Different view of the Crafting System

[Requiro]

Hello. This is my vision about how general crafting system should look like. Sorry for very long post…

I was inspired by new crafting system in Update 9. And, to be honest, much more disappointed by it . Turbine give us Crafting system that is:

• Completely not new players friendly. Explanation: New players don’t have much Platinium or items (for deconstruct). All they get is very much nothing . And what they can obtain by Crafting system (at this level) is completely useless. All random generated weapons can be bought, so most new player will not waste their hard obtain cool weapon to craft exact the same, but with more cost and time. There is no point.
• Very complicated system. Explanation: Remember all elements in that system in just pain. And when we realize that 95% of our work will be wasted (only for leveling) that is just frustrating.
• Very unpleasant. Explanation: This is not cool to grind all that stuff needed for crafting. Besides, 2048 pieces of some ingredients? Absurd…
• Meaningless. Explanation: Why bother craft some random generated stuff if you just can do some quest, get Platinium and buy the same stuff faster and with more fun that just stand and destroying weapons.
• Illogical. Explanation: Why 1 level toon can craft some ML: 20 items with 100% change? This is against any DnD rules. In DnD crafting was always connected with character experience.

I think that Turbine, don’t have idea how they can implement General crafting system based on easy obtain ingredients (items). All other crafting in game so far, depend of hard obtain ingredients, that why Turbine was lost.

• The one and only cool thing in that system is that you can craft items with unique abilities (like Vampirism or Superior Stability). But this is more for Veterans who is just boring with standard game.

My main thoughts about change:

• This crafting system should give us additional options to (with little work) get random generated weapons. That will help unlucky players.
  
  • Explanation: For now with time and enough Platinium, you can obtain almost every random generated weapon in game (by AH and Vendors). That why this system should be balance in the term of time and work.

• Additionally, this system should provide additional chance to get unique weapons, with unique properties. But of course with more cost, time and work (same like for now, but with different method)
  
  • Explanation: In Mid and End game, random generated weapons are much less powerful then others Named or GS weapons. Additional, unique abilities (only 2 in each Item), give us more viability in game and this crafting system will not be only for low levels.

• Crafting system should be connected with leveling, just like everything else in DnD system
  
  • Explanation: Player should not be able to create ML:18 items on level 1 character. They should not be able to use them, not mention to create that items. But with some luck, by trying all the time they should be able to craft something even without proper experience. That why I give base change on level 50%.

General crafting in my vision:

• We can craft everything in proper slots:
• All items get 4 slots: Prefix, Suffix, Guild Slot, Race Restriction (RR)
• Weapons, Amours and shields gets additional slots: Material and Enhancement
• We can fulfil the slots by Essences (one slot = one essence = one properites)
• Essences we get by combine multiple shards of the same kind.
• Shards we get from weapon extracting or/and by combine proper collectable
• We gain more experience in crafting with character level up and by crafting items

And this is my proposal in details:

Crafting abilities, experience and level up:

• Crafting abilities match proper crafting slot (e.g. Crafting Prefix ability apply to prefix crafting slot only)
• You can get level up in each crafting abilities individually.
• Maximum level of each crafting abilities is: 20
• You gain level in crafting ability by adding crafting point (1 level up = 1 crafting point)
• Crafting point can be obtain in 4 different ways:
  
  • By level up: 2 points / 1 character level
  • By crafting items: maximum 20 point, but you can have only points equal to your character level +1
  • By feat: Crafting Master (1 point / 2 character levels)
  • By race (each race have different craft point bonus)
  • By True Resurrection (In develop – something like this: 1 additional crafting point / 1 TR)
• Each level up give you:
  
  • +5% chance to get additional shard when this kind of slot was selected
  • +1% chance to get additional shard when this kind of slot was not selected
  • +2% chance in crafting success.

