3 Words: Random Dungeon Generator

[dopefish2112]

I think this speaks for itself. If you would like to keep people playing, give them dungeons they don't know how to beat. A save feature inside the dungeon would be nice for excessively long dungeon crawls as well. It can be done people. We have the technology. . .

[Killer_Rabbit]

I think this speaks for itself. If you would like to keep people playing, give them dungeons they don't know how to beat. A save feature inside the dungeon would be nice for excessively long dungeon crawls as well. It can be done people. We have the technology. . .

The chances are, even if Turbine could account for every situation possible in a quest... it would be impossible to balance every quest in a random instance. The amount of work to code this without fault would be colossal, unless the quest be so bland that no-one would play it anyway.

[NinjaNeed]

1. Random Dungeon Generators.... No. Reason being the possibility of getting into an instance where you need to kill xxx yet he is stuck behind an impenetrable rock barrier - just an example, basically the possibility of impossible instances.

2. Dungeon Save Points.... No. Most seriously long instances are split into sections, Shan-to-kor, waterworks, etc. I know the later levels ones do not (Coal Chamber for example) and are much longer than the whole series of the ones mentioned above combines, but you are a much higher level. We do NOT need more "easy buttons".

/not signed!!!

[Aurora1979]

i know absolutly nothing about programming but first thought is..... what if you end up with something impossible to beat/ get past?

In theory, i like the idea. it would be great to have loads of dungeons and, as you say, no idea what we are gettng ourselves infor... pugging would be awesome

so... you can have an /in theory signed

[Vanquishedfo]

city of heroes, star trek online, soon Champions online, all have systems in game to allow players to create new content and let others enjoy it. THe only ones dont want random elements are those who think thier strength and skill are in knowing every single thing coming at them.

[redspecter23]

They tried something like this with the quest New Invasion and what they ended up with was a boring zerg fest. Since you don't know where you're going you wander around until you find the exit to the next area and you get to do it all again two more times (many people choose to "stick to the wall" and just follow it around until they find the exit). There is little interaction as you are not encouraged to interact with any mobs except maybe the names if you want loot. I suppose if they can improve on that and allow for some interaction so it's not just a "run for the exit" type of dungeon then I can see it being fun.

Perhaps a dungeon where the goal is to track down the named mobs. Getting to the "end" is not really the goal. I suppose that's more like how the explorer areas work in a way.

[Yaskin_Forrit]

in some versions of the DM guide, they included instructions for a random dungeon with tables for corridors, rooms etc.

it should be possible to implement this in code and they already have the textures etc.

but it would have to be more than just an A to B quest.

[dopefish2112]

Bump

[jennick52]

Old school EQ had it, sort of, with dungeons of norath. Granted it was like 3 or 4 different dungeons per area, with 3 or 4 different objectives that you could possibly have to run. Something like that shouldn't be to hard to implement, and it would add a new form of variety to the game.

[Rdonaccount]

Anarchy Online has had a random dungeon generator for years. Basically, you set certain parameters you want in the quest (e.g. order vs. chaos (which affected the types of mobs you'd see), stealth vs. strength (which would affect locks/traps/# of mobs per room), good vs. evil (former being more fetch/repair quests, latter being kill a certain target). There were numerous types of maps (office builds, warehouses, science facilities, caves, etc) to give some element of variety.

The system worked very well, I ran thousands of dungeons and never encountered one that was broken or otherwise unbeatable (provided you only did stealth ones if you could unlock doors). That being said, it didn't take very long for the random layouts to become fairly predictable and boring. And the graphics engine for AO was significantly weaker than what we see here, random dungeons would likely be noticably boring compared to the rest of the game. Couple that with the fact that (1) there is plenty of xp in the game already, and (2) named loot is easier to balance if you restrict access to designed quests, it would be better imo for turbine to just continue to focus on developing original content, especially at the higher levels.

[PinkDragonJr]

1. Random Dungeon Generators.... No. Reason being the possibility of getting into an instance where you need to kill xxx yet he is stuck behind an impenetrable rock barrier - just an example, basically the possibility of impossible instances.

I agree. To a point. you have a valid reason an I can think of several dungeon where randomizing the layout could seriously interfere with configured placements and event triggers. however, the idea of Diablo-esque dungeon runs does intrigue me.
I would think quests specifically designed for that kind of mechanic and some of the simple, A to B quests could benefit from it. Having some in the game, that adventures can enter specifically for that purpose is defiantly worth looking at.
Kind of like a magic mirrors event or in the realm of chaos/madness.

