Kensai/Spy

[Deathlos]

This is a personal build i have made. taking only the inspiration i have garnered from two past lives of monk.

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deathftr? 
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(10 Fighter \ 10 Monk) 
Hit Points: 334
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 16
Will: 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    18
Dexterity            17                    21
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         11                    13
Wisdom               17                    27
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     5
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         6                    29
Diplomacy            -1                     1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                  3                     8
Hide                  3                     9
Intimidate            1                    25
Jump                  1                    11
Listen                3                    10
Move Silently         3                     7
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     1
Spot                  3                     8
Swim                  5                     9
Tumble                7                    22
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Kensei Unarmed Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) IV
Enhancement: Fighter Unarmed Specialization I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Tenacious Badger I
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

This is a AC Dps Build.

Stats.
AC Mode.*primary mode*
Str. 12Base+3Tome+3Enchancements+6Item+1Except+3profane +2yag+2ship+2Madstone= 34
Dex. 17base+2tome+2Enchancements+2stance+6Item+1except+ 2ship+2yag= 34
Con. 14Base+2Tome+2Ship+6item-2stance+4Madstone = 26*wanna fight about it!*
Wis. 17Base+5Level+2Tome+2Ship+3Enchancements+6Item+1Ex cept+2Yag= 38
Int. 11base+2tome, rest doesnt matter
Chr. 8base+2tome+6item?(might add to a epic item for higher Intimi.)+2=18

Dps Mode.
Add 4Str due to stance and rage
Minus 2dex*loss of stance*
Minus 3 wis Fire stance and swapping out Except wis for Garments of equal.

Gear.
Helm. Minos Legions*looking for epic helm of frost when able*
Neck. Khyosoi's*shinato.* or Oremi's
Cloak. GS, Greater fire res. Except wis. Deathblock. +7intim +10Conitration. *looking for epic envenomed*
Belt. Min II Hp.
Ring. Gilvanor's ring *holy burst*
Ring. Khyosoi's/Oremis *both have shocking burst*
Gloves. Epic Charged*GFL slotted* titans grip*clicky!*
Boots. Epic boots of Corrosion, Madstone, Archoring,
Bracers. epic Scorched.
Armor. DT. +5 resistance 1Except wis 4insight
Googles. Tharnes
Trinket. Pale Lavender Ioun Stone, Bloodstone

I have all gear listed, besides the ones i say im looking for.

AC.
10Base
12Dex
14wis
5Protect
4insight
4Natural
8Armor
3Profane
3Centered
1alchemical
1Size
2Buffs*my guild is missing one of the AC ones:'(*
1feat
5CE
73Self Buffed.

+4 Bard
+6 Pld
+2 Recitation
+1 Haste
*somthing else? i forget these things!*
86Raid buffs.

Also have Abishai cookies i pop every time i tank suul for an extra 6AC?

HP.
334 With the enchancements and feats tome.
+ 60Con item
+ 45GS Item
+ 30GFL
+ 20toughness*minos*
+ 40 Madstone
=
529

Stunning Fist. 10Base+10lvls*U9!*+10wraps+14Wis+4Enchancements+1K ensai=49 stunning fist. not bad if i say so myself....
Stunning Blow. 10Base+10Wraps+12Str+4enchancements+1Kensai= 37Meh!

Well, Tell me what you think. I currently have him at lvl 14, and hes kicking some pretty serious arse*but then agin what well equiped melee at this level isnt?*
Would have prolly did some lvl ups differnt. but was planning on going 12ftr/8monk at the start. decided later that ToD and Improved evasion and +2 AC was too good to pass off.
Needless to say, like 90% of other posters im prolly not going to change much about him this life.
Looking for feedback never the less.

Also, im terrible at it. anyone have a good name for this build?XD
Maybe the walking god...

[elujin]

haven't looked in that well at work but 10/10 split seems wierd

woudn't 12/8 of ieghter work better or am i missing somthing ?

[Deathlos]

haven't looked in that well at work but 10/10 split seems wierd

woudn't 12/8 of ieghter work better or am i missing somthing ?

I can tell. from the end of the post.

"Would have prolly did some lvl ups differnt. but was planning on going 12ftr/8monk at the start. decided later that ToD and Improved evasion and +2 AC was too good to pass off."


toD, Improved Evasion. +2 AC, higher saves. vs 3Dmg, 2Attack*perswing*, 25%Haste Boost,Power Surge. 4intim and 30hp. Just decided that it was the better trade off. Since a Tod every 15secs is 33dmg Per hit, and thats only if its a one hitter. not a 2-4hitter.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I can tell. from the end of the post.

