Monks wraps

[Jahmin]

Barbs are just plain bad at unarmed too, as they can't multi with monks so they can only get that crappy slow animation. So there would be no desire to make one anyways.

Do not confuse desire with optimal. That said, it is possible they will get around to releasing iUnarmed Strike at some point…

lol he couldn't be any more clear, yet people still ask this.
Hard to please.

agreed

[TheIvanovFamily]

lol he couldn't be any more clear, yet people still ask this.
Hard to please.

Actually, I asked just to get a dev quote finally saying, specifically and without wiggle room, that unarmed is intended by design to not work with Ravager, so that people would know that it was not a coding limitation or some other excuse that prevented it from working.

Call me OCD.

[Saaluta]

Actually, I asked just to get a dev quote finally saying, specifically and without wiggle room, that unarmed is intended by design to not work with Ravager, so that people would know that it was not a coding limitation or some other excuse that prevented it from working.

Call me OCD.

Might as well ask your pet dog/cat/furry not to shed.... :P

Saal

[Jesster]

There was a bug that should be fixed in the next update that prevented a number of "on a 20" effects from working together. This included Shocking Blow, Stone prison and a few others. The bug would have only allowed one effect to be dominant. In the update they should all work happily together.

The Ravager's Cut effect is a slashing effect and monk fists are not slashing weapons. <-- This was incorrect, the effect itself requires a melee weapon and the proc is slashing damage. Unarmed does not count as a melee weapon.

Good to know... thanks tons for the reply KT!

[Cyr]

The way it is working now is as intended. The effect needs a melee weapon to proc, and unarmed does not trigger this. The effect itself generates slashing type damage.
Sorry I was unclear before, my Kobold brain is recovering from the weekend.

That may be working as expected. However, labeling the many effects that inexplicably do not apply to unarmed or ranged effects as working as intended is an interesting interpertation.

If there is a logical balance reason for these decisions then great, but evidence points entirely towards the conclusion that this has to do with the bizzare choices made when coding unarmed and ranged weapons that basically makes including new effects harder for them (unless coded to just work for them).

[Drakos]

The Ravager's Cut effect is a slashing effect and monk fists are not slashing weapons. <-- This was incorrect, the effect itself requires a melee weapon and the proc is slashing damage. Unarmed does not count as a melee weapon.

Why was this deviated from the PnP rules? in PnP a monk's Unarmed strike is considered both as a natural weapon and a manufactured weapon for puropses of weapon effects!

[Avidus]

If there is a logical balance reason for these decisions then great, but evidence points entirely towards the conclusion that this has to do with the bizzare choices made when coding unarmed and ranged weapons that basically makes including new effects harder for them (unless coded to just work for them).

Why was this deviated from the PnP rules? in PnP a monk's Unarmed strike is considered both as a natural weapon and a manufactured weapon for puropses of weapon effects!

These are the reasons that people keep bringing it up, we just want to know the reason unarmed is being treated this way.

Would the Ravager's effect being used with unarmed be conisidered over-powered? Is there another balance issue hiding somewhere? Is it a flavor issue? Or is it an unintended consequence of how handwraps were implemented that we are just going to have to live with (similar to the lack of greensteel handwraps) because coding the fix would be too intensive to warrant dev time for?

As there are certain sets and item effects (Shintao set & Vulkor's set for example) that do work with unarmed I am leaning to the fact that Ravager's not working with unarmed is a flavor decision. Which I am fine with by the way. The belt / ring (as opposed to necklace / ring) set I was trying to fill with a ToD set was knost's anyway, I would just like to know what I can look forward to in future updates to the game.

[Eladrin]

In DDO, we have some distinctions between "unarmed", "melee", "ranged" (sometimes called "missile"), and "thrown" attacks.

Some effects, such as the Tower of Despair ring damage effects, only apply to unarmed combat. Others apply to a subset of the attack types or to all of them. The Ravager set bonus was set up to apply only to melee (weapon) attacks.

It's generally up to the designer of an item or effect as to what they want it to apply to, though some of those attack types have more versatility behind the scenes than others.