Essences and shards:

• If you want put properties to weapon you must have proper Essence (e.g. Essences of Pure Good)
• Each essences must be obtain by combine multiple shard of the same kind (e.g. 3 shards of Pure Good give you 1 Essence of Pure Good)
• You can obtain shard in 3 different ways:
  
  • By items extraction
  • By combine proper collectables
  • Find in loot or quest reward.
• How much you need shard to get essence depend of the Base price modifier of the property (formula: Base price modifier x 2)
• With exceptions:
  
  • Pure Good property is unique ability (the only Alignment suffix property) that why it need: Base price modifier x 3 (3 shards)
  • Materials: Mithral and Elven: 3 shards, rest: 2 shards
  • Guild slot: Tiny:1, Small: 2, Medium: 3, Large: 4 shards
  • RR: 5 shards.
• Essences have flexibility: Higher kind can be use to lower formula (e.g. with +3 Enhancement essence you can craft +1, +2 or +3 but not +4 or +5 enhancement bonus)
• All Essences are BtA.

Crafting:

• Every essence can be place only in right slot (e.g. Pure Good Essence can be put only in Suffix Slot)
• Each slot have different success change, depends of level up in crafting abilities (and feat, items), maximum is 100%:
  
  • Base success change for every slots: 50%
  • Each level up in proper slot give you additional: +2% in proper slot (max. +40%)
  • Feat Crafting Master give you additional: +5% to all
  • Crafting and Improve Crafting properties give you +3% or +5% to all.
• When some essence failed crafting, only that essence will be destroyed, not Item.
• You can put Essences only to Masterwork items (all items after Extracting become Masterworks)

Items extraction:

• You can extract shards from items.
• While in extraction machine you can select which property you want to extract.
• You have 100% chance to get selected property shard and 0% chance to get non selected property shards.
• You have 100% chance to get double selected property shards from crafted items, and 50% chance to get non selected property shards from crafted items.
• This chances can be modified by (maximum additional 1 shard: +100%):
  
  • Proper level in crafting abilities: +5% per level for selected, 1% per level for non selected.
  • By feat: Crafting Master: +5% for selected shard
  • By Items with Crafting (5%) and Improve Crafting(10%) properties.
  • That why with maximum level up in proper crafting ability, you have e.g 100% change to get 2 shards from selected properties (3 shards from crafted items)
• Extraction remove all properties from the Item and leave only Masterwork properties (all Magic items in DDO supposed to be Masterwork)

Bounding and Minimum Level:

• Minimum Level (ML) of the crafted items depends of the added properties (same like in normal random generated loot)
• But ML in crafted items can be modified by bounding (you can choice if you want bound or not to bound the items.)
• At the beginning of crafting you must choice if you want get Unbound, BtA or BtC item.
• Unbound items gets: ML rise by: +3 (e.g. if normal ML: 10, crafted will be: ML:13)
• ML in BtA will not change.
• BtC items gets: ML lowered by: -2 (e.g. if normal ML: 10, crafted will be: ML:8)
• Bounding is irreversible.

New stuff needed in this system:

• New feat: Crafting Master: grants 1 crafting point / 2 levels, access to Exotic Crafting Recipes and 5% additional success in crafting and chance to get additional shard.
• New Items property:
  
  • Crafting (suffix, ML: 1): give you 5% chance to get additional shard while extracting and 3% chance to success while crafting.
  • Improve Crafting (suffix, ML: 3): give you 10% chance to get additional shard while extracting and 5% chance to success while crafting.
  • They won’t stack (itself and each other)
• Race bonus in crafting ability:
  
  • Dwarf: 2 points in each crafting ability and 1 additional (free) point in first level.
  • Human: 6 additional (free) point in first level
  • Elf: 4 points in Enhancements and RR
  • Drow: 2 additional (free) point in first level, 3 points in suffix and prefix
  • Warforge: 3 additional (free) point in first level
  • Horc: 2 point in Enhancement, 1 in Materials
  • Helf: 3 additional (free) point in first level, 1 point in suffix, RR and Enhancements

