A Funny Thing Happened...(tale of a kill-count focused wizard), short, low/no drama

[varusso]

i didn't neg rep ya (can't, but even if i could, i wouldn't have). the point that i think you missed that most
posters are trying to get across:
kill count is an incredibly dumb thing to spec for regardless of your class.
as a melee you want to do as much damage as possible (in most cases).
if you want to spec as a insta-killer arcane that is fine as well.
but trying to set your character up to outkill every melee in the quest: foolishness.

some quests, the arcane will lead the kill count regardless of what the melee does. (necro and deleras i'm thinking
of you) other quests, you don't have the sp to even try to "compete".

Seems to me the arcane in the OP wanted to be the *HERO* but still needed the party around him to
keep away multiple mobs while he picked them off.

I didnt miss the point at all, In fact, once again, I specifically said that myself.

Now had it been *MY* mage, the party would have been raged/hasted the entire time (assuming of course we didnt scatter like a kicked ant-hill as is usually the case in a pug), and the kill count would have meant far less to me than the completion time. But then again I am concerned with more important things than kill counts Doesnt mean he was wrong to want high counts. His method was wrong, and his results.

However the other point *I* am making is that this is a common occurance with melees, and it is by and large acceptable on a melee, but apparently not for mages. They think it is okay to demand rage/haste/whatever buff they can provide themselves, and its just the mage's job to run around keepiung them rage/hasted and THEY get to compete for kills while the mage should just shut up and tag along like a good little boy, but by GOD they better throw a firewall when the melees want one. Oh and BTW, learn to not be a one-trick-pony-firewall-kthnkxby. Anyone who has played lvl 8+ content for more than a few days KNOWS this to be true.

And again, there were 5 other ppl in that party. The mage wasnt the sole cause of their troubles; he merely contributed to it with his nub-tard attitude (the same attitude shared by a great many non-mage kill count hounds). The mage's attitude, however, wasnt any more or less wrong than the rest of the group. his RESULTS were what really show his stupidity. If you cant actually back up your boast, you should not make it in the first place. Declaring you are going to rock the kill count, then failing miserably is one of the premier examples of stupidity possible in an MMO. That even assuming the killcount actually were the single defining measure of a player's worth in a party -- which it is not.

Now, to be absolutely clear, since so many people dont seem to get this: I AGREE that mages SHOULD buff the party, including rage/haste etc for the melees in order to keep the pace rockin (assuming the party WANTS to do it quickly of course), charm/hold the mobs, drop nukes strategically to best benefit the party as a whole. Individual killcount should take a backseat to having a fun, smooth run, no deaths, getting all reasonable bonuses/optionals, and completing in a reasonable amount of time. The ONLY killcount that REALLY matters is the total, and that only because it counts toward Conquest That doesnt mean the mage doesnt have the right to compete for top dog, if he wants to, just like any other toon. But *EVERYONE* should shift their priorities to what best benefits the group (not just the mage) or go solo the quest.

[MartinusWyllt]

if you want to spec as a insta-killer arcane that is fine as well.

I completely agree and greatly appreciate that specialty in Let Sleeping Dust Lie. More than happy to stand in front of the caster and body block.

[herzkos]

I didnt miss the point at all, In fact, once again, I specifically said that myself.



However the other point *I* am making is that this is a common occurance with melees, and it is by and large acceptable on a melee, but apparently not for mages. They think it is okay to demand rage/haste/whatever buff they can provide themselves, and its just the mage's job to run around keepiung them rage/hasted and THEY get to compete for kills while the mage should just shut up and tag along like a good little boy, but by GOD they better throw a firewall when the melees want one. Oh and BTW, learn to not be a one-trick-pony-firewall-kthnkxby. Anyone who has played lvl 8+ content for more than a few days KNOWS this to be true.

