Annoying VoD (Rant Thread)

[Blank_Zero]

You're just upset that I play differently than the majority of DPS toons.

He's more upset that you're proving our stereotypes about PEWPEWPEWs right. Put down the bow and swing away. If you aren't hitting, you dumped STR for DEX and you DPS would suck. In this case, your tank, if decent, should have no issue holding aggro through a manyshot

You're a level 19 pure ranger -- a max BAB class. You *won't* miss horribly with melee weapons. You have all 3 tiers of two weapon fighting, for free, as a ranger. There's a reason for that -- you absolutely should be meleeing sometimes.

This.

[TheDearLeader]

You're just upset that I play differently than the majority of DPS toons.

This part wasn't even aimed at me, but I think I'll address it anyway:

A Ranger, even an AA Ranger, who doesn't know when to put the bow away doesn't have a right to call one's self a DPS toon.

It's like deciding to call McPhail a "DPS Sorc", but leaving Maximize, Empower, Heighten, and Potency items on for only 20 Seconds of every 2 Minutes.

[SynnMG]

You seem very resistant to people who are giving you good advice.

You're a level 19 pure ranger -- a max BAB class. You *won't* miss horribly with melee weapons. You have all 3 tiers of two weapon fighting, for free, as a ranger. There's a reason for that -- you absolutely should be meleeing sometimes.

And people are right -- everyone should have a shield for those times when you end up pulling aggro and need to survive. My main character is a THF acrobat rogue, fully specced for fighting with a quarterstaff. Nevertheless, I keep a Madstone Shield and a tier 3 epic Brigand's Cutlass on him, and swap to them when I pull aggro I can't easily handle (raid boss, certain epic enemies) and I shield block for the DR when I want to shed aggro. My character isn't remotely specced for ranged fighting, but I still carry a throwing weapon -- and people would rightly call me a piker if I didn't use it when necessary (such as against the crystals blocking the fountain in part 3 of Shroud, for example).

Every character has specialties, but every character needs to be able to perform the other tasks expected of them as well, and should carry the gear to make that happen. For any melee, that means a shield -- preferably one with extra blocking DR. For any ranger, that means both a bow and a decent set of TWF weapons.

And no, Slayer Arrows are not a vorpal. They're fantastic, don't get me wrong, and they let you do some of the best possible short-term DPS when combined with Manyshot. But they're not a vorpal, and you should have one (two, actually, since you're a TWF meleer).

The way aggro works in VOD makes it one of the worst places to exclusively use ranged. Obviously, you should take advantage of your manyshot when you can -- you'd be gimping yourself if you didn't. But have a shield to be able to survive if he turns on you afterward, and strongly consider using your melee weapons afterward -- you will do more damage and be much less annoying to your groupmates in a VOD run.

I understand the point of being geared, my FvS is lv 9 and Evoc specced. She has at the least 3 cure crit wands and raise scrolls (Wanded Healed Pit on Hard with ease, but now it's just getting off topic).

I don't carry a shield, but I have made T1 lv 16 set for the cutlass and rapier in cove. Not sure if that would be "decent" enough beaters since all I have in my invo is 5 bows (Painter,(sonic) Greater Ele Bane,(lightning) Dragon Bane, Paralyzer, Anarchic Greater Evil Outsider Bane).

I know Slaying arrows are not vorpal, but for ranged (that is not smiting or banishing), it's the closest thing (without being a thrown axe or Shuriken).

I'll have to test the whole "Hiding Behind Sully" thing, but I wanna see how well it does with pure range before I decide whether or not I personally want to make weapon switches in case of aggro change.

[vrobel]

I understand the point of being geared, my FvS is lv 9 and Evoc specced. She has at the least 3 cure crit wands and raise scrolls (Wanded Healed Pit on Hard with ease, but now it's just getting off topic).

I don't carry a shield, but I have made T1 lv 16 set for the cutlass and rapier in cove. Not sure if that would be "decent" enough beaters since all I have in my invo is 5 bows (Painter,(sonic) Greater Ele Bane,(lightning) Dragon Bane, Paralyzer, Anarchic Greater Evil Outsider Bane).

I know Slaying arrows are not vorpal, but for ranged (that is not smiting or banishing), it's the closest thing (without being a thrown axe or Shuriken).

I'll have to test the whole "Hiding Behind Sully" thing, but I wanna see how well it does with pure range before I decide whether or not I personally want to make weapon switches in case of aggro change.

Just a tip ,i think you are missing an DR breaking bow those are really useful because on hard and elite devil bosses have 35 and 45 DR.EDIT:Also you shouldnt use the cutlass and the rapier since those also dont break dr and you melee dps will suck even more.DR breaker =silver/metalline/transmutating of puregoog/holy/holyburst.