Exotic Crafting Recipes:

• With Crafting Master feat you can combine Essences to acquire Exotic Essences with unique properties that will not be normally obtain in random generated items
• Combining Essences process is treat like crafting ability, that why is have success probability depend of resultant of successes
• Formula: Combine Essences Success = General Success (50%) + Feat (5%) + Items (3% or 5%) + (Sum of chances from proper crafting abilities depends of essences in process / Sum of Essences in process)
• Examples (only) of properties that we can get from this ability:
  
  • Anthem
  • Songblade
  • Blood Rage
  • Bleed
  • Persuasion
  • Life Shield
  • Hallowed
  • Life Stealing
  • Thorn Guard
  • Unbalancing
  • Vampirism
  • Freeze
  • Ect.

Collectables:

• We can combine proper collectables to get one shard
• Chance of success are always 100%, nothing change it.
• All in develop, but this should be something like this:
  
  • 10x String of Prayer Beads + 5x Polished Ore + 1x Tome: Alchemist's Chapbook + 5k plat. Put all together in Stone Of Change and mix them. Now you have one shard of Pure Good
  • Ect.

Sorry for so long post, but crafting system have to be complex. There is no way for shorter version.

This is only suggestion for Developers. I completely aware that it’s probably not balance at all. But in my opinion, it is much better that U9 crafting system. New players don’t have to read everything to learn how to craft. They just get weapons, extract them, take shard together, combined them, and put essence on new weapon. With some luck (70% chance?) they get new weapon. Nice and easy

Any comments are welcome.

[Lyetisha]

Good job. Good suggestions =)

[patang01]

Interesting ideas but please - don't tie it to skill or feats. Who in their right mind would group up with someone that would gimp their own guy by wasting feats in crafting?

[Alabore]

Who in their right mind would group up with someone that would gimp their own guy by wasting feats in crafting?

Guilds or static groups.
And even PUGs could benefit from somebody who could craft free twink gear.

...

I quickly glanced over the OP's suggestion.
I am not sure about tying crafting advances to individual effects; some are more desirable than others, they'd have to be individually balanced, requiring further fine tuning from devs' part.

I am more for general streamlining of the whole process.
Keep essences, maybe do away with minor/major, and recalculate costs accordingly.
Allow shard decrafting and maybe automated item disjointing; allow people to get ALL essences back, and - again - rebalance costs accordingly.

Keep clicking, walking, zoning to a minimum.
LOTRO crafting made sense because it would grow with you; you dug up ore while exploring, and you could craft yourself a nice blade rivalling with same-level quest rewards.

In DDO you don't quite explore, most of the walking is to and from a teleport anchor point.
Crafting experience is just a way to delay and regulate output so players can't start churning out items from the very beginning, trivialising the whole questing side of the game.

If we really need a progress bar, tie it to account; we toss item into an automated disjoint machine, or sell them to a disjointer vendor, and we get essences and crafting credits.
Would make more sense than the fake-LOTRO crafting levels.

There is potential to the crafting system, a giant step in the right direction.
Now, as they correctly said, let's see how those toes land.

[Lyetisha]

Now, as they correctly said, let's see how those toes land.

That was me =)

[Alabore]

That was me =)

Aye.
I didn't quite get all of your points - but that one image struck a chord with me.

[Jahmin]

Interesting ideas but please - don't tie it to skill or feats. Who in their right mind would group up with someone that would gimp their own guy by wasting feats in crafting?

The group using said crafting gimp's items?

[Alabore]

As an aside...
I've seen many players building for extreme DPS, to the point of dumping some class specific abilities.
I met a horc pure rogue who couldn't get traps my rog/brd and rog/rbg had no trouble removing.

These guys could easily solo the quest on elite - save for the odd trap, rune or lever that really forces them to team up.
Being extremely specialised leaves them somewhat weaker in other areas - that's were less combat focused chars shine in support roles.