[Aaxeyu]

/Not signed

Random stuff is just boring and annoying to repeat.

[skunk]

I think this speaks for itself. If you would like to keep people playing, give them dungeons they don't know how to beat. A save feature inside the dungeon would be nice for excessively long dungeon crawls as well. It can be done people. We have the technology. . .

I have suggested this, a few times.

/signed.

No save feature. though. do it in one sitting or try again .

*edit*
AO loved the game.

Here is how DDO could do this.

Have a basic dungeon layout. Have the traps be randomly placed. Have the encounters be randomly placed. Its not hard.

area a has a % chance for mob, trap, nothing, boss.
area b has a % chance for Boss, minions,
area c has a 100% chance for boss with % chance of random minions.
Area d has trap with 4 boxes, wis rune, int rune, and chr rune.

This is simple. It could be done. Use some of the complex type maps. Outdoor even. if you go in on normal, mobs are in the level range of --- if you go in on epic mobs are in --- level. Why isn't this possible?

[PinkDragonJr]

/Not signed

Random stuff is just boring and annoying to repeat.

And stuff you can walk with your eyes closed isn't?

I would suggest this mechanic for many of the market place quests and most of the harbor quests. they are primarily slayer and travel quests. Diablo, Torchlight and Anarchy Online had all done this very successfully. there is no reason that DDO cannot do it either. You could even put a check box in the quest entry window labeled 'Floor plan Randomization [ ]'

I would be more hesitant to apply it to the more complex and narrative quests above lvl 10 since they are, in many cases, static, being dependent for timing and event reasons, but i see no reason for Kobold's New Ringleader to be randomized. just make sure that the five rooms that hold the names are always present and always accessible. In the words of Dopefish2112 'We have the technology...'

[Aaxeyu]

And stuff you can walk with your eyes closed isn't?

I would suggest this mechanic for many of the market place quests and most of the harbor quests. they are primarily slayer and travel quests. Diablo, Torchlight and Anarchy Online had all done this very successfully. there is no reason that DDO cannot do it either.

Personally I cannot enjoy diablo2 without maphack. Running/teleing around looking for the right way is boring.


If you think the quests will feel like a new quest every time you repeat it you are fooling yourself.

[Tom318]

I think this speaks for itself. If you would like to keep people playing, give them dungeons they don't know how to beat. A save feature inside the dungeon would be nice for excessively long dungeon crawls as well. It can be done people. We have the technology. . .

Impossible.. Hellgate: London tried it. They ended up with generic maze-type dungeons that people got lost a lot in.

You will just get lost a lot.

And AO is.. well it's brown. And I have yet to see passable smoke.. or fire. Or water, come to think of it. And it's full of humans. And robots IIRC. Not much else. Nothing with any sense of scale at any rate.

[Malky]

Personally I cannot enjoy diablo2 without maphack. Running/teleing around looking for the right way is boring.


If you think the quests will feel like a new quest every time you repeat it you are fooling yourself.

Didn't you enjoy discovering new quests without going on wiki to see the map ? everyone has its own definition of boring, but yours seems to be... kind of unique

The point about diablo 2, AO and such was precisely to have randomly generated zone layouts so you have to discover them. Using hacks to see the map before discovering it is just negating the main purpose of the game to me... which i find quite weird imho.

Edit: I do agree on one point tho : randomly generated content quality would be far below the human-made quests we have in ddo currently. I played Diablo 2, EQ's Dongeons of Norrath and AO to a great extend, and none of them ever matched a human-designed quest. It's kind of fun for the 'discovering' part, but randomly-generated quest quality suffers from the lack that bit of salt only a human brain can produce atm.

Apart from that : to tom and aax > most of the best adrenaline moments i had on MMOs was when i was rushing throught an AO's randomly generated quest on a high difficulty setting, looking for the quest objective without stealthing, and aggroing half the mobs doing so. It's SO much fun when you don't know where the objective is! (Not to mention : going in a dead end is a very bad idea once half the zone is aggroed on you ;p )

[Tom318]

Didn't you enjoy discovering new quests without going on wiki to see the map ? everyone has its own definition of boring, but yours seems to be... kind of unique

Not really.. there are instances here I have to resort to wiki mapping because if it wasn't for that I'd be walking in large circles forever

[Uska]

NO thanks

[Kmnh]

Follow your left hand. Done, you bested the random dungeon.