drow shortsword monk

[Snapdragoon]

i wonder how many people saw the title and shook there head :P

now im a fan of monks, have one capped at 20, pure fists and all that, but the main problem i run into is a good set of handwraps, i have a pair of vamp stonedust and thats mainly all i use, but i hate not being able to use GS, Metalline, etc.

so i rolled up this build when i relised that monk ninja spy gives you shortswords as ki weapons, and eventually keens them. then i looked at all the synergy between a dex based drow monk, short sword and shurikan race weapon bonuses.

so im currently siting at level 7, and while i know everything is easy for pretty much anyone at low level i have to say at the moment im very pleased with this build, and because its sraight monk i can switch back and forth between duel SS and handwraps as needed. looking foward to get some GS shortswords on this build soon.

so any thoughts, as i have not really seen this idea posted around yet

[Malky]

Just... you won't be able to use touch of death with shortswords equipped.

[elujin]

next update earth finisher and the iron hand strike thingy adding to crit multi will work with ki weapons
also with the ki nerf the better crit profile of shortswards + crane will net you more ki
and dual wielding the crystal cove shortswords can get into nice dps at end game

so i guess this style gets a boost

just switching to fists for tod and stunning fist is a pain

[Aerendil]

Loss of ToD is the big one, as mentioned already.
The other thing is that your dps will always be lower than handwraps for 2 reasons:
- base handwrap damage will continue to increase, and far surpass any shortsword you can wield. I've even playtested this using twin tier3 crystal cove shortswords (+6 wpn, 2d6 base damage) vs. a set of +4 handwraps (think I have shocking of bleeding on them, with frost burst from Risia ice games). The handwraps completely blew them away, and they're not even optimal handwraps.
- handwraps have a speed boost in melee. Can't recall the actual % on them, but they tend to simply be faster than any other weapon in game. Faster = more attacks. And more attacks tends to add up significantly in this game.

Now, that said, a dark monk using shortswords isn't entirely a horrific idea. It can work. It's just suboptimal.
But if that doesn't scare you away, here's a few ideas:

- be sure to use earth X 3 finisher often (as mentioned above). It grants a +2 crit multiplier if it hits. And with weapons such as the smallblades from crystal cove, this means you have a very good chance at getting X 4 crits, which is nice.
- craft a radiance shortsword. The crit range won't be the best, so you won't get blinds as often as a rapier or scimitar might, but for solo you'll want that extra +3d6 damage kicking in. This is one advantage over handwraps.
- might even want to get DT vestments with radiance guard on them
- pick up various types of shortswords, to take advantage of various situations. Currently there are a few weapon enhancements that you can't place on handwraps - be sure to have those as shortswords. Otherwise, the advantage of going sword-based is nullified.
- smallblades, with their great crit range, and fire stance = you are literally SWIMMING in ki. Use this to your advantage and be sure to pick up as many GM stances as possible for the harder hitting ki strikes. Maybe even pick up the void line if you can manage it, although you'll be super tight on APs and I'm not sure it's possible to get that + ninja spy + capstone. But this is probably your biggest advantage over wraps - the ki generation in fire stance. Spam your ki strikes like there's no tomorrow. That *might* just make up for the overall loss in dps from not using handwraps. When you want to ToD, switch to wind stance and handwraps and quickly fire it off, and then switch back.

Overall, try it out and see if you like it. Chances are you'll be using both, and may even find you prefer handwraps, but that's just my experience.

[blitzschlag]

in 99 of 100 cases drow are not as neat as ppl think they are

[Therigar]

I have run two monks to cap, one dark path and one light path. On the dark path monk I used short swords when I needed to bypass DR on monsters that I could melee. I used fists on everything else.

It is not worth crafting greensteel shortswords for this unless you are running Shroud and Amarath quests on hard or elite settings. Instead get a pair of metalline of pure good shortswords by shopping the AH.

What you are ideally looking for is a ToD ring with Holy Burst effects. You then want to find silver threaded handwraps. You craft the silver threaded handwraps in U9 to have anarchic burst and greater lawful outsider bane properties.

This strategy lets you deal with devils which you can melee. Demons are usually a different situation because they tend to be like Demon Queen with knockdown. Melee there is very difficult.

For demons you want a holy burst bow of greater chaotic/evil outsider bane and to use cold iron arrows from house Deneith. That means using a feat on Zen Archery so you do not lose your ki while ranging*.