"Would have prolly did some lvl ups differnt. but was planning on going 12ftr/8monk at the start. decided later that ToD and Improved evasion and +2 AC was too good to pass off."


toD, Improved Evasion. +2 AC, higher saves. vs 3Dmg, 2Attack*perswing*, 25%Haste Boost,Power Surge. 4intim and 30hp. Just decided that it was the better trade off. Since a Tod every 15secs is 33dmg Per hit, and thats only if its a one hitter. not a 2-4hitter.

ToD is about 31 DPS which is less DPS than power surge or rogue dilettante and that's taking into account double and triple strikes. Also, in U9 Ki will be less abundant so you will have to choose between ToD or stunning fist.

[Deathlos]

ToD is about 31 DPS which is less DPS than power surge or rogue dilettante and that's taking into account double and triple strikes. Also, in U9 Ki will be less abundant so you will have to choose between ToD or stunning fist.

500/15 = 33.33333333.... for a single hit. 66.66666... double, 99.99999..... triple, suppose you add in the save... its differnt.

Rogue dile doesnt work to well when im tanking*not to mention being, umm impossible for a halfling*. Power Surge, maybe deals more dmg. havent bothered to run the numbers.
But then agin what about this build makes you think that im trying for a max dps build?

and on the last part, ToD for bosses, Stunning for trash. easy breezy.

[wax_on_wax_off]

500/15 = 33.33333333.... for a single hit. 66.66666... double, 99.99999..... triple, suppose you add in the save... its differnt.

Rogue dile doesnt work to well when im tanking*not to mention being, umm impossible for a halfling*. Power Surge, maybe deals more dmg. havent bothered to run the numbers.
But then agin what about this build makes you think that im trying for a max dps build?

and on the last part, ToD for bosses, Stunning for trash. easy breezy.

Using ToD against bosses is going to be 250, 95% of the time as your DC will only be 10 points behind a normal monk.

*tries to think maths*

Ok, out of 20 ToD uses we'll see 20*1.85=37 attacks (GTWF + 5% doublestrike from air stance II), 1.85 of which will miss, 1.7575 will do 500 damage and 33.925 doing 250 damage; (500*1.7575+250*33.925)/20/15=31.2 DPS. Obviously, if an opponent is not saving all the time then you will do more damage but you are 10 DC behind a monk so I can't imagine that this will happen in any content that matters.

Happy?

I mentioned rogue dilettante as something to compare the DPS that you get from ToD with.

Race choice doesn't make a big difference. You can't tank with this build as you don't have any strategy for holding aggro (no significant DPS, no intimidate). Half-elf or Half-orc will likely give more DPS. Dwarf or Warforged will give better stun DCs.

Stunning Fist DC will be the redeeming feature of this build, it's great that you'll have a good DC but you're giving up too much to get it. In pre-U9, a DC ~40 has generally been accepted from what I've seen as a useful DC, post-U9 it looks like saves are going up by ~4-5 so adjust accordingly.

The biggest problem I see is that you aren't getting enough use from your wisdom. High wisdom is giving you more AC and higher stunning fist DC and that's it. In some content you'll struggle to hit due to your low AB, your DPS will be what, 50% of a real DPS character? Your strength and dexterity end up the same and you have weapon finesse? Either go finesse and put your level ups there (45-47 stunning fist DC still works) as you need the AB or go strength based and skip weapon finesse to free up a feat.

If you want DPS then go 12 fighter / 8 monk. If you want versatility then go 12 monk / 8 fighter (and still do more DPS than what you've got). Ranger 6 or Rogue 7 can also be interesting options which might work depending on your goals.

If this is a solo only or flavour build then if it works for you then great

If it isn't just a flavour build, what are your goals besides AC and stunning fist?

[Deathlos]

Funny on how you say i cant tank, since this build is looking at even more dps then my previous life, who tanked just fine in most situations, with some of the better Dps in khyber. *i actually already have the same base as my previous life minus d10, but i also have anther 6lvls to gain more then that.*
"I blame most of the loss of hate due to **** chains... stuipid suul..."

Its also kinda funny when someone has you as a AC tank alot, then also calls you one of the heavy hitters and tells you not to pull hate.

