34pt Half Orc Cleric

[stoerm]

Hi,

I'm starting to think about my cleric's first TR. He's a 32pt healbot/offensive caster, which works for full groups but my guild is very small and we play most quests with only 2 or 3 player characters. With this in mind, I want the TR'd character to be more melee capable without compromising his casting DCs or impairing his heals. The main difference is dumping charisma and buffing strength. He'll get enough turns from using charisma items, enhancements and common trinkets (Silver Flame trinket, Token of the Faithful etc.).

So here's my initial plan for a non-uber gear dependent, small group friendly, survivable cleric:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
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Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 1457 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 5
Will: 20

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             17                 18                   20
Dexterity             8                  8                    8
Constitution         16                 16                   16
Intelligence          6                  6                    6
Wisdom               18                 23                   26
Charisma              6                  7                    8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Heal I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I


Level 8 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Orcish Fury III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting II


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Intervention
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II

Commentary:

• The enhancements are only tentative. For example I'd probably want Unyielding Sovereignty before level 10.
• I've deliberately left out all gear except a handful of +1 tomes.
• Extend has been consciously sacrificed considering U9 changes.
• IC:Slashing is for the Dol Dorn's Champion long sword enhancement (see below).

Questions and comments:

• I'm a bit worried the melee output is still not sufficient. Could I consider a fighter splash or perhaps a feat for weapon proficiency and not impair spell DCs? (I love my Destructions and want them to land!)
• I've maxed out concentration but omitted quicken and balance. Big problem?
• What gear should I get before TR'ing? I haven't got the play time for an uber repetoire of greensteel. If I had to pick one or two greensteel items, should it include a weapon esp. if would be just a longsword?
• Mistakes? Anything I've missed? Other suggestions?

Final note: Yes it will be a cleric rather than an FvS. The 3rd life will also be a cleric. My FvS plans are kept separate!

Thanks!

[elujin]

i could be wrong haven't build many battle clerics but isn't cha inportand for divine might

as far as i can tell 2 str gets you 1 dmg 2 cha 2dmg

[Arkadios]

Drop improved crit, spell pen and greater spell pen in favour of Quicken! maximise and empower.

[stoerm]

Drop improved crit, spell pen and greater spell pen in favour of Quicken! maximise and empower.

Thanks for the input.

I have maximize selected at level 9. Will I be able to bypass spell resistance at higher levels with just a spell pen item and clickies? I've mainly kept quicken off in my current life, so I am considering dropping it. Maybe it becomes more vital at the top levels. I'll have to think about that.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Thanks for the input.

I have maximize selected at level 9. Will I be able to bypass spell resistance at higher levels with just a spell pen item and clickies? I've mainly kept quicken off in my current life, so I am considering dropping it. Maybe it becomes more vital at the top levels. I'll have to think about that.

Quicken gives better DPS through less down time hitting cure spells while in melee.

Empower/maximise/empower healing gives more efficient cures/heal spells and much better radiant servant bursts.

Charisma gives more DPS than strength (1-1 vs 4-3). If you regularly short man quests I'd suggest UMD as well.

(Greater) Spell Penetration is important in some content but the above feats are more important (empower is optional overkill).

Heighten is more useful after level 9.

GL

[PNellesen]

I really like this idea, am considering something like it for my Human Cleric/Fighter when he TRs.

Questions and comments:

• What gear should I get before TR'ing? I haven't got the play time for an uber repetoire of greensteel. If I had to pick one or two greensteel items, should it include a weapon esp. if would be just a longsword?

Final note: Yes it will be a cleric rather than an FvS. The 3rd life will also be a cleric. My FvS plans are kept separate!

Thanks!

If I only had time for one GS item, it would be something with HP and Concordant Opposition on it, especially if I were expecting to be doing a lot of melee. I'm currently crafting a cloak for my cleric, but I've seen many people suggest goggles as a good Conc. Opp. item as well.

Good luck!

[Hellllboy]

I have seen a lot of successful Horc Cleric Builds that splash 2 levels of Fighter-but it changes the entire face of the character-would not have the offensive spell casting ability-but in exchange-you get a very good source of DPS. They typically dump WIS down a bit and concentrate on STR/CON/CHA (not that I am telling you to go that direction).

CHA can generate both DPS and Healing (Via your Burst/Aura and Divine Might). I guess if it was me-I would want this much higher.

I started my Horc Cleric out with a 16 CON and was not happy at end game-wish I could have started it out at 18 for a few more H.P.'s. I think as far as survivability-I was much happier with my Dwarf than my Horc for end game Red Bar.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

[stoerm]

Thanks to everyone for the replies, appreciate all the insights.

Glad you raised the Cha (divine might) vs. Str issue, although it makes me a bit sad. I'd really like to roll a horc cleric for the flavor. Since divine might is damage only, I wouldn't be able to dump strength either. That probably puts the idea of rolling a horc into question, so most likely go for human. Then the character starts to look an awful lot like it is now. Hmmh. A horc cleric/monk could be more viable... I'll have some time to think about it as I'm capping.