[Requiro]

Good job. Good suggestions =)

Thanks for very positive respond

Interesting ideas but please - don't tie it to skill or feats. Who in their right mind would group up with someone that would gimp their own guy by wasting feats in crafting?

Why not? I tie crafting only with one feat. And only if you want something more then random generated items.

You can always do something like this: After you get proper essences, you go to the Fred and change the feat. And you have 3 days for Exotic crafting. After that you can change that feat again. That will cost you, but that is the point. You can gimp a little yourself without cost (or be Fighter/Wizard), or pay for dragonshards (in Platinium or TP ) and be super cool

Everything else in my system is free, while leveling.

Guilds or static groups.
And even PUGs could benefit from somebody who could craft free twink gear.

...

I quickly glanced over the OP's suggestion.
I am not sure about tying crafting advances to individual effects; some are more desirable than others, they'd have to be individually balanced, requiring further fine tuning from devs' part.

Agree. My proposal is only suggestion, probably not balance at all.

I am more for general streamlining of the whole process.
Keep essences, maybe do away with minor/major, and recalculate costs accordingly.
Allow shard decrafting and maybe automated item disjointing; allow people to get ALL essences back, and - again - rebalance costs accordingly.

Keep clicking, walking, zoning to a minimum.
LOTRO crafting made sense because it would grow with you; you dug up ore while exploring, and you could craft yourself a nice blade rivalling with same-level quest rewards.

In DDO you don't quite explore, most of the walking is to and from a teleport anchor point.
Crafting experience is just a way to delay and regulate output so players can't start churning out items from the very beginning, trivialising the whole questing side of the game.

If we really need a progress bar, tie it to account; we toss item into an automated disjoint machine, or sell them to a disjointer vendor, and we get essences and crafting credits.
Would make more sense than the fake-LOTRO crafting levels.

There is potential to the crafting system, a giant step in the right direction.
Now, as they correctly said, let's see how those toes land.

I agree that Turbine do very good move. But I’m against current system. New system is just pain. And you don’t get anything powerful (in opposite to GreenStall Items).

And there is potential in all crafting systems. Because that is inherent part of crafting system itself = Potential.

The group using said crafting gimp's items?

Why gimp? You can reselect your feat if you feel gimp (by Fred), and you can create items with –2 ML (BtC). In my opinion this is nice advantage. Additionally for new players is nice (you must only find 3x weapon with PG, 2xAcid = Your Acid weapon PG BtC with –2 ML) and for veterans is nice to create unique items (this Exotic Essence system need some work but IMO is much more fun then current)

[Zildoran]

A system similar to this would make much more sense than the current grind/click fest that is crafting on lama. I don't think I will even bother with crafting unless it is streamlined into less clicks/running back and forth.

[Alabore]

I agree that Turbine do very good move. But I’m against current system. New system is just pain. And you don’t get anything powerful (in opposite to GreenStall Items).

Some of your points made sense to me: make some essences suitably rare by requiring specific questing - as opposed to being able to be an armchair crafter and churn out holy of greater bane by simply tossing trash bought from AH into the disjoint-machine.

Whichever the case, we agree the current system has a lot of potential, but it also adds a new layer of tedium to post-quest vendoring chores.

[Requiro]

A system similar to this would make much more sense than the current grind/click fest that is crafting on lama. I don't think I will even bother with crafting unless it is streamlined into less clicks/running back and forth.

Thanks for support

And BTW Turbine: This sentence:

(...)The crafting is simple and straightforward (...)

from this article: http://www.tentonhammer.com/ddo/update9-preview

is just a lie... This system is not simple. Not at all.

I hope that current "beta" crafting system in U9, will be change dramatically in the future.

[Lyetisha]

Don't worry. TTH has never been known to be either honest or fair. If they said bad things about a company, that company won't invite them back =)