If you acully looked at the build, you would see that i do in fact, have intimidate^^

Also, I hit just fine in most epics with my previous life. and from the looks of it, im also going to have more attack this life as well.

I guess it goes to say, you cant tell everything you need to know by looking at a build. You need to ethier see it in action or play it yourself.

Also, I just cant up and switch races mid lvl,
Helves dont give you more Dps while tanking.
horc will give you slightly more dps, but at a higher ap cost. which this build is a bit short on.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Funny on how you say i cant tank, since this build is looking at even more dps then my previous life, who tanked just fine in most situations, with some of the better Dps in khyber. *i actually already have the same base as my previous life minus d10, but i also have anther 6lvls to gain more then that.*
"I blame most of the loss of hate due to **** chains... stuipid suul..."

Its also kinda funny when someone has you as a AC tank alot, then also calls you one of the heavy hitters and tells you not to pull hate.

If you acully looked at the build, you would see that i do in fact, have intimidate^^

Also, I hit just fine in most epics with my previous life. and from the looks of it, im also going to have more attack this life as well.

I guess it goes to say, you cant tell everything you need to know by looking at a build. You need to ethier see it in action or play it yourself.

Also, I just cant up and switch races mid lvl,
Helves dont give you more Dps while tanking.
horc will give you slightly more dps, but at a higher ap cost. which this build is a bit short on.

It's great to hear all this and I'm glad to hear all of this but all you're really doing is referring to the split between build, gear and player skill which gives the final result and I can see that you have plenty of good gear and probably a lot of skill too.

When you get down to it, +8 strength by being strength based instead of wisdom based is only going to add ~12 DPS or so assuming you always hit on a 2 either way. Hard to say how many situations the +4 AB will make a difference (or do you have no problem hitting Epic Lailat with her ~75 AC?).

It's one thing to compare your DPS to other people that you've quested with but what is there DPS? Did they have inferior gear to you? Were they inferior players?

When it comes down to it, your build will do less damage than a 12 monk / 8 fighter or 12 fighter / 8 monk, less damage than a strength based version of your build, less damage than a half orc. All of these factors combined and the DPS is lacking across the board.

However, make all those changes and put it in an unskilled players hands without any gear and of course your build will be better as played by you with your gear.

It's it's fun for you then go with it, if you have the gear to hate tank and those eSoS barbarians don't have to turn off power attack then cool.

[Deathlos]

It's great to hear all this and I'm glad to hear all of this but all you're really doing is referring to the split between build, gear and player skill which gives the final result and I can see that you have plenty of good gear and probably a lot of skill too.

When you get down to it, +8 strength by being strength based instead of wisdom based is only going to add ~12 DPS or so assuming you always hit on a 2 either way. Hard to say how many situations the +4 AB will make a difference (or do you have no problem hitting Epic Lailat with her ~75 AC?).

It's one thing to compare your DPS to other people that you've quested with but what is there DPS? Did they have inferior gear to you? Were they inferior players?

When it comes down to it, your build will do less damage than a 12 monk / 8 fighter or 12 fighter / 8 monk, less damage than a strength based version of your build, less damage than a half orc. All of these factors combined and the DPS is lacking across the board.

However, make all those changes and put it in an unskilled players hands without any gear and of course your build will be better as played by you with your gear.

It's it's fun for you then go with it, if you have the gear to hate tank and those eSoS barbarians don't have to turn off power attack then cool.

Dunno about epic lailat, ive only done DQ 3 times, none of them have been on epic, just dont see anything i really want in there.*even tho 2/3 runs ive pulled a named item, they sit around in my bank...*

It just might be skill that lets me do it, i dunno. and i find that all builds are usally played best by their creator, and most builds require alot of good gear.

And its always a drag to have to stand there and block while the Horc 80str eSoS Red Dragonscale barb tank reestablishes aggro.*well, maybe this doesnt happen as many times as i want:P*

To anyone reading.

*Disclaimer. this is a good build if played right, suggest doing the two lives of monk*AC perfered.* to build up a good stash of Equipment and handwraps and to learn how to play what i believe this build is based off. and to any that decide to go with my hairbrained crazy noobish 10/10split, Good luck!. and im hoping to post some achivements on the forums once im 20, so stay tunned...*

[wax_on_wax_off]

Dunno about epic lailat, ive only done DQ 3 times, none of them have been on epic, just dont see anything i really want in there.*even tho 2/3 runs ive pulled a named item, they sit around in my bank...*

Maybe we can just assume that the differences in our opinions comes down to the different content that we choose to run?

