Is crafting just a gimmick right now... fraid so, but hope theres hope.

[nisbik]

I leveled to about 11 in all three crafting fields. not buying items from DDO store.

heres what Ive seen. i really wont put much effort into crafting when it goes live for a few reasons.

1. takes way to long to get to any decent level items to make. the sword of pain for example is easier to get then to make a acid touch sword. so questing will still be the easiest way to get low level loot.

2.) high level loot really isn't much use either. my hope when i saw this was a possibility of making something i couldn't normally find in quests, but...

some of the mutation cant be added to items in slots they have always been on in random loot. lesser fire guard can be found on shields but shields are not an option for fire guard shards. why use a system that wont even let you make things you can normally find, id rather do the old system and farm quest till one drops and keep the plat.

suggestion for fix, make what slot your adding the shard to modify the difficulty. if I want to make a lesser fire guard outfit then it should be level 1. if i want to add it to a bracer then it should be level 25. this way people will want to improve skills to get effects in slots they cant normally find them in quests, and a reason to level crafting on toons. and this is what its lacking a REAL substantial long term reason to continue to use the system, right now its more of a gimmick then a tool for live servers.

this isn't a flame, i love the idea and i love whats there, but it has a long way to go before people will use it beyond the initial WOW 2 weeks in my opinion or too make more then just a few things, like paralyzing of lesser vampirism, if possible, then DONE. maybe 2 lives of TR and not really need the current system any more.

oh and please add a note to the descriptions that tell you if its a suffix or a prefix, i can put it together but newbies wont be able too, and that will be a big turn off, newbies don't like learning curves that are to steep.

[Dragavon]

I leveled to about 11 in all three crafting fields. not buying items from DDO store.

heres what Ive seen. i really wont put much effort into crafting when it goes live for a few reasons.

1. takes way to long to get to any decent level items to make. the sword of pain for example is easier to get then to make a acid touch sword. so questing will still be the easiest way to get low level loot.

2.) high level loot really isn't much use either. my hope when i saw this was a possibility of making something i couldn't normally find in quests, but...

Pretty much sums it up.

The only thing you missed is that all things crafted now is BtC. We need to see how unbound crafting is before we can pass judgement.

As it is now, crafting is a waste of time for everyone.

[MackR]

All I know is that I have saved collectibles and soul gems for four years now for nothing. :-(

Why do we even HAVE the Trap the Soul spell???

[patang01]

I leveled to about 11 in all three crafting fields. not buying items from DDO store.

heres what Ive seen. i really wont put much effort into crafting when it goes live for a few reasons.

1. takes way to long to get to any decent level items to make. the sword of pain for example is easier to get then to make a acid touch sword. so questing will still be the easiest way to get low level loot.

2.) high level loot really isn't much use either. my hope when i saw this was a possibility of making something i couldn't normally find in quests, but...

some of the mutation cant be added to items in slots they have always been on in random loot. lesser fire guard can be found on shields but shields are not an option for fire guard shards. why use a system that wont even let you make things you can normally find, id rather do the old system and farm quest till one drops and keep the plat.

suggestion for fix, make what slot your adding the shard to modify the difficulty. if I want to make a lesser fire guard outfit then it should be level 1. if i want to add it to a bracer then it should be level 25. this way people will want to improve skills to get effects in slots they cant normally find them in quests, and a reason to level crafting on toons. and this is what its lacking a REAL substantial long term reason to continue to use the system, right now its more of a gimmick then a tool for live servers.

this isn't a flame, i love the idea and i love whats there, but it has a long way to go before people will use it beyond the initial WOW 2 weeks in my opinion or too make more then just a few things, like paralyzing of lesser vampirism, if possible, then DONE. maybe 2 lives of TR and not really need the current system any more.

oh and please add a note to the descriptions that tell you if its a suffix or a prefix, i can put it together but newbies wont be able too, and that will be a big turn off, newbies don't like learning curves that are to steep.

It's basically killed by limitations of what you can craft and a clash of prefix and suffix. You can pull better random items than you can create and with a better ML than you can create.

There are some effects that you can craft that you won't find on a random pull, but you emmediatly run into the limitation on what you can craft and with what making the items niche at best. I would love a full fletchet system but with BTC shards I can only level up one toon and since there is no unbound crafting yet it'll be a wasted effort on one guy until that's released.