And again, there were 5 other ppl in that party. The mage wasnt the sole cause of their troubles; he merely contributed to it with his nub-tard attitude (the same attitude shared by a great many non-mage kill count hounds). The mage's attitude, however, wasnt any more or less wrong than the rest of the group. his RESULTS were what really show his stupidity. If you cant actually back up your boast, you should not make it in the first place. Declaring you are going to rock the kill count, then failing miserably is one of the premier examples of stupidity possible in an MMO. That even assuming the killcount actually were the single defining measure of a player's worth in a party -- which it is not.

Now, to be absolutely clear, since so many people dont seem to get this: I AGREE that mages SHOULD buff the party, including rage/haste etc for the melees in order to keep the pace rockin (assuming the party WANTS to do it quickly of course), charm/hold the mobs, drop nukes strategically to best benefit the party as a whole. Individual killcount should take a backseat to having a fun, smooth run, no deaths, getting all reasonable bonuses/optionals, and completing in a reasonable amount of time. The ONLY killcount that REALLY matters is the total, and that only because it counts toward Conquest That doesnt mean the mage doesnt have the right to compete for top dog, if he wants to, just like any other toon. But *EVERYONE* should shift their priorities to what best benefits the group (not just the mage) or go solo the quest.

Still missing the point. Kill count is a totally utterly useless metric. For Arcanes, For melees, For divines, For
EVERYONE. it is not even remotely near a "determining factor of a player's worth in a party".
it is an e-peen stroke and that is it.

suggest you watch the assumptions (irt firewall) or you may find yourself with other issues than neg rep.
ps, i really hope your join date is wrong because otherwise, you're just trolling.
have a nice day.

[varusso]

Still missing the point. Kill count is a totally utterly useless metric. For Arcanes, For melees, For divines, For
EVERYONE. it is not even remotely near a "determining factor of a player's worth in a party".
it is an e-peen stroke and that is it.

suggest you watch the assumptions (irt firewall) or you may find yourself with other issues than neg rep.
ps, i really hope your join date is wrong because otherwise, you're just trolling.
have a nice day.

YOU are still missing the point. I have said more than once that kill count is pointless. You need to practice reading comprehension before attempting to lecture someone else. Trolling? ROFL I would like to introduce you to the kettle, Mr Pot.

[MartinusWyllt]

Oh, and I didn't mean to specifically implicate that arcane in being the direct cause for how long that one took. We were under level...at least I was, didn't coordinate very well overall, the guy with the wand died and /ragequit, took me a bit to realize I did get the wand when I got his stone.

90 minutes on something that should have taken far less time (I tend to like to skip the outside optionals, they wanted to try for them all so I went along.) was a group effort, not just the no-spell point having cleric and the solo kill pwnz0r arcane. Had I really been worried about how long it was taking I would have had abandoned the group as almost no one was listening...I just wanted to get it over with and there'd been a dearth of 10-12th lvl LFMs around that time. Today it has been blown-up for that level range.

But, really, to intentionally not buff for kill count, that's lame and was my initial point. Don't buff me if you want to conserve some sp for some crucial later encounter...but to preserve your sp and want me to be swinging slowly enough so that you can pick-off nearly-dead mobs...really? (That's what he was doing if I didn't make that clear.)

[rabbit512]

YOU are still missing the point. I have said more than once that kill count is pointless. You need to practice reading comprehension before attempting to lecture someone else. Trolling? ROFL I would like to introduce you to the kettle, Mr Pot.

tbh, i don't think he missed it. your point was that if it's not okay for arcanes, then it shouldn't be okay for mellees. he just said that the whole kill count lot is useless for all classes alike. six or one half dozen of the other.

[varusso]

tbh, i don't think he missed it. your point was that if it's not okay for arcanes, then it shouldn't be okay for mellees. he just said that the whole kill count lot is useless for all classes alike. six or one half dozen of the other.

Actually yes he did, and apparently he is not the only one, even though I have said it multiple times: I AGREE that kill count epeen is stupid. I have said it since the first day I logged onto an MMO. yet people keep responding to my posts as if I think its the greatest thing since sliced bread, even though I have said it is stupid in EVERY post in this thread.

My OTHER point is that if its ok for melees to do it (which is a prevalent point of view both on the forums and in-game) then it is ok for mages to do it.