Or, you could try melee with the ToD ring and axiomatic burst cold iron handwraps of greater chaotic outsider bane. But, that is usually much more troublesome.

*Edit: If you go for the shuriken enhancements you could substitute a returning holy burst cold iron shuriken of greater chaotic/evil outsider bane.

[elujin]

don't know if this stacks but earth stance 3-4 will add an outher crit multi on19-20 crits post u9

and ofcourse the earth strikes are more optimal for a good crit weapon getting the can could hurt thouh on a drow but should be considered

[arch0njw]

Snapdragon,

I think there is an excessive focus on The Perfect Build. This build sounds fun. I'm not an expert on builds, but as a long-time gamer, especially pen-and-paper AD&D, this sounds like a blast. It makes me want to build one.

Probably not the feedback you're looking for, but it's a game -- have fun first. This sounds like fun.

[Therigar]

Now, that said, a dark monk using shortswords isn't entirely a horrific idea. It can work. It's just suboptimal.

Using shortswords instead of handwraps usually is beneficial in two places. First is the Shroud where people freak out if you don't have "boss beaters." Even though forumites will know that these are not needed on normal Shroud runs if DPS is high enough (you do have to get past DR), it is still a factor. Having short swords that can beat Harry's DR is not suboptimal. It is the logical solution to the "boss beater" problem.

The second place is in Amarath where you fight devils like Harry. Same reasons apply. The reason to run Amarath is to get to Tower of Despair and the ToD rings. Once you have a ToD ring then you upgrade it to include Holy Burst. At that point you no longer need short swords because you can use metalline (preferably metalline of greater evil outsider bane).

As I note in my previous post, the handwrap choice ideally would be anarchic burst silver threaded of greater lawful outsider bane. That is a bit more difficult.

FWIW, those who say farm for metalline of PG wraps should know that buying short swords from the AH is a lot faster and easier (or kamas for that matter).

[elujin]

Snapdragon,

I think there is an excessive focus on The Perfect Build. This build sounds fun. I'm not an expert on builds, but as a long-time gamer, especially pen-and-paper AD&D, this sounds like a blast. It makes me want to build one.

Probably not the feedback you're looking for, but it's a game -- have fun first. This sounds like fun.

also to add on this your still a full monk capable of fighting with wraps mebey got inpr crit pierce and not blunt but thats minor

[Emizand]

I am holding of till scorpion wraith comes out. Then I will build a drow, ninja, scorpion wraith, dual shortsword wielder
(yeah I know it will be suboptimal). So look forward to following this thread if you keep it up.

Good luck

Emi

[Therigar]

in 99 of 100 cases drow are not as neat as ppl think they are

In the case of a monk focused on shuriken and short sword drow is the ideal build because it gains racial bonuses to both weapon types. It also starts with higher base DEX which is the primary stat for this type of build.

In fact, no other race will perform as well in both the short sword and shuriken categories taken together. Halfling with the thrower enhancements can do better with shurikens and elf can do as well with the short sword. But put both together and your best bet is drow.

[Arlathen]

Go for it!

It sounds like a great fun build with some nice synergies across abilities, with scope for future additions (Drow PrE).

Monk is one of the most versatile classes in the game, and all my multiclass projects end winding some kind of Mnk levels into them somewhere for fun.

My current project is an 32pt Elf, Monk 12/Paladin7/Fighter1. This is a Longsword focused build aimed at obtaining Displacement Dragonmarks, Elf Melee enhancements and Earth Stance 3. Paladin will add both a serious amount of Critical Hit DPS and Defensive/Tanking ability to the already great mix of Monk 12 abilities. The Fighter level? Haste Boost and an extra Feat

Will my build be Max-DPS?? Hell no. It will come very close to Khopesh DPS (better DPS on non-crits), be an amazingly survivable build and self-heal really well? Hell yes.

With the 10% Weekend, an XP Pot or two and a little grind, I rolled up him up to lvl 4 vet status and blasted through to level 10 last night, in 3 days flat. Amazing fun to play, and suits me just fine.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I built this ages ago as a flavour build to run with guildies. Got to level 10 and was totally bored even though I had dual sunblades.

I've come back to it though and even though have pimped out shortswords to take advantage of the crit range (banishing, smiting etc) I never use them, handwraps are so overpoweringly superior.