[elujin]

you don't have to max the dm's
horc will add to dps just beeing a horc
i guess it will though getting a good balance

many people roll dwarf bc's and there ugly too i mean get -6 cha

[Renvar]

Not to be a wet blanket, but in playing DDO for almost 3 years now, I've yet to find a build that can be effective at healing, offensive casting, and melee/dps all at the same time. From what I've seen you can be great at two and average at one. Trying to be great at all three generally ends up frustrating you or ending up average at two and great at one on accident.

There are just too many stats you need, feats you need, and enhancements and not enough build points, feats or AP's to make it work across the board.

I think if it is possible to get it done, you are on the right track. The HOrc with the racial strength and enhancements works better than any other race. You have to go 2HF. No way you can work Dex and the TWF feats into the build and keep offensive casting.

Even so, choices like Heighten vs. Power Attack are tough to make. And the Spell Pen's vs. Extend and Quicken. Your Divine Favor, Divine Power, and Recitation are going to be very short, even at cap. I always take extend on a melee focused cleric/fvs.

Of course, on the PA track, with a 20 strength at cap you will be approaching 30-32 with gear and buffs. That will put your to-hit in a 40-42 range buffed without PA on.

Most melee focused cleric/FvS builds put level ups in strength and spend 10+ build points on strength. And work Charisma for 8-10 build points for the DM.

As another stat note, I see only +1 tomes on your build. If this is a TR you can surely grind out 20 Reavers, VoD, Hound, and Shroud for a few +3 tomes before you do the TR. And get 1750 favor for a +2. This build gets a whole lot nicer with a +3 charisma and strength tome in there.

What I see here as is:

B+ healing build (missing quicken, full life magic/prayer of life/incredible life AP lines)
B+ Offensive casting (missing empower, spell focus feats for DC's)
C DPS/Melee (No PA/DM/Low strength/No Extend for DPS buffs)

It's a very versatile build but it's still primarily a healing and offensive casting build.

[stoerm]

Not to be a wet blanket, but in playing DDO for almost 3 years now, I've yet to find a build that can be effective at healing, offensive casting, and melee/dps all at the same time.

<snip>

What I see here as is:

B+ healing build (missing quicken, full life magic/prayer of life/incredible life AP lines)
B+ Offensive casting (missing empower, spell focus feats for DC's)
C DPS/Melee (No PA/DM/Low strength/No Extend for DPS buffs)

It's a very versatile build but it's still primarily a healing and offensive casting build.

No problem, I'm grateful for your detailed input. I've currently got a human cleric that I'm very happy with. He's 0% melee specced (pure cleric, 10 base STR, no melee feats etc.). Thinking about my second life, I thought I could spend the extra build points and twinky gear to improve melee capability while not gimping his casting. I don't want a battle cleric, just to be able to contribute to melee a bit more while maintaining the critical casting abilities.

I left gear and tomes out on purpose, since those vary wildly depending on how much time a player is able to invest. I don't want to make a gear intensive build.

If I go through with this, I've already gained a lot of ideas for improvements from the replies. For example I'd consider:
- ignore concentration and take balance instead
- take quicken, possibly SF:Necromancy, possibly great axe proficiency
- drop some of IC:slashing and the spell pen feats
- take maximize earlier, heighten later

[kcru]

i could be wrong haven't build many battle clerics but isn't cha inportand for divine might

as far as i can tell 2 str gets you 1 dmg 2 cha 2dmg

But only at the cost of a Turn attempt. Most of the time, I'd prefer an always-on 1 pt of damage and to-hit than 2pts of damage, but with fewer heals.


Most of the time.
If trying to burn down a healer or troll that changes.

[wax_on_wax_off]

No problem, I'm grateful for your detailed input. I've currently got a human cleric that I'm very happy with. He's 0% melee specced (pure cleric, 10 base STR, no melee feats etc.). Thinking about my second life, I thought I could spend the extra build points and twinky gear to improve melee capability while not gimping his casting. I don't want a battle cleric, just to be able to contribute to melee a bit more while maintaining the critical casting abilities.

I left gear and tomes out on purpose, since those vary wildly depending on how much time a player is able to invest. I don't want to make a gear intensive build.

If I go through with this, I've already gained a lot of ideas for improvements from the replies. For example I'd consider:
- ignore concentration and take balance instead
- take quicken, possibly SF:Necromancy, possibly great axe proficiency
- drop some of IC:slashing and the spell pen feats
- take maximize earlier, heighten later

Never skip concentration, you need it for scroll healing at least.
I'd not worry about greataxe proficiency, use a quarterstaff when you need the AB, greataxe when you don't and when grouping pass some masters touch scrolls to a UMD/arcane character and get them to cast it on you.

Possible feat lineup (in order): maximise, power attack, empower healing, empower, quicken, heighten, toughness.