[TheDearLeader]

Just a tip ,i think you are missing an DR breaking bow those are really useful because on hard and elite devil bosses have 35 and 45 DR.EDIT:Also you shouldnt use the cutlass and the rapier since those also dont break dr and you melee dps will suck even more.DR breaker =silver/metalline/transmutating of puregoog/holy/holyburst.

This.

You're adamant about being a Pewpew-only-ranger, and you're not even doing that right.

[SynnMG]

Reason why I am working on Green Steel, to make a Holy/Burst bow for breaking DR with Deneith arrows.

[redspecter23]

Every class needs to be aware of what they are capable of in any particular situation. A ranger that never pulls out his melee weapons is like a wizard that never swaps spells.

Party Leader: "What do you mean you brought wall of fire into this dungeon full of lava and fire elementals? Why not ice storm?"

Wizard: "I don't inscribe most spells and don't bother swapping. I find it easier. Why are you telling me how to play my character? Don't tell me what to do!"

Party Leader: *sigh*

Vod is the sort of raid that is very easy if aggro is managed well, but if aggro isn't managed well, it can get sloppy really fast. Knowing what the main tank is capable of is important just as it's important to watch for the teleports, stand close to the melee party and time those many shots well so you don't steal aggro or waste the many shot holding back.

[treas7]

Why can't you range him from where the melees are? That way the tank doesn't have to run as far to re-establish aggro should he miss an intim/hate boost/generally fail aggro wise, etc.

Sound advice. If you're going to range him and have the capacity to steal aggro with your manyshot and slayer arrows then you need to be shooting right up his behind. You'll also get heals if you are standing there.

[sephiroth1084]

"Random Intervals" is a bit misleading.

"Every time he ports" is when the aggro list resets.

Actually, it seems that Sulu retains his aggro chart, kind of, if he can still see you after teleporting. But, yes, he does tend to reset on teleport.

Reason why I am working on Green Steel, to make a Holy/Burst bow for breaking DR with Deneith arrows.

No. Just go hit the AH or a broker for any random Holy or Pure Good bow and stick silver arrows in it. On normal you may be doing more damage with the Greater Bane that doesn't bypass DR (haven't checked numbers), but you'll be way behind on hard and elite raids.

You can stick to your stance all you want, about never holding anything but a bow, but that doesn't make you right. Everyone should carry a shield, whether you're an archer, a barbarian, a wizard or a rogue. Sometimes you just need that blocking DR. As an archer this should be a priority since the thing everyone else hates most about archers is when they get aggro and everyone has to deal with that. Yes, you stood your ground. That is good. But you also admitted that you tend to die when you do that. You know what helps in not dying? DR 8-25 or so.

As for melee weapons, you're a ranger, right? You have Greater TWF. It's very hard for an archer to beat their own weak melee DPS with comparable weapons when Manyshot is on cooldown. Now, you don't always need to swap, but there are times where it's advisable.

If you want to cleave to your narrow viewpoint, that's your prerogative, but if you are going to come ***** about someone *****ing at you, and then ***** at everyone giving you good advice, you're just going to earn yourself a reputation as a *****y whiner who isn't worth a party slot.

[Mithran]

Boldrin has been giving good advice for a long time, now. Even Shade (who I don't think I've ever run with) has told you the score. After DDO went F2P, many (I hesitate to say 'most,' but it's probably applicable) veterans were wishing Boldrin were still here so he could train a new generation of Shroud players.

The Archer who doesn't know when to melee isn't just hurting the raid/quest he's in; he's hurting every other archer in the game (even those who are melee specialists). It's not just your fault, but by coming to Forums and raising the issue, you've hung a big pinata out that people have been dying to swing at. Try not to take the criticisms personally because part of the enthusiasm for it from those giving you the advice is the innumerable bad experiences veterans have had here for many years, now.

Even back when Infidel was what I regarded as the best Ranger around, any time I double-clicked a party looking for 'dps' on my Ranger, the response was almost always "Are you melee or ranged?" Ranged characters weren't welcome in groups back then and the reason for it is how aggro was managed by them.

[taurean430]

After reading the OP and responses, I decided to look up the character in question. To be fair, you really weren't ready to be in that raid. Your equipment is pretty lacking. You have no melee weapons by your own admission. Your hp are dangerously low. And you are running a class that has a bad reputation in this game for all of these things and more.

