The Fockers of Argo
LOOON (Rogue); Reaperbait (Warlock); Eatuhdiq (Sorc); Fuglymofo (Barbarian)
Buttscracher (Arty), Hobaggin (Druid)
Rogues are tough for shroud as they are pretty reliant on both a cha skills item and a hp item. This means 20 shroud runs minimum to get the cleansing essence.
Add to that the fact that for optimal dps they will want both a set of min II's, lit II's and at least one rad II although two is often better.
Epic smallblade helped here as it reduced the need for one lit II as dps is better with the smallblade in the off hand.
Rogues also rely on the most stats versus any other character.
Str Con Dex Cha Int are all good to have and accomodating those in a gear set is rough without the consolidation available from raid/epic gear.
As far as the quote in the op it's true rogues should do a far bit of endgame before tr'ing. Not only is the gear relevant as it helps you get back to 20 much faster but it also allows you to know how the character will play and help you solidify the build choices for future lifes. Granted this is relevant for any class.
I may or may not bother with a litII. I prefer charging in like a barb with my RadII clearing my path but that's just how I like to play. First in, last out (and no I hardly ever die on my rogue ;P )
I totally agree with the quote in the OP and echo what you just said about choices for the future. I'm not a big TR type of guy because grinding really wears me down but the first TR is pretty easy. Having TR'ed and picked up my GS weapons at level 12 I would never even consider doing it without having my items crafted. There;s something to be said for the raw power of greensteel at level 12.
I wouldn’t call them “the most gear dependant”. That distinction goes to arcane casters. I find I switch weaponsets/gear way more on a caster than on a rogue.
I would call them “The most frustrating to gear up at cap.” They have a bunch of enchantments that they want to slot that are more optional for other classes. ex. Threat reduction (Which seems to be exclusively on set bonuses nowadays), Bonus HP items, Sneak Attack Items and quickswappable items for skill bonuses.
Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
- Epic and Legendary Mysterious ring upgrades, please.
- Change the stack size of filigree in the shared bank to 50. The 5 stack makes the shared bank worthless for storing filigree in a human usable manner.
- Fixing why I don't connect to the chat server for 5 minutes when I log into a game world.
- Fixing the wonky Lightning Sphere and Tactical Det firing by converting them to use alchemist spell arcing.
- Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.
If you want to play your Rogue like a Barb, then yes, you need a lot of gear. And not a lot of rogue-specific skill.
But why not just make a Barb if you're inclined that way? Barbs are hella fun.
If you have a Rad rapier, you can basically ignore a lot of the efforts to do aggro management, and can play as a Fighter would- but doesn't that essentially simply make you a hard-hitting fighter? If you have the HP and AC of a full on melee class, why can't you tank with damage doing the aggro?
Shouldn't we widen our own skill base as players, and try to play different builds differently? What's the point of having different classes if there's just "one way to play"?
The focus on getting gear, matching gear, upgrading gear, slotting gear, storing gear --- we have become the Dragons. It's all about that big pile of possessions. It's essentially the same as working and trying to get richer- there's less fun, more drudgery. And the gear/gold/demand is just escalating over the years.
That's not why I play.
I'm here to have fun, not amass digital loot.
One of my rogues is capped, and has never run the shroud once. There's still loads to do, places to go, folks to meet, adventures to have. You want a challenge? Try an at-level quest with just Masterwork gear.
If a Rogue is going to be gear dependent, then it comes down to how you spend your Ability Points to set your Rogues Stats. Yes, if you use Int and Wis as a dump stats then you are going to need gear to make up for the short comings. Be a "I know where the trapboxes are" rogue and you start to dump wisdom because you don't need to "Notice" that there is a trap or secret door there. Dump intelligence for higher strength scores and you will need to have search items to find traps and doors. Dump charisma because you want extra stat points in con and dex, then you well need UMD items so you can use scrolls, wands, and restricted gear. If you don't have to be the Kill Count Leader, or don't care you have to take one more swing to kill a monster, then you can find the sweet spot for Stat Point Spread so you can be a more balance Rogue and not very dependent on gear.
While I agree with you in principle that you can in fact dump str and con you probably (almost certainly) shouldn't.
It's not as black and white as you've painted it. In high level raids like TOD Elite if you can't help to finish the raid more quickly because you've gimped your DPS then you're a liability that may end up costing people mana pots or extra scrolls.
You can get away with being a flavor build, or a low con trapmonkey in a lot of areas, most of the game in fact, but the more punishing quests that need high DPS like epic DA, epic Chrono, Elite TOD will quickly highlight a soft spot in the dps department.
Rogues are one of the few classes that can "do it all and do it well" in terms of UMD, incredible DPS, traps, locks, buffs, rez etc. so there's no reason to leave out what is ultimately the most important thing in the game: high dps. My opinion, and I'm admittedly a min/maxer so you may not share my views.
why do people play rogues if they don't like the different aspects of a character types specific development?
we are a different lot then the rest of the classes, the quirks are there because we are thieves and such, and because we also can get more out of the role-play of the game.
we don't walk or talk like the others but i bet we have a hell of a lot more fun playing the game...
i wanted to think of something funny to say but i just realized i could be watching people die in traps right now...
my only thought on gear with rogues is that there's a thieves creed and we should all remember it: share what you got .
~Fumblesz
Guild: Heck Yeah (guild leader, and basically sole only active member)