There is quite a few very high AC mobs out there from elite orthons in amrath to epic lailat and a lot inbetween. Monks are generally understood to be low AB characters. Taking Kensai I and having epic gear overcomes that somewhat but you'll still be quite short in some quests, just saying.

Picking up Kensai II would give +3 to attack? Being strength based would give +4. Being half-orc would give +2.

From the start, I wouldn't suggest you make the cookie cutter build that everyone else does, I just suggest that know what the benchmark is and try to work within 5% of it. At least make 1 of the changes (class split, stat split OR race choice), preferably make 2 (I'd suggest to be strength or dexterity based and take 12 class levels in either monk or fighter) but either way just making some change will make a significant difference.

That's my approach to character building anyway, I like to get creative and do things that haven't been done before but it's good to have a benchmark and work within some margin of that.

[mournbladereigns]

Its definitely close on going for 10 monk versus 12/8 or 8/12. I think post u9 gives more interesting options, and important considerations. Looks your not using Fire stance/or crane, so even with Oremis you'll won't be able to spam ToD easily post U9. The no more auto-crit, makes significant difference for both burst damage and ki gen.
.

Kensei II provides signficant Ki gen bonuses during power surge you generate an additional 2 ki on successful attacks during your surge.

12 Monk lets you get Master of STone, which not only gives ES III, +12 dmg and 2d6 acid, but in U9, (grand)Master of stone gives you crit bonuses like Frenzied Berserker. They also reduced cost of Elemental strikes to a flat 5 Ki for all levels as part of changes to ki gen in U9.

From U9 release notes
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206066

Mountain Stance III and IV now also increase the critical multiplier of monk weapons (and unarmed combat) by 1 on rolled of a natural 19 or 20.

which gives a very nice x3 crit for HW's for all out DPSing, more important do to loss of burst attacks from auto-crits.

So some things to consider. Given your pile of gear and Past lifes, build will kick ass as is. Just some post U9 considerations.

[Phidius]

...

...
Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse
...
...

This is a AC Dps Build.

Stats.
AC Mode.*primary mode*
Str. 12Base+3Tome+3Enchancements+6Item+1Except+3profane +2yag+2ship+2Madstone= 34
Dex. 17base+2tome+2Enchancements+2stance+6Item+1except+ 2ship+2yag= 34
Con. 14Base+2Tome+2Ship+6item-2stance+4Madstone = 26*wanna fight about it!*
Wis. 17Base+5Level+2Tome+2Ship+3Enchancements+6Item+1Ex cept+2Yag= 38
Int. 11base+2tome, rest doesnt matter
Chr. 8base+2tome+6item?(might add to a epic item for higher Intimi.)+2=18

Dps Mode.
Add 4Str due to stance and rage
Minus 2dex*loss of stance*
Minus 3 wis Fire stance and swapping out Except wis for Garments of equal.

...

You should drop Weapon Finesse.

1. In AC mode, your Str and Dex are equal.
2. In DPS mode, your Str is 6 higher than Dex.

If you also drop your 2nd toughness, you could easily go 12 monk/8 fighter.

[Deathlos]

You should drop Weapon Finesse.

1. In AC mode, your Str and Dex are equal.
2. In DPS mode, your Str is 6 higher than Dex.

If you also drop your 2nd toughness, you could easily go 12 monk/8 fighter.

Might swap it out at 20, but while leveling, my dex will always be several points higher then my str.
And anyhow, its only even for 2mins while madstoned, which as been pointed out monks are low on BAB, so i want to have the max i can at all times.

Then also, If i go 12monk/8fighter, i lose a Stunning blow. Fighter str III*thus leaving me at an uneven number.* and a extra 2Attack.
and in benifit...
I get a extra 2d2 dmg, extra sneak attack dmg for when im not tanking... and wind stance III, which would throw me into uneven dex as well.

Its a lose some gain some situation, would be better*going 12/8, but not better imo to my build overall.* if i built for it before i started lvling. but i didnt.
And why would i need to drop my second toughness?

[Koopaling]

I have a question regarding Kensei/Ninja Spy. Considering that ninja spys can use shortswords as a ki weapon, would a kensei shortsword focused be any good - i mean, i know that shortswords are no good, buuut it would seem cool xD - ?