Some points:
Unbalancing strike/stunning fist > radiance
2d10/12/14 unarmed damage > 1/2d6 shortsword damage
~111. atts/min HWs > 100.3 atts/min for SS' (~10% attack speed difference)
100% offhand str mod for HW > 50% offhand str mod for SS

Pretty much as soon as I hit 20 I'll TR straight away, best thing about the build; PL:Monk.

[DevHead]

I think there is a great deal of potential for Ninja Spy + SS, but the PrE currently doesn't take advantage of it, and only the CC Event SS are the ones worth using (that I've seen).

HOWEVER, it could be fun, and I've thought about it. Remember, with this update comes Shuriken Expertise (Throw 2 Shurikens at once), so you could have a pretty good build.........with Wind Stance, more than likely. Earth for melee, Wind for ranged, you think? Or just Wind all around? Hmm...

[Snapdragoon]

love the feedback.

lots of ideas from a build nature, lots of love as a fun flavor build wich i see it more as anyways.

obviously this is not the best dps build and there are lots of monk builds out there for that, just throwing out a new style that could be fun and actually viable at the same time.

i know lots of people hate drow, the 6 con and all, but im with the "con is not a cump stat" group and am not having trouble there, and the synergy between the race and this build was great.

thanks for all the tips and ideas, and yeah im currently rocking twin event smallblades, but i like being able to switch to wraps on stuff like skele's and ooze's so the two options work good.

[Elixxer]

next update earth finisher and the iron hand strike thingy adding to crit multi will work with ki weapons
also with the ki nerf the better crit profile of shortswards + crane will net you more ki
and dual wielding the crystal cove shortswords can get into nice dps at end game

so i guess this style gets a boost

just switching to fists for tod and stunning fist is a pain

They already work on longswords which can be ki based weapons.

With earth stance III was it? You'll get +1 crit range in that stance? I read that somewhere, can't remember where!

EDIT: Read a bit further down heh, I'm wondering if this will stack with 2 base and +2 from earth strike finisher which would make +5? On a held mob then.... if you get a crit that's +50% damage to an already 5 times crit?

[Elixxer]

In the case of a monk focused on shuriken and short sword drow is the ideal build because it gains racial bonuses to both weapon types. It also starts with higher base DEX which is the primary stat for this type of build.

In fact, no other race will perform as well in both the short sword and shuriken categories taken together. Halfling with the thrower enhancements can do better with shurikens and elf can do as well with the short sword. But put both together and your best bet is drow.

Elves don't get +2 hit and damage enchantments on shortswords.
Elves get it for longswords, because guy elves have...

[FuzzyDuck81]

My take on the shortsword specialist build was a monk7/fighter12/wizard1 dragonmarked elf. The dragonmarks give displacement for a survivability boost, the wizard level lets them be extended (over 3min displacements x 7 lesser marks with greater mark taken too) & gives use of wizard wands for some handy buffs, kensai2 with shortswords naturally boosts the dps capability (passive stuff plus power surge) plus attack speed through haste boosts & tier1 ninja spy gives the very handy shadow fade for a 2nd source of miss chance plus a bit of sneak attack & a doublestrike chance from wind stance. Its a good, fun build though there are naturally trade-offs, the biggest for me being the lack of improved evasion.

[Arlathen]

I built this ages ago as a flavour build to run with guildies. Got to level 10 and was totally bored even though I had dual sunblades.

I've come back to it though and even though have pimped out shortswords to take advantage of the crit range (banishing, smiting etc) I never use them, handwraps are so overpoweringly superior.

Some points:
Unbalancing strike/stunning fist > radiance
2d10/12/14 unarmed damage > 1/2d6 shortsword damage
~111. atts/min HWs > 100.3 atts/min for SS' (~10% attack speed difference)
100% offhand str mod for HW > 50% offhand str mod for SS

Pretty much as soon as I hit 20 I'll TR straight away, best thing about the build; PL:Monk.

A lot of What Wax says here is totally true - I have a Ranger11/Monk9 that for melee goes Unarmed/Handwraps, and with great results despite 'only' having a base D10 damage.

@OP

I think you should consider a deep split multiclass for your Drow Monk SSword wielder - Perhaps somewhere along the lines of Monk13/Rogue7, perhaps dropping the 13th level of Monk for a third Class of something. Rogue 7 will give you a nice Sneak Damage boost for a total of:

+4D6 Rogue7 +3D6 Ninja Spy2 +1D6 Assassin 1 = 8D6 Sneak Damage (+28 Dmg Avg)