quests I just don't care to run and would rather run a different quest but with the XP needed, I would end up farming some of the quests I don't care to run that often.

[Thrudh]

Its then just a total farm of the same easy quest 8 or so times in a row and then the next quest 8 times in a row.

Don't do that, and TRing will be a lot more fun.

[grodon9999]

Don't do that, and TRing will be a lot more fun.

Who has time for fun when we have epics to grind?

I'm only half kidding . . .

[Thrudh]

While endgame content is nice and fun and all, having too much of it will turn this game into every other backend-heavy MMO out there. I hated those games because everything turned uberloot intensive and you HAD to be capped level to enjoy the best parts of the game. This game currently does not have that problem. There is interesting and fun content at every level of play, which is quite a feat imho.

Also, to those who have been here forever like Shade, of course DDO doesn't care that much about you guys! You admitted you don't buy from their store. They most certainly know this, as I'm sure they have stats showing how often long-term players use the store vs. shorter term players. You can't blame a business for going after the key target markets where the money is. They allow you to play for free, and a LOT of those who have been in this game for 5 years (if not all of them) aren't running subscriptions because they know how to grind out favor to avoid paying a cent for the game they've loved for 5 years.

I don't understand how people can complain that they are filling in gaps from the 12-20 range. This range is filling out nicely, the quests are pretty darn fun and original, and we're getting updates ever few months. I've played other games that never got updates, were offline all the time for bug fixes, and STILL forced you to pay them every month...

I understand you 5% are very vocal and REALLY want Epic changes, but you are the minority. If you really wanted to enact change in the way Turbine looks at Epics, perhaps you should drive up the amount of interest in them yourself? Start getting people newer to the game hooked on leveling and help them get to 20 to show them the Epic ropes? Something that makes that 5% go to 25% might get Turbines attention.

Before this drags out a few more pages... /rant off

Excellent post +100

I also liked Shade telling Turbine that he spends nothing on the game, but they should be catering to his needs instead of the newbs....

[maddmatt70]

Excellent post +100

I also liked Shade telling Turbine that he spends nothing on the game, but they should be catering to his needs instead of the newbs....

Just more evidence that Turbine does a poor job of doing business at the end game. They should be able to generate alot of business at the end game as well as with newbs, but fail to do so. The end game population has been decreasing for years and the end game population does not spend money on the business as they could. If Turbine had a real investment and strategy with their end game they could reap alot more money, but sadly they do not.

[grodon9999]

Just more evidence that Turbine does a poor job of doing business at the end game. They should be able to generate alot of business at the end game as well as with newbs, but fail to do so. The end game population has been decreasing for years and the end game population does not spend money on the business as they could. If Turbine had a real investment and strategy with their end game they could reap alot more money, but sadly they do not.

Yes, and their biggest mistake was making "epic" instead of level 20, 21, 22, etc . . . missions with a normal/hard/elite setting that people of different skill/gear-levels could all enjoy and play.

I don't really know if the rest of what you're saying has and basis in factual reality. There are a lot MORE people running endgame now there there was a year ago, we're just not the majority.

[maddmatt70]

Yes, and their biggest mistake was making "epic" instead of level 20, 21, 22, etc . . . missions with a normal/hard/elite setting that people of different skill/gear-levels could all enjoy and play.

I don't really know if the rest of what you're saying has and basis in factual reality. There are a lot MORE people running endgame now there there was a year ago, we're just not the majority.

Yes, and I have no evidence to back up my claims, but I was stating they could grow the 5% of the gaming population that others band about as fact and generate more business from that 5%+ of the gaming population.

[Hafeal]

Running the same end-game quests over and over sounds boring to me... And with your highly organized high-powered guild, they sound like cakewalks too... And most epic gear just gives you 1%-2% more power.

I enjoy TRing because I DON'T repeat the same quests over and over... I don't run 30 quests 8x n, h, e and that's it... I run most of the 200+ quests in the game... Sure, it's slow, but I'm playing the entire game.

I'm not grinding through the same content over and over and over mechanically like this is a database entry job. Like most end-game raiders, and most "TR in 3 days" players do.

You don't understand my playstyle... I don't understand your playstyle. You can't imagine paying $10 for a True Heart... I can't imagine spending 10 hours getting tokens...

Let's agree to disagree.

+1, I agree to agree with you.

I just had a quick look and MysticTheurge is still the reigning champ at 19,367 posts and that with not having logged on since December 2009.

