With the new changes ... bring back scrolls

[richieelias27]

Is he even playing the same game as me?

Wall of Fire - Initial reflex save only on entry. Shield blocking inside Wall of Fire means no saves after the first - Everything will take damage except for the first tick

Acid Rain - Same as above

Ice Storm - No saves, partial bludgeoning damage

Enervate - As explained already, no save. (magically add a will save for no reason other than to balance a crappy scroll? I think not. Casters would quit the game if a ridiculous idea like this were even contemplated.)

Symbol of Death - Kite till they fail for happy time aoe level drain. (No save? I cant test the new changes for this one on Lama)

Evasion mobs - Very rare, small portion of content

As for usefulness of these abilities in scroll form vs casted with metamagics and enhancements - irrelevant. Either they are almost the same as if cast by a level 20 Arcane, or they are pathetic in form of DPS. Either way it is 100% not worth including in an update even if it only took 5 seconds to code. And that, I think, is the most important point.

[Drfirewater79]

I think you are blowing things WAY out of proportion to make your point. I can't fathom how deconstruct a level 5 power into say 30 smaller essences and some plat constitutes the same as grinding for items like fragrant. I've done fragrant runs and it'll take a real bunch of quests to get enough to matter.

So please, if you have a point against crafting scrolls I'd like for us to at least argue with realistic numbers instead.

Reversely while you are against crafting you are for keeping it a guild vendor only; what if people have low level guilds or simply don't want to join guilds? Isn't that exactly as saying what if I don't want to craft? The differense is that with crafting you can buy them from someone selling them while if you keep it through guild vendor you can't unless you're part of a guild.

If you have 2 people running party crashers on lvl 20s you can get 10 Fragrants in less then 1 hour. They dont have ransack on collectables etc.

It takes 1 week of leveling one toon to get access to guild vendors. Crafting system requires you to use the crafting system which is horrible at its base roots .. requires them to program something new(which if you know anything about turbine means it wont get done and if it does it will break 60 other things). Scrolls already existed in the game once ... the reason i suggested guild vendor is because it forces bound to character .. prevents trading scrolls and provides a one time pre req.

You dont even need to join a guild .. it takes very little effort to reach guild vendor levels. And encouraging grouping and guilding has always been Turbines focus with DDO.

Crafting is new ... they dont even know if it works and adding new crafting ingredients or turn in values is something they have NEVER done. Point of fact .. no greensteel handwraps.

[Drfirewater79]

Is he even playing the same game as me?

Wall of Fire - Initial reflex save only on entry. Shield blocking inside Wall of Fire means no saves after the first - Everything will take damage except for the first tick

30 second timer one tick every what 3 seconds so 10 ticks missing the first tick and immune or resistant mobs from lvl 16 up ...

Acid Rain - Same as above same as above low dps and no where near OP

Ice Storm - No saves, partial bludgeoning damage I am all for some scrolls being restricted if there is good reason ... But this spell is so weak in damage that it doesnt even matter and low duration.

Enervate - As explained already, no save. (magically add a will save for no reason other than to balance a crappy scroll? I think not. Casters would quit the game if a ridiculous idea like this were even contemplated.)

Its just as easy to keep that from coming back

Symbol of Death - Kite till they fail for happy time aoe level drain. (No save? I cant test the new changes for this one on Lama)

Again that is a perfect example of a spell that would be OP and thus could be refused.

Evasion mobs - Very rare, small portion of content

Did you even play on lama? All devils have evasion on lama .. all trogs .. all cats .. that is what 80% of all the content above lvl 16?

As for usefulness of these abilities in scroll form vs casted with metamagics and enhancements - irrelevant. Either they are almost the same as if cast by a level 20 Arcane, or they are pathetic in form of DPS. Either way it is 100% not worth including in an update even if it only took 5 seconds to code. And that, I think, is the most important point.

how does that effect harm scroll needed for pale masters ... How does lack luster DPS make not having the scrolls a bad thing? How does bad DC matter ...

as i said just dont add the scrolls that dont have a save or that present an obviously unfair advantage or make a user OP.

[patang01]

If you have 2 people running party crashers on lvl 20s you can get 10 Fragrants in less then 1 hour. They dont have ransack on collectables etc.

It takes 1 week of leveling one toon to get access to guild vendors. Crafting system requires you to use the crafting system which is horrible at its base roots .. requires them to program something new(which if you know anything about turbine means it wont get done and if it does it will break 60 other things). Scrolls already existed in the game once ... the reason i suggested guild vendor is because it forces bound to character .. prevents trading scrolls and provides a one time pre req.

You dont even need to join a guild .. it takes very little effort to reach guild vendor levels. And encouraging grouping and guilding has always been Turbines focus with DDO.

Crafting is new ... they dont even know if it works and adding new crafting ingredients or turn in values is something they have NEVER done. Point of fact .. no greensteel handwraps.

Can we please have a argument about what I proposed as suppose to what crafting is right now, speculate what it will be, what we know about Turbine and such things?

There are people who don't want to be in guilds, don't want to 'buy' a guild charter to create one. 2 people running a quest over and over for an hour is not the same as 1 person getting a end reward for running a quest and then deconstruct for the pawltry essences I suggest. Nor can you compare leveling say 10 in divine etc to make mass heals the same as having to guild level up by running quests all day for a week.

I get it. You want to be able to buy scrolls and I'd like it to be a function of crafting to balance some of the rarity and at the same time make sure there is ample supply and promote player based economy. But it doesn't matter in the end; while I would never substitute a scroll BB for a divine spell BB I'm sure someone would love to toy with it and I agree.

[richieelias27]

how does that effect harm scroll needed for pale masters ... How does lack luster DPS make not having the scrolls a bad thing? How does bad DC matter ...

as i said just dont add the scrolls that dont have a save or that present an obviously unfair advantage or make a user OP.

Did I say anything about Harm scrolls? From the sound of things you are advocating making all spells buyable at vendors or somesuch. To me, that is not a venture worth partaking in. Add select individual scrolls? Sure, why not. As for the scrolls which were specifically removed (Wall of Fire for instance) I see no justifiable reason to add them back.

And yes, if Amrath is the ONLY thing you run past level 16, then yes, evasion is 80% of YOUR content (Though probably still more like... 30% or 40%). That is not, however, 80% of ALL content past 16.

Also, the scrolls I remarked upon start at Item Level 7. What relevance does that have to end game content? Why would you even bring that up? Do you have some sort of favor reward that starts all your toons at level 20? If so, how did you get it? Can I have it?