Annoying VoD (Rant Thread)

[SynnMG]

Ok, I am pretty annoyed of the last VoD I just participated in.

I was just chewed out a bit after wiping (Sully was about 35%) by [Anonymous Fighter] since he said there should be 2 archer types in the raid. Littlespoon (Me), Dbarcher, and another person whose name I do not recall, were using ranged weapons. All I have is ranged, all Db had was ranged, and Idk about the 3rd guy.

Lets go to some Play-By-Play.
Beginning: Fine, I did the painting @ point blank range.
First Sully Aggro: Was me, He apparently did a very short range teleport that I didn't see and I was foolish enough to left click again. I stood where I was (I am normally on one of the 4 corners of the spike pit on the nubby things) and held Shift for block, not moving, and waited for the tank to assume aggro.

Usually that method either has me dead or injured, but it is better than running around and kiting sully while he smacks everyone I pass.

Second Aggro: was Db, He ran around and some people got hit, as far as I know Db died and people complained. He said to just leave him dead if people plan to b*tch on him using a bow.

I forget the total, but I have pulled Sully about 3 times (2 on the knub, and 1 directly behind Sully).

Would you really hate on someone who is just trying to help, and if acidentally grabbing sully I wait for the tank, and try to not generate anymore threat?

[Elaril]

Why can't you range him from where the melees are? That way the tank doesn't have to run as far to re-establish aggro should he miss an intim/hate boost/generally fail aggro wise, etc.

[SynnMG]

That's what the one behind Sully was. I was doing a personal test checking what you mentioned.

It still took out the normal HP I take and followed with death.

[Calebro]

People are still using bows when they get to VoD?!?

And who was this leader that said you're supposed to have two archer types?!?

[NaturalHazard]

People are still using bows when they get to VoD?!?

And who was this leader that said you're supposed to have two archer types?!?

0nly time i use bows there is against the bats?

[Angelus_dead]

I stood where I was (I am normally on one of the 4 corners of the spike pit on the nubby things) and held Shift for block, not moving, and waited for the tank to assume aggro.

1. All the damager guys stand together so that in the event of pulling aggro, there is no movement.
2. You pull your shield before blocking.

[Sarisa]

Everyone should carry a shield, whether proficient or not. You never know when you'll need the blocking DR.

Everyone should carry melee weapons, even if you're range spec'ed. There are times when ranged is inappropriate, and VoD is generally one of those places.

Everyone should carry ranged weapons, even if melee spec'ed. There are times when you NEED to range.

It used to be that Sully had extreme hatred for ranged, and it could seriously screw up a hate tank's aggro. I don't know if that still exists, but it's still not a good idea to range him from outside of melee range.

[phalaeo]

Everyone should carry a shield, whether proficient or not. You never know when you'll need the blocking DR.

Everyone should carry melee weapons, even if you're range spec'ed. There are times when ranged is inappropriate, and VoD is generally one of those places.

Everyone should carry ranged weapons, even if melee spec'ed. There are times when you NEED to range.

It used to be that Sully had extreme hatred for ranged, and it could seriously screw up a hate tank's aggro. I don't know if that still exists, but it's still not a good idea to range him from outside of melee range.

This.

Can I also add that I dislike Rangers/Archers who insist on Ranging outside of Mass Cure/Heal range? I know that some of the idea of ranged combat is that you don't get hit as often, but the fact is that you do get hit.

Please stay in mass heal range of the person I've told the party I'm targeting. Please? It makes Clerics sad.

[protokon]

This.

Can I also add that I dislike Rangers/Archers who insist on Ranging outside of Mass Cure/Heal range? I know that some of the idea of ranged combat is that you don't get hit as often, but the fact is that you do get hit.

Please stay in mass heal range of the person I've told the party I'm targeting. Please? It makes Clerics sad.

repeater rogues in shroud who just stand ever so slightly out of mass cures/heal range are funny..they always wonder why they go down so fast ^^

[phalaeo]

repeater rogues in shroud who just stand ever so slightly out of mass cures/heal range are funny..they always wonder why they go down so fast ^^

I mean, maybe it's something to do with having Point Blank Shot or not... I dunno. I've never built or played a Ranger/AA/Archer type, so I really am not sure.

All I know is the Cleric's viewpoint. And from these eyes, it gets rather annoying having to interrupt the cycle of masses to throw a Heal/Scroll on the pew-pewer who isn't in range of heals, but it taking tons of damage.

Anyways, that's really off-topic, but I'm tired so I threw it in without thinking. Sorry about de-railing your thread.

[SirValentine]

Can I also add that I dislike Rangers/Archers who insist on Ranging outside of Mass Cure/Heal range? I know that some of the idea of ranged combat is that you don't get hit as often, but the fact is that you do get hit.

Please stay in mass heal range of the person I've told the party I'm targeting. Please? It makes Clerics sad.

If someone is deliberately out of the healing and won't self-heal, I'm not sad; I get to laugh at them.