That is NOT the same thing as saying **I** think kill count is worth having epeen contests over.

[dopey69]

YOU are still missing the point. I have said more than once that kill count is pointless. You need to practice reading comprehension before attempting to lecture someone else. Trolling? ROFL I would like to introduce you to the kettle, Mr Pot.

see that " mr. Pot, kettle"

now thats drama , kyber eat your hearts out

Thelanis is back baby!

[kyleann]

Sorry Var, I'm with the others. Your post was a devil's advocate post, and as such it's going to be seen in a negative light. It may be true that melees watch the kill count more than mages. However, as a caster and as a melee, unless I'm in a highly competent group I find myself leading the group in kills whether I'm a Sorc or a Barb. Knowing how to play trumps all that nonsense, and this player obviously had no idea how to play.

This mage the OP is about, he's a bad player. Simply didn't know how to play. As a team player, or as a solo player. I'd like to see him finger his way through framework on hard and get all the optionals solo. He'd be dead at the first knockdown. This player was using the other team members as a crutch while using a single-target death spell any idiot can use to tout how amazing they are.

I won't neg rep you, cuz that's just not nice, but the reason people are disagreeing with you is because your devil's advocate stance hasn't a leg to stand on. It's not the "kill counts are useless" thing that's got people peeved, it's that your stance is defending a player that obviously shouldn't be grouped with at all.

Your intentions were good, but your delivery was poor. It happens. Accept it and move on. You agree with us that he's and idiot. You agree that kill counts don't matter. I'm fairly certain you agree that it's NOT ok for mages OR melee to only pay attention to kill counts and not team playing, whether some do it or not doesn't matter.

[rabbit512]

Actually yes he did, and apparently he is not the only one, even though I have said it multiple times: I AGREE that kill count epeen is stupid. I have said it since the first day I logged onto an MMO. yet people keep responding to my posts as if I think its the greatest thing since sliced bread, even though I have said it is stupid in EVERY post in this thread.

My OTHER point is that if its ok for melees to do it (which is a prevalent point of view both on the forums and in-game) then it is ok for mages to do it.

That is NOT the same thing as saying **I** think kill count is worth having epeen contests over.

..... ok, now you've just repeated almost verbatim what i wrote.

i got nothing. maybe you shouldn't accuse people of not listening if you can't do so as well - clearly, i understood what you wrote.

[Havok.cry]

Lol i don't know what ppl are talking about, but a wiz can lead the kill count in any quest... they just have to do 1 of 2 things:
1: gratuitous use of sp pots... this is for when you absolutly must chainlightning even the lil lvl 1 kobold (thats why they still hate you)
2: make lfm that says pikers only, and be self sufficient... swing that staff lil caster lol... no one else fights, you win lol.

Using these methods you can easily win that competition... not that anyone cares... and if you do #1 you can still buff the party while doing it?

Selfish bastard doesn't know how to play a wiz. Bufging em and winning is shinier than witholding and taking forever lol

[varusso]

Good god i dont know why this is so difficult to understand. I have said repeatedly the mage was a moron.

NOT because he wanted to top the kill count, just like every other player out there who doesnt understand kill counts are not the defining factor in goodplay. But because (1) he obviously sucked at GETTING his declared goal of high kill count and (2) his determination to get it was at the detriment of the entire party.

Its not playing devil's advocate to say he has the right to go for high kill count, just like everyone else. He DOES have the right, just like anyone else. His failure was not in trying to get high kill count. His failure was in being a drag on the party, rather than having a positive impact.

*MY* method of being a positive impact is to adapt to the party needs, which is, the majority of the time, being the buffer and throwing rage/haste as needed, throwing nukes/CCs when they are called for. I could not care less about the kill count. I care about getting the quest done, having fun, and making it easier all the way around for everyone. A significant portion of the DDO community DOES think kill count is the end all be all of any template. I think they have some serious re-learning to do. But a mage has just as much right to be foolishly concerned with killcoutns as any axe-toting barbarian.