I do agree that it should be made clearer in the item descriptions what these things apply to.

[Avidus]

In DDO, we have some distinctions between "unarmed", "melee", "ranged" (sometimes called "missile"), and "thrown" attacks.

Some effects, such as the Tower of Despair ring damage effects, only apply to unarmed combat. Others apply to a subset of the attack types or to all of them. The Ravager set bonus was set up to apply only to melee (weapon) attacks.

It's generally up to the designer of an item or effect as to what they want it to apply to, though some of those attack types have more versatility behind the scenes than others.

I do agree that it should be made clearer in the item descriptions what these things apply to.

Thank you Eladrin!

As to your last sentence there I agree, a lot of confusion / speculation could be avoided if it was "made clearer in the item descriptions what these things apply to."

Again, many thanks to KoboldTerror and Eladrin for the responses

[Drakos]

In DDO, we have some distinctions between "unarmed", "melee", "ranged" (sometimes called "missile"), and "thrown" attacks.

Some effects, such as the Tower of Despair ring damage effects, only apply to unarmed combat. Others apply to a subset of the attack types or to all of them. The Ravager set bonus was set up to apply only to melee (weapon) attacks.

It's generally up to the designer of an item or effect as to what they want it to apply to, though some of those attack types have more versatility behind the scenes than others.

I do agree that it should be made clearer in the item descriptions what these things apply to.

Thanks for the reply Eladrin, it is nice to know.

[KoboldTerror]

Pic 1


Pic2


I hope that these get added to the "to do" list or at least "known issues" although that list usually means there is no hope.

Again, I thank you for your hard work.

These officially made it to the "to do" list and both problems have been identified. Thanks for reporting these.

[Shaamis]

It's generally up to the designer of an item or effect as to what they want it to apply to, though some of those attack types have more versatility behind the scenes than others.

Just let me know who I have to send the check to, in order to get my "Shaamis' Everfull Mug" in game . Check is written out, just the amount, name, and where to send it to.

[Marten]

These officially made it to the "to do" list and both problems have been identified. Thanks for reporting these.

This makes me very happy and glad I could help. +1 to you for the feedback, follow-up and for all you do to make the game better.

[Auran82]

I do agree that it should be made clearer in the item descriptions what these things apply to.

*cough* Like how the shintao set bonus should probably only apply to unarmed and monk weapons *cough*

[Gulnar13]

umm yea that should already be obvious. It's a barbarian pre that focuses on dealing bonus DoT from bleeding/con dmg, and requires you to select a favored melee weapon to do (that and sacrifice an innocent to your evil god...)

Barbs are just plain bad at unarmed too, as they can't multi with monks so they can only get that crappy slow animation. So there would be no desire to make one anyways.

RAWR! Give me improved unarmed attack as a feat! I want to rip to shred my enemis with my bare hand, and then to eat their carcasses, even tho i'm a warforged! RAWR!

[Solmage]

It's generally up to the designer of an item or effect as to what they want it to apply to, though some of those attack types have more versatility behind the scenes than others.

I do agree that it should be made clearer in the item descriptions what these things apply to.

Out of sheer curiosity, was it intended that the tempest set be totally useless in a large number of quests by not penetrating DR on it's slashing damage (essentially making it worthless when compared to shintao, f.ex), yet the ravager set fully penetrate DR on it's much larger damage bonus?

Also, I don't suppose said tempest set could be boosted in damage for tempestIIIs?

[Blank_Zero]

Tested this out for myself.

Started with these. Buffs included were:

All +2 Stat buffs
Dhaakani Vigor
Training Dummy
Blessing of the Three Dragons
FB1 set bonus
Tharne's Wrath (2/3 piece)



I intentionally left off Power Attack.



I then switched to this set of wraps.





I then turned on Power Attack.





I then turned off Power Attack.




See anything wrong here?

Edit: These are NOT crafted handwraps.

[Deathlos]

@Blank.
Necro much?:P

And Known issue. All we got is we're looking into it. Not included in the U10 bugfixes so... prolly around U11..

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=318820