The crafting system is really promising but right now it's a way to craft more DPS and a few situational items. And there is already a lot of really good weapons and items in the game.

You are more likely to craft good shroud items in the same amount of time that you can level up organically (not using store bought essences) to a good level. And all shroud mats are unbound except for shards; making crafting limited in large to the one guy you're levelling up. With erratic essence drops and what you get out of deconstructing, with tons of shards left over from crafting and no simple way of getting something for them and recipes that cost upward to 1k smaller essences it'll be progressivly very expensive to level up will a ramp up of grind to deconstruct vendor trash. Just imagine how many items you need to crunch for that 1k shard when you get at the most 30-40 smaller essences if you're lucky?

Unless they pair this with the actual cost of making the shard (say you get 50% essences from deconstructing what it originally cost, bot large and small essences) it's a very hit and miss kind of thing.

And end reward essences have to be ramped up as well - you can now get MORE essences from deconstructing a random end reward than you get from picking essences as end rewards. That is fundamentally wrong.

Personally there's nothing that I need from crafting so bad that I need to start level up in it so my plan is to deconstruct for essences and see what they do with it. I don't feel like wasting time and effort in something that might change and we all know the convulsion of balancing that might go through this and I don't feel like making items that will be nerfed or changed completely as a result of the influx and balancing issues. I rather collect and deconstruct interesting items and save essences until they figure out what to do with it; then it'll be a matter of spending a day levelling up (if I ever have that much material). Meanwhile the AH will be vaccumed by people looking for metallic properties and cheap items and the better stuff will cost a premium. Without unbound crafting at start we'll see a clear drop in what you can buy from vendors and in the AH.

Not that there's anything wrong with that - most of the stuff in the AH is overpriced as it is and of little value but we'll see what the essence trade will fetch.

[Matuse]

newbies don't like learning curves that are to steep.

Why do we even HAVE the Trap the Soul spell???

1) For adamantine rituals at the stone of change
2) To instakill monsters protected by death ward, as well as non-living monsters who are immune to Finger/Wail.

[pjw]

Is crafting just a gimmick right now... fraid so, but hope theres hope.

I think it's an overstatement to say it's a gimmick, but I entirely agree that there is hope.

What they have done is create the first crafting system in DDO that has any hope of being fun, productive, accessible and useful. It is none of those things now, but with some relatively minor tweaks it will get there.

What I find even more exciting is that, unlike all the other crafting system in DDO, it is expanadable/scalable and has the potential for a bright future. All they really need to do is make sure that the ground-work is solid.

The kinds of things I can see that would be a lot of fun into the future:

- crafting blanks from raids: items with 2 prefix and 2 suffix slots and a ML -10 adjustment (or something similar)

- Adding extra prefix/suffix slots from raid (or other) ingredients

- adding epic colour slots from epic quests/raids

- allowing 2 prefix or 2 suffix, instead of 1 of each.

- allowing properties to be applied to non-traditional slots (eg. deconstruct your bloodstone to get a trinket that takes *anything* -- even 'puncturing' or 'greater twighlight').

Of course these should not be in the first version, and of course they need to be balanced with care. But the point is that the system we are faced with is the first system in DDO that has anything remotely like this as a potential outcome.

It may require crafting level 200, and it may be BtA, but it would be fun to have a really nice item to fill in that awkward slot.

So....don't give up on this system yet. I'd hate to see it go live as it is, but I'd also hate to see it shelved because the version that made it to live servers was beyond redemption.

[nisbik]

What I find even more exciting is that, unlike all the other crafting system in DDO, it is expanadable/scalable and has the potential for a bright future. All they really need to do is make sure that the ground-work is solid.


This i do agree with, my point was that what its missing is a diamond light at the end of the tunnel, they need to include a set of mailable long term goals with real substantial rewards, following a trail a smaller short term goals, or people will just ignore the system all together. green steel is popular because it has all of this. Teir II has some nice uses, 4 or 5 shroud runs or a good guild is all you need, to make items that you can custom fit to your build, good short term goals. tier III has game changing things but can take months or over a year from start to build, good long term goals. this is what they need with crafting, and right now, not there yet.

first impressions are important with new experiences. and the first impression of this for most people is a gimmick, "something amusing to pass the time when nothing else is interesting." and even a basic system should have the goals i mentioned.