I think Borror0 is the now reigning champ by thousands: http://forums.ddo.com/member.php?u=37042; although he has slowed down his forum activity a bit over the last half year or so.

[grodon9999]

Yes, and I have no evidence to back up my claims, but I was stating they could grow the 5% of the gaming population that others band about as fact and generate more business from that 5%+ of the gaming population.

Those other players are already playing the game though, it's pulling from the same pool of paying customers. More "epics" isn't going to get them more into end-game as you really need about 6 months of gearing and experience to do more than pike. TRing and making alts seems like the logical thing to do if you aren't that hardcore.

Power-gaming really is a mental-disorder and most people just won't take things as seriously as we do to the point of building/equipping toons to crush this content.

[Aelonwy]

Power-gaming really is a mental-disorder ....

Ok so I'm an altaholic... what's your disorder called?

[sephiroth1084]

I think Borror0 is the now reigning champ by thousands: http://forums.ddo.com/member.php?u=37042; although he has slowed down his forum activity a bit over the last half year or so.

Without a doubt. A posts/day count of 15+ will do that for you.

Though I think 'slowed' is not the right word. 'Stopped' is more likely. His last post was in February, and before that was in December.

I've chatted with him a bit in the last few months, and he's not been involved with anything on the forums or in game for a while. Busy with other stuff I think. From what I understood, he hadn't been playing a whole lot for a while even before the reduced forum presence.

Personally, I'd like him to continue to be a force on the forums.

[countfitz]

It is almost certainly a fact that the end game use to include more then 5% of the population in the history of this game. It is also likely that other games have a larger % of their gaming population that play the end game. This is actually a problem that DDO has i.e. DDO fails to cater enough toward end game players.

While I actually like that DDO is coming out with content at 13+ range in small increments, I think maddmatt has a point.

We all see the 5% issue as "since only 5% of the population of DDO plays endgame, lets cater to the other 95%" whereas the actual issue is "Only 5% of this game is endgame, so we have nothing to do but TR and do the other 95%"

Since we don't have endgame options, of course there aren't as many endgame players. Endgame is tediuous and boring.

And, DDO is hopefully fixing that with the DOOO0ooMMmMM!!!1!!!1 changes coming to Epics to make them more fun.

Lucky for me I like a game that is not WoW or whatever that forces all the game to be played by ubergeared endgame players, but one that you can enjoy the leveling experience as much as capping. I do feel sorry for powergamers though.

Also, maddmatt got it right saying Shade etc. don't spend money on this game, it's because they don't have to/up to some point, you could even say can't. With no new challenge or content, what could they spend money on? DDO could be making quests that could actually challenge Shade (right, challenge Shade, that'll be the day) but they don't

[Gkar]

It is almost certainly a fact that the end game use to include more then 5% of the population in the history of this game. It is also likely that other games have a larger % of their gaming population that play the end game. This is actually a problem that DDO has i.e. DDO fails to cater enough toward end game players.

Or DDO just has a different concept. TR is the end game for many people.

[Thucydides04]

While I actually like that DDO is coming out with content at 13+ range in small increments, I think maddmatt has a point.

We all see the 5% issue as "since only 5% of the population of DDO plays endgame, lets cater to the other 95%" whereas the actual issue is "Only 5% of this game is endgame, so we have nothing to do but TR and do the other 95%"

Since we don't have endgame options, of course there aren't as many endgame players. Endgame is tediuous and boring.

And, DDO is hopefully fixing that with the DOOO0ooMMmMM!!!1!!!1 changes coming to Epics to make them more fun.

Lucky for me I like a game that is not WoW or whatever that forces all the game to be played by ubergeared endgame players, but one that you can enjoy the leveling experience as much as capping. I do feel sorry for powergamers though.

Also, maddmatt got it right saying Shade etc. don't spend money on this game, it's because they don't have to/up to some point, you could even say can't. With no new challenge or content, what could they spend money on? DDO could be making quests that could actually challenge Shade (right, challenge Shade, that'll be the day) but they don't

Every pack since MOD 9 was released featured endgame content in the form of epics/quests etc. until the release of Update 8. Every update does not need to have new endgame content. I especially agree since there is very little content offered for players between levels 15-19.

I think turbine is taking some nice steps to fix some things that were initially muffed as well. Epic overhaul was much needed (and would still like to see AC be relevant in there), crafting was a wreck besides shroud and now that is being addressed, PREs are being delivered slowly ...

If running raids/chasing loot is all you want to do, then maybe consider a break or trying something new