The real optional feat here in my mind is empower. It could be swapped for IC:S or spell penetration but at least for leveling you'll get more mileage from empower I think with tougher blade barriers.

Even if you don't plan to use divine might I still wouldn't dump charisma as each 2 points in it provides ~70 SP worth of free healing when using radiant servant burst; a move you'll always be in perfect position to do being in melee. 16, 8, 14, 6, 18, 12 might be my stats.

[Habreno]

34 point... hmmm...

How about something like this:

Human: 34 Point Build

16 STR (10)
8 DEX (0)
16 CON (10)
8 INT (0)
16 WIS (10)
12 CHA (4)

Human Adaptability: WIS, STR/CON/CHA (one of them)
+2 CHA tome for DM1 (+4 if you get lucky, this gives DM2 if you manage it)
Levelups in WIS for more casting, STR for more melee, CHA + +3 CHA tome if you want DM4.
Concentration + Balance for skills.

Assuming a set of +2's, plus +6 items, you can have this for level 20:

STR: 24/25(30*) (dependent on HA #2)
DEX: 16
CON: 24/25 (dependent on HA #2)
INT: 10/16 (10 for skills, 16 when needed)
WIS: 28(33*)
CHA: 22/23(28*)(dependent on HA #2)

* Levelups + HA when applicable
WIS/CHA scores boosted +3/+2 respectively from Cleric Enhancements.

Add in a +3 Exceptional WIS for between 31 and 36 WIS dependent on levelup points.
Add in STR boosts if you max that.
Add in CHA boosts for more of that.

Really, if you go that route, you can end up with nearly anything you want to max, maxed. Good luck with it!

[Brian_of_Oz]

I had a 36 point horc battle cleric that I really enjoyed. I had decent DPS, great heals, and decent offensive casting abilities.

I took first level in fighter and the rest in cleric.
Starting stats 17 8 16 6 17 11
feat progression: toughness, powerattack, empower healing, maximize, quicken, empower, Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen ( I think I took 2 spell pens, not sure how many feats I got exactly.)
As others have pointed out you need to pick a focus and customize your build accordingly.

For all builds I strongly recommend a starting con score of 16, and at least a 10 charisma

For a focus on melee and heals I would go with a starting wisdom of 16, and 11 or 12 for charisma. Put any remaining points you have into strength.
For a focus on melee and offensive casting I would go with a 15 strength and a 18 wis. Put any remaining points into charisma.

You will need to eat some +2 tomes, most importantly in strength, wisdom and charisma. A +2 con tome is great too if you can swing it

Finally you will really want some twink gear to make this all work in a tidy package. Greensteel SP and HP items will do wonders for you. The Torc from the DQ raid is practically essential for a battle cleric. For a weapon use a lit2 falcion.
Try and work in the Sora Kell set from the Lordsmarch chain too into your gear setup. Its a very powerful set for any melee divine.
Anyways thats my 2 cents, good luck with your battle cleric, when done right they are great but if you mess up people wont love you.

[Habreno]

The only downer about dump-statting CHA is Divine Might. 14/16/18/20 BASE Charisma are not easy things to hit. While it's something that's gotta happen sometimes, it's also nice if you want a slightly lower STR for a higher base CHA for a higher tier of Divine Might. The stat location I gave would be able to give you Divine Might 1 with a +2 tome, DM2 with a +4 (only thrown in just to show you) but the battlecleric I'm working on (first-life Drow) is going to splash 5 levels and end with 18 Base Charisma for Divine Might 3. Of course, he's also totally dumping Wisdom and won't be able to cast anything with a save for ****, but he's still going to be able to heal and will have a very good melee output, while being far more survivable than that barbarian or fighter in most cases.

If you want, how I went about him was the following:

Drow for Race (+2 CHA, INT helps with skills. While -2 CON hurts, I don't have 32 point builds and this was my only option. 32 point (in your case 34) Human works well, and really the only other *good* option for one, aside from the Halves.

STR: 18 (16)
DEX: 10 (0)
CON: 12 (6)
INT: 10 (0)
WIS: 8 (0) <- I can still hit 18 for Level 8 spells: +2 tome, +2 enhancements, +6 item = 18. And I can still get level 6 spells if I get disjunctioned: Owl's Wisdom is a level 2 spell; I'll have 12 WIS without the item.
CHA: 16 (6)

Humans can do this:

STR: 18 (16)
DEX: 8 (0)
CON: 14 (6)
INT: 8 (0) <- You still get 2 skills/level due to Human.
WIS: 8 (0) <- See above WIS explanation.
CHA: 16 (10)


While going like that totally knocks offensive casting out of the ballpark, you have very good melee (levelups in STR) and Divine Might 3 (16 + 2 tome = 18 base)
I am leveling with Veteran, so I went with 2 fighter levels and 2 paladin levels, then a cleric level, then paladin, and will finish out with 14 cleric levels.

Not a bad alternative.