The problem with having that few hp on a toon in that environment is splash damage. The mobs there cleave. You are going to get hit unless someone is holding aggro for you. And even then you are going to get hit until that happens. You also appear to be using weaponry that while not breaking DR on the boss, generates enough damage past dr to get it's attention. If the tank in that raid wasn't geared up yet they are not going to be able to keep aggro in such a way that allows you and other archers to continuously range. Effectively, what you've done is throw a wrench into managing the bosses aggro by your choices regarding how that toon was built and equipped.

Low hp toons are more expensive to keep alive. Ranged low hp toons that manage to steal aggro are additionally frequently out of range for heals. Divine casters have to focus in on you to keep you alive to the detriment of the rest of the party. I've had the experience of seeing many toons built like yours OP in other raids. Raids without as heavy splash damage and places to hide. And they don't do so well there either.

The combination of low survivability and possibility of pulling unnecessary aggro would have translated to either a decline from many raid leaders... or being yelled at for making the raid more difficult for 11 other players.

[SirValentine]

Can I also add that I dislike Rangers/Archers who insist on Ranging outside of Mass Cure/Heal range? I know that some of the idea of ranged combat is that you don't get hit as often, but the fact is that you do get hit.

Please stay in mass heal range of the person I've told the party I'm targeting. Please? It makes Clerics sad.

If someone is deliberately out of the healing and won't self-heal, I'm not sad; I get to laugh at them.

If someone is deliberately away from the aura/bursts/mass-cures, I assume it's because they intend to self-heal. Rangers can self-heal plenty if they bother.

[TiberiusofTyr]

Reason why I am working on Green Steel, to make a Holy/Burst bow for breaking DR with Deneith arrows.

The Silver Longbow is good choice until then.

[noinfo]

The Silver Longbow is good choice until then.

This should be the bow of choice up till L2. Double crit range is a good thing.

[TheDearLeader]

The Silver Longbow is good choice until then.

I agree with this statement.

I will add, however, that it is not actually "silver". Some people have that misconception - it will still require silver arrows.

[Zillee]

Would you really hate on someone who is just trying to help, and if acidentally grabbing sully I wait for the tank, and try to not generate anymore threat?

No. I do understand that some players get wound up more by wipes than others and that they might be looking for someone to blame - and sometimes it is the fault of one or two players and sometimes they blame others wrongly - but that's still no reason to chew anyone out for it unless they are deliberately griefing the mission.

I'm still learning the various raids and often I don't understand why a wipe happens just for the simple reason that I might not be aware of the various factors contributing to it. But tbh I learn more about a raid from those that wipe than those that smoothly complete. The best ToD raid I've been on (and yes I know your story is about VoD) was a big massive failure. Why? Because although the air was heavy with disappointment, I asked the group that hadn't immediately released and dropped what had gone wrong. Cue 10 minute analysis of the end fight, no hating on anyone, but objective review. I learnt loads and I appreciated the guys in the PUG explaining it to me.

Far more constructive than yelling at someone. Even if your actions were the main contributing factor to the wipe (and I'm not saying yours were btw, just speaking generally) - talking it through afterwards may mean avoiding those errors in future raids. But hard to do that when players are being angry and shouty.

As for the advice being given here - thanks. While I do carry a ranged weapon on my THF dps toon, I haven't been carrying a shield. I guess I should sort that out ^^

[sweez]

Anyone who has GTWF and doesn't pull out two epic cutlasses in VoD when it's trash time is basically piking anyway.

Reason why I am working on Green Steel, to make a Holy/Burst bow for breaking DR with Deneith arrows.

In the meantime, just get yourself a Silver Bow and use that with Deneith silver arrows for devil bosses, cold iron arrows for demon bosses. Think it's ~20k on the AH, although I haven't really checked lately. You *might* be doing more DPS with Anarchic of GEOB, but having a DR-breaking option on-hand is always good. Especially since you obviously dumped STR (on a full-BAB class you should never have problems hitting/confirming vorps, especially with raidbuffs)?

Still Died though, but it's VoD.

Erm, it's VoD. VoD is easy. You shouldn't be okay with dying. Ever.

[Cardtrick]

Anyone who has GTWF and doesn't pull out two epic cutlasses in VoD when it's trash time is basically piking anyway.

Well . . . in all fairness to the OP, he's only level 19, and therefore can't use the epic cutlasses.

[Burtle]

Silly OP...everyone knows that Monks, rangers, and rogues aren't DPS.

[sweez]

Well . . . in all fairness to the OP, he's only level 19, and therefore can't use the epic cutlasses.

Any vorpal will do really, just that cutlasses get a ton of other procs on devils. I've lead the kill counts in there on my bard just because everyone else was too lazy to switch to vorps for trash