If someone is deliberately away from the aura/bursts/mass-cures, I assume it's because they intend to self-heal. Rangers can self-heal plenty if they bother.

[PNellesen]

This.

Can I also add that I dislike Rangers/Archers who insist on Ranging outside of Mass Cure/Heal range? I know that some of the idea of ranged combat is that you don't get hit as often, but the fact is that you do get hit.

Please stay in mass heal range of the person I've told the party I'm targeting. Please? It makes Clerics sad.

This too. I learned that lesson fast in my first few Shrouds on my Ranger (tempest, but still uses manyshot situationally.) If I'm on my Cleric - same thing: if you're on the other side of the room in VoD and you pull Sully's aggro off tank, odds are you won't be getting healed unless tank can get it back and you move over to where the mass cures/heals are landing. (My Ranger's pulled Sully's aggro w/ Manyshot before, but I'm always right behind him, and switch quickly to shield and block until tank gets it back.)

[Calebro]

(My Ranger's pulled Sully's aggro w/ Manyshot before, but I'm always right behind him, and switch quickly to shield and block until tank gets it back.)

I keep seeing people say this.
You shouldn't just stop attacking and shield block.
You should move into the tank's previous position and begin to shield block.
The reason the tank brings him into the corner is to minimize the damage to the rest of the party. If you pull aggro, that becomes your job. Get yourself into the corner where the tank was and then begin to shield block while waiting for him to pull aggro back onto himself.
If you pull aggro from the tank, you have effectively become the temporary tank, and you need to act like it until he re-establishes himself.

[TheDearLeader]

I keep seeing people say this.
You shouldn't just stop attacking and shield block.
You should move into the tank's previous position and begin to shield block.
The reason the tank brings him into the corner is to minimize the damage to the rest of the party. If you pull aggro, that becomes your job. Get yourself into the corner where the tank was and then begin to shield block while waiting for him to pull aggro back onto himself.
If you pull aggro from the tank, you have effectively become the temporary tank, and you need to act like it until he re-establishes himself.

Meh...I don't know if I can agree with this.

The cubbyholes are rather small, and I've seen Sully trap people in there before. That would mean until Sully ports again, two different people (real tank *and* aggro puller) would need special healing, rather than for the short period of time it takes for the tank to re-establish aggro.

It doesn't take much for the melees to fan out to the sides (not back, but more like a small arc around Sully), and figure out who pulled the hate. Most people do this naturally, anyway, and if Sully ends up being on someone else, will move out of melee range as appropriate.

[MarmaladeAgenda]

Gotta weigh in here. My AA is one of my favorite toons. If you're going to play an AA you need to know the following:

1. Get it out your head before you even start that you can use a bow at all times. Aside from the fact that even a dedicated AA does more damage with melee - all rangers are twf melee machines - some monsters are so fast you just can't easily hit them with arrows. The rats and marsh cats in the Red Fens are good examples.

-1b. May as well also get it out of your head that if you shoot things they'll never touch you. WRONG. You're going to get hit as often as anyone else and if you aren't as tough as other DPS toons, you will die and be a burden to your group. Further, monsters HATE being shot. They will come and get you. Archery seems to generate a ridiculous amount of aggro.

2. Have a full set of weapons for every occasion. Two melee weapons and a bow. fire, frost, anarchic, metalline, etc... Carry bludgeoning melee weapons (holy/pure good/undead bane) for skellies. Vorpals! In certain quests not having vorps is epic fail - especially ToD flagging quests. Vorps own in the Vale too. Harry beaters! Make sure you have melee AND ranged - silver or metalline combined with holy or pure good. Portal beaters for the Shroud - anarchic/holy/construct bane/pure good... all work.

3. Don't kite during a raid. EVER. Or in a group at all, really. Save it for soloing. Nothing wears thin quicker than chasing monsters around and missing (-4 to hit while you're moving) because someone is kiting them around. The best times for ranged are when the monster is not easily reached for melee, it's far enough away you can get in more than one shot, there's a large group of trash you can ravage with manyshot and/or precision OR the monster(s) are aggroed on other player characters and you can poach kills with impunity (a fav of mine =p).

4. Don't skimp on Con. 14 minimum and 16 is better. Take the Toughness feat and every toughness enhancement. With a 32 point build elf AA you can put 16 in str, dex and con and worry about wis for spells later with a wis item and maybe a tome. You don't get spells until lvl 4 anyway and then you only get one to start. You'll live without spells for a bit.

5. Don't max out your dex. 16 dex, the racial and class enhancements are enough. You won't miss with decent gear. All your points at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 go to str.

6. Get a set of Wind Howler Bracers from the quest Blockade Buster in Lordsmarch.

7. The shield idea is great. Will be getting my AA one as soon as I'm done typing this. The epic shield from the Crystal Cove event should work well OR Light and Darkness.