Another thing this system is missing is research. one of the best things about GS items is the mystery. The wow I wana "LEARN" how to make that. their isn't much in the way of research for crafting system just grind. if they want a star crafting system you have to include mystery, puzzles to solve, just like GS at the start. people farmed shroud for 100s of runs before they learned what will work, and they still are years later.

some other examples,

remember the first time you realized you could avoid taking a hit from an arrow, by moving sideways, and how you practiced it to gain REAL skill.

remember learning how to actually use fireball, so it would hit the most mobs, REAL skill.

remember learning that jumping in game is not as simple as it sounds in coalescence chamber and you spent time learning REAL skill.

remember when you first understood the basics and the advanced aspects of GS. the hours it possibly took looking through websites. now you can make them and some people cant, and your pride in REAL skill.

remember your first character and how hard durk's secret was solo, and now its a cake walk just like other quests you've learned real skill in using.

This is a big part of a game. EQ1 drowned you in long term goals, and although people have groaned from the tasks. The game still works, and people still play it. i'm not suggesting EQ! version what im suggesting is in summery,

1.) obvious use and function. (currently has, thats why we all tried it)
2. short term pearl's( theres at least 1 or 2 with effect's you cant get randomly.)
3.) long term goals that can bend to your build, with limits( none really here and should have at least one, at the start)
4.) mystery in it use, a feel like GS does that if i stare at it long enough, ill realize something i didn't know before. ( and this is what it should have, even after all the people tear into it and websites start to appear. (without this people will just find something else.)

these are four main things, and there alot more, anything new to DDO or any game should have, real long term mind grabbing things. DDO started with this, and has it more or less in everything, but this is lacking in the current system, and thats why people played around for a few weeks but now i log into game and find 0-2 people in crafting hall, instead of 5-20 like when it first hit house K and this is what will happen on live servers.

[porq]

Waste of time or not eventually we will be able to make this stuff for our characters. I just hope the update lands soon because of all the inventory space I don't have from the trash I'm holding to deconstruct

[Bladedge]

All I know is that I have saved collectibles and soul gems for four years now for nothing. :-(

Why do we even HAVE the Trap the Soul spell???

I was disappointing that trap the spell is not even used. Its like one of the perfect crafting ingredients. Unless they are saving it for use with future craft able greater bane items its a perfect miss opportunity to use something that is already in game same for regular gems.

[Memnir]

To everyone who took the time & effort to try out crafting and report here (and in other threads):

First of all, a huge thank you. The amount of time that many of you put into this is very much appreciated, and all the more so in light of the feedback that you didn't find the process fun or rewarding.

Crafting is still in its infancy and this is exactly the type of feedback we needed in order to improve it. Ideally we would have gotten further along with the system before Lamannia, but it wasn't to be. For Update 9 crafting will be available in its current form as 'beta', and the reasons for that include balance as much as anything else.

The message is pretty loud and clear; crafting isn't where it should be. I say 'should' because we're building this system to enhance the game - and your enjoyment - not simply introduce an exhausting grind or time sync. Ironically the intent was that through normal questing one could accumulate the ingredients to craft and that dedicated gathering activities or excessive grind weren't required.

I suspect we went overboard with our desire to 'protect' the game - and not overpower players or create the proverbial 'easy button', but it is very apparent that the balance is way off.

Clearly we need to make changes. We will and we're on it as I write this. The feedback in here goes far beyond 'we don't like it' - it's incredibly constructive - and again, we thank you for that. That there are so many thoughtful suggestions is testament to the quality of DDO's player base.

This is from another thread - but I think it bears repeating and reposting as many times as possible.

The Devs see Crafting as being in a "beta" stage right now, and will be working to balance and fix it. Right now, I don't think anyone is happy with how Crafting has shaken out in it's current iteration, players and Devs alike. But the good news is that the Devs are aware of the problems, and say they are going to work towards making it better.

[ArkoHighStar]

This is from another thread - but I think it bears repeating and reposting as many times as possible.

The Devs see Crafting as being in a "beta" stage right now, and will be working to balance and fix it. Right now, I don't think anyone is happy with how Crafting has shaken out in it's current iteration, players and Devs alike. But the good news is that the Devs are aware of the problems, and say they are going to work towards making it better.

