Our turn next update Devs please! - Finesse builds

[Aesop]

On the AC score... where is the AC benefit when there are mass cures being thrown around for over healing.

Add in passable Agro management and AC value drops again

[Missing_Minds]

Ah, choices to be made. And when things don't go your way you can do one of a few options.

1. complain and hope that maybe whining will cause changes.
2. present factual data for your case and attempt to make changes happen over a long period of time.
3. realize that is the choice you made for better or apparently worse,
a. adapt and become a better player.
b. TR and start over.
c. Lesser and fix the supposed issues with your character.

Finesse builds, in my opinion, lost true viability LONG LONG ago when the change to stat damaging was done. No, I'm not talking con death, I'm talking way before that, back when on hit caused stat damage, not on damage.

Now, nothing says Finesse builds can't vorpal with the rest of them, and guess what, come U9 you can again!

I do wonder how many of the people saying finesse needs changes are playing monk or rouge builds. I mean mostly monk builds get unarmed attacks that beat dr/- just from dice damage in a good chunck of cases, and rogues have sneak attack that really add in dps.

[Asketes]

Drizzt is more dex based than str so should that build not be viable? it is in pnp. It was in ddo previously until all the changes.no it wasn't

This is not and has not ever been pnp, this is a video game with a D&D theme. They've always bent the rules and/or created their own to suite the needs of the game.

[grodon9999]

Make AC viable throughout the whole game and these threads will stop popping up every 2-3 days.

It can be done now as we have SO much more DPS gear available from the past year that you give up a hell of a lot more DPS slotting for AC than you used to. Between Claw set (versus Epic Spectrals and AC 8 Bracers), Redscale (over Icy Rainments for PJ wearers), Holy/Burst/Blast versus an insight-weapon, and a second ToD set (say ravager over Chattering ring) we're talking 20+ a swing.

I still think a DEX-toon should swing faster, Weapon Finesse should give you stacking double-strike equal to your DEX bonus (as should Tempest III).

[BananaHat]

A ranged pass is supposed to be next, it was stated it would be next after the spell pass. Makes sense with deepwood sniper 2 coming up in the somewhat nearish future. (Along with ninja spy 3 I think)

[Asketes]

A ranged pass is supposed to be next, it was stated it would be next after the spell pass. Makes sense with deepwood sniper 2 coming up in the somewhat nearish future. (Along with ninja spy 3 I think)

I can see it now

Instead of beefing up ranged DPS, they will scale down all melee DPS to the same output as ranged.

/sigh

[SableShadow]

I do wonder how many of the people saying finesse needs changes are playing monk or rogue builds.

Edit in rouge.

[grodon9999]

I can see it now

Instead of beefing up ranged DPS, they will scale down all melee DPS to the same output as ranged.

/sigh

LOL - with the U9 nerfs ranged needs love, the helplessness change hurts bows terribly, possibly as bad as picks.

[VonBek]

That sexy shoeless god of war, the halfling ranger using daggers needs to be balanced with the raging barbarian with the big two handed axe.

While my Finesse/Perforator feels a bit glum, these days, don't forget that sexy shoeless god of war has a cat. I think it would help if Halfling Rangers with the Weapon Finesse feat could dual wield cats. How could that not make a Barbarian happier?

[scampb]

I have a dex based finesse Rogue, Wisspering (L17 now, sig not updated). She does just fine the way she is and does not need STR to be viable. I can lead, or be close to leading, kills in most quests (Monks still take me to town). Min/Max'ing aside, a dex based character can do just fine. You just need to know how to play them. I don't run into the room and grab all the agro or guess what...I'm dead. I follow the Barb/Fighter/Monk and let them get the agro, pop in behind and cut them down faster than a hot knife through butter. I use Rapiers and short swords too. Finesse is fine the way it is.

[Aesop]

I still think a DEX-toon should swing faster, Weapon Finesse should give you stacking double-strike equal to your DEX bonus (as should Tempest III).

I remember when that notion was put forth way back before Update 2.

A double strike chance equal to Dex Mod would be interesting... though that might be a bit high opwered... perhaps Half Dex Mod and only if you are using Dex for the attack.


Aesop

[Gnorbert]

To me, the problem is that there are not enough sources for boosting dex. If I'm dex based but do not ignore strength because I want to be able to actually do some damage... then at end game, when buffed, my strength will still often surpass my dex. At which point the weapon finesse feat is actually hurting my to-hit.

That should not happen.

[TreknaQudane]

At which point the weapon finesse feat is actually hurting my to-hit.

That should not happen.

That's because it DOES NOT HAPPEN

Finesse gives you use your Dexterity for your to Hit with Light Weapons (And Rapiers) If, and only If, it is higher than your Strength Score. If your STR ever surpasses your DEX, you'll switch back to using STR for your to hit.

One of the most annoying things I've run into are occasions like Breeze and Staff of Nat Gann that requires you use DEX for to hit and damage... Not an option, you use it even if it's detrimental to.

[grodon9999]

A double strike chance equal to Dex Mod would be interesting... though that might be a bit high opwered... perhaps Half Dex Mod and only if you are using Dex for the attack.


Aesop

Crunch the numbers in the DPS calc, it's not.

[Aesop]

Crunch the numbers in the DPS calc, it's not.

do you have a good up to date DPS Calulator?

[grodon9999]

do you have a good up to date DPS Calulator?

Google DDO DPS calc.

Keep in mind it's finessable weapon's we're talking about.

[DustTheWind]

We've seen Barbs, casters, s/b even get some updates to be more balanced in game.

It's time that the dex based twf finesse users are spoken for!

That sexy shoeless god of war, the halfling ranger using daggers needs to be balanced with the raging barbarian with the big two handed axe. Dev's you can do it. Everything else needs to be balanced so the dps is the same so everyone has fun, how about finesse builds. How fair is it if barbs do 100-300 a hit but we do 20-30.

Before anyone says well you have AC, well AC was nerf'd like a year ago... where have you been?

I suggest that finesse weapons get a weapon speed bonus based upon dex bonus or fixed by type. IE rapier 4%, short sword 5%, dagger 9%... Or finesse gives chance to doublestrike since you are faster at % bonuse = to the dex modifier?

This excludes those non finesse khopesh using builds so no omg they are too uber already discussion is needed.

come on dev's show us some love too.

Funny you mention it. I made a suggestion in the suggestion forums a while ago that would put any weapon user on about similar footing. However it would be such a change that I am not sure they would make an attempt at it or not. It basically has to do with changing the way weapon damage is played out and focusing more on strength and dex to do damage.

However feates can be used to give other stats a chance to increase damage instead if you have a different build.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...30#post3749830

[JasonJi72]

Improved weapon finesse: Add 10% attack speed to finessable weapons.

Problem solved...

[Aesop]

Improved weapon finesse: Add 10% attack speed to finessable weapons.

Problem solved...

Problem is that is a second Feat. On feat starved builds you are now requiring 2 feats to make a combat style effective.

The feat Weapon Finesse needs to be ACTUALLY effective on its own... or removed and just make Light and Finesse weapons use the higher of Dex mod and str mod to determine attack

Aesop

[ThePrincipal]

even 2 feats would be too little. if for 2 feats i could get 10% attck speed with rapiers and use max dex to hit/damage, dex for ac, and reflex... everyone would be a drow max dex finese melee

the arguement that a precise shot is more deadly in real life then a brute force attack is demonstrated in ddo with the sneak attack.

SA is a about training, not dex. being able to twirl a light weapon is not the same as knowing where your opponent is most vulnerable.

finese feat is fine the way it is. you could make the agruement that rogues should get weapon finese as a given feat at lvl 1