8. Put skill points in Spot. You have to see 'em to shoot 'em. And Jump too. Can't kite if you're stuck in a corner.

9. If you are going to build and play an AA, it is gear intensive and you should know this before you start. You need everything in triplicate. You need the best bows you can get your hands on because ranged damage has a disadvantage. You need every bit of gear you can get that will do more damage or make you fire arrows faster. I use a litII GS bow, 3x positive GS bow, for leveling I have a holy/pure good/icy burst bow and a holy burst/pure good/icy burst bow amongst others. I have Wind Howler Bracers, scimitars out the wazoo, a Bloodstone, ToD gear, epic Cutlasses, black dragonscale armor, Tumbleweed, GS cloak with immunities, titan gloves from mindsunder, etc... and I STILL felt gimp enough I decided I'm going to TR my AA 3 times to get a total of +6 to all ranged damage. If that's not enough, I'll TR 3 more times as a monk to get another +3 to damage. (currently on life #2 and up to lvl 9)

10. If you want to be welcome in any raid group, shoot when appropriate, melee when appropriate, offer to pass out a buff or two to save the healers and arcanes some sp. When using the bow, stick with the melees so you get healed and nothing is chasing you around. I would advise NOT using manyshot on the boss in a raid like ToD where aggro is important. You will steal aggro with it if your AA is built well. Use the manyshot on trash. The faster the trash is taken out, the better. Less healing needed, more DPS concentrated on the boss.

Oh, one more thing. This is my personal opinion and others may disagree, but I feel that staying pure ranger is worth it for an AA. The capstone is +25% alacrity to bow firing speed. It makes a huge difference. Especially with manyshot.

Just my 2 cents,

Vadica, Khyber

[TiberiusofTyr]

Gotta weigh in here. My AA is one of my favorite toons. If you're going to play an AA you need to know the following:

Nice first post!

[SynnMG]

Gotta weigh in here. My AA is one of my favorite toons. If you're going to play an AA you need to know the following:

4. Don't skimp on Con. 14 minimum and 16 is better. Take the Toughness feat and every toughness enhancement. With a 32 point build elf AA you can put 16 in str, dex and con and worry about wis for spells later with a wis item and maybe a tome. You don't get spells until lvl 4 anyway and then you only get one to start. You'll live without spells for a bit.

(I made this toon when I was still working on Firstaides to 20, during epics with her is when I learned the 14 con min)

5. Don't max out your dex. 16 dex, the racial and class enhancements are enough. You won't miss with decent gear. All your points at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 go to str.

Too late for that

7. The shield idea is great. Will be getting my AA one as soon as I'm done typing this. The epic shield from the Crystal Cove event should work well OR Light and Darkness.

No disrespect to your post and any others, but I'm not carrying a shield.

9. I use a litII GS bow, 3x positive GS bow, for leveling I have a holy/pure good/icy burst bow and a holy burst/pure good/icy burst bow amongst others. I have scimitars out the wazoo, a Bloodstone, ToD gear, epic Cutlasses, black dragonscale armor, GS cloak with immunities, titan gloves from mindsunder, etc...

Still working for gear, Bloodstones I don't care for though.

10. If you want to be welcome in any raid group, shoot when appropriate, melee when appropriate, offer to pass out a buff or two to save the healers and arcanes some sp. When using the bow, stick with the melees so you get healed and nothing is chasing you around. I would advise NOT using manyshot on the boss in a raid like ToD where aggro is important. You will steal aggro with it if your AA is built well. Use the manyshot on trash. The faster the trash is taken out, the better. Less healing needed, more DPS concentrated on the boss.

Again, This thread entirely

Just my 2 cents,

Vadica, Khyber

Edited with what I don't have atm

[sweez]

10. If you want to be welcome in any raid group, shoot when appropriate, melee when appropriate, offer to pass out a buff or two to save the healers and arcanes some sp.

However, never pass out Barkskin or Camo, or you won't be welcome in any raid group.

Pass bark only when specifically asked, and camo, well, if someone asks for it, IT'S A TRAP!

Edit: what's with shield hate? Yes, you'll situationally want a shield. Unless you're a roleplayer or something in which case joining random PUGs is a bad idea hehe. And ya, you'll want a seeker item. A lot of rangers go for Shimmering Arrowhead, if you can't afford a Bloodstone.

As for ranged aggro, it's very weird in this game and I'd never use it on teleporting bosses myself. Funny story - I was on my barb beating on the Weapon shipment mini-Harry for about a minute, then a bard got bored and started ranging him with a silver bow; pulled aggro in some 5 seconds - he didn't have manyshot, bow strength or anything of that sort.

[taurean430]

Gotta weigh in here. My AA is one of my favorite toons. If you're going to play an AA you need to know the following:

<advice>

Just my 2 cents,

Vadica, Khyber

+1 to you. Much better response than my initial thoughts when taking a look at his character. So frustrating to see someone start a rant about the other participants in a raid when they were the problem.