This

I think the base system of deconstruction and shards is a good one, its now a matter of balancing the grind with results

[nisbik]

This is from another thread - but I think it bears repeating and reposting as many times as possible.

The Devs see Crafting as being in a "beta" stage right now, and will be working to balance and fix it. Right now, I don't think anyone is happy with how Crafting has shaken out in it's current iteration, players and Devs alike. But the good news is that the Devs are aware of the problems, and say they are going to work towards making it better.

I had no doubt they see everything i'm saying , and thanks for posting this, i hadn't seen it, i mostly posted this for my 2 cents. i'm excited that crafting is coming out its been along time coming i just want crafting i can enjoy, and not just have as a feature. looks like they are working on it. thanks again for pointing this out. i don't want to be over powered i just want to have more power if i can solve the equation so to speak

[LordDamax]

Amen. One of the things I looked forward to with crafting was being able to fill some slots that arent real useful on some of my toons. Like my sorc and his gloves. Right now he's wearing thornguard. Sure, its pretty ok, but why cant I add combsution or something like that? I understand wanting to keep certain slots to certain effects, but at higher crafting levels, why not?

If all I can make is random stuff anyway, whats the draw?

Sure, there are a few effects you cannot find randomly, and trinkets are cool - they arent ever random... but having a lame glove slot, and nothing really useful I can put on those gloves... meh.

[Xenus_Paradox]

The high-level loot is worth leveling up for, just because you can craft extremely good items that pretty much never drop randomly. +4 Holy Burst Silver X of GLOB is better than a Min II as a devil boss beater, for instance.

[pjw]

...they need to include a set of mailable long term goals with real substantial rewards, following a trail a smaller short term goals

I think this would be achieved if a new player could craft a '+1 X of Pure Good', and was able to craft useful stuff at level. Later being able to craft raid-class slot-fillers would be a good goal.

The key here is being able to build level-appropriate stuff, and I think that just requires a little tweaking.

Secondarily to this, I think crafting is am important means to reduce the 'gear-gap' between older and newer players that must make balancing content very hard.

Another thing this system is missing is research. one of the best things about GS items is the mystery.

Last time I remember GS had mystery was when the shroud was released. Since then, not so much of a mystery. Mystery for crafting is very short lived. Im not sure I even want puzzles. What I want is to be able to cumulatively build nice stuff for my lowbies as well as my L20s.

people farmed shroud for 100s of runs before they learned what will work

Hmm. Yep. Basically it was random and made very little sense. It fell to a small groups of very brave (and well equipped) players to find the recipes.

and they still are years later.

Really? That would be great, but I have not heard of any new shroud recipes for a while now (except for new blanks).

remember the first time you realized you could avoid taking a hit from an arrow...actually use fireball...jumping...advanced aspects of GS... hard durk's secret was solo...

This is a big part of a game.

Some it this yes; not so much the GS or jumping. Always hated those jumping quests. The game has a sense of adventure in the quests. From your comments it sounds like it has that in at least one of the crafting systems.

I am not at all effort should be spent on the new crafting system to make it mysterious.

I'd settle for useful and functional any day. That would be new.

1.) obvious use and function. (currently has, thats why we all tried it)
2. short term pearl's( theres at least 1 or 2 with effect's you cant get randomly.)

OK. I'd also say that they can add many more with ease if they choose to. So definitely, yes.

3.) long term goals that can bend to your build, with limits( none really here and should have at least one, at the start)

Getting to level 40 for a WoP rapier is at least a medium term goal. Except it will be BtC, so who would bother.

4.) mystery in it use, a feel like GS does

Nah. This loses me. GS is the best grind currently in the game because the outcomes are pretty well known and if you run shroud enough you can have what you want. I did not like the mystery when it was so expensive to experiment. I like
the lack of mystery now.

these are four main things...but this is lacking in the current system, and thats why people played around...but now i log into game and find 0-2 people in crafting hall

I think the reason you see so few people is that the system is now well understood, and more specifically, people realize it's a total drag to level much above 40.

I appreciate the desire for mystery and experimentation in a crafting system. I even like the idea. I don't see GS as that system, and sadly I can not think of any way to make such a system.

In the absence of detailed plans for a mysterious system, I'd really just vote for a useful and functional one.

[Lyetisha]

PJW pretty much said what I planned on saying, so... yay PJW =D