Will U9 Make Elves good?

[Yorubi]

I wanted to roll a sorceress (yes ess, she is a female so no er pssh) and I do want to do good but truth be told I am willing to lack a little in terms of being absolute best to just be a nicer race. As that is said, the new change to elves getting that one caster enhancement (20 SP and +1 penetration per enhancement per level up to rank 4 I believe) would that makes elves better then human?

Yes I know there are drow, but lets pretend they don't exist. I'm not fond of elves myself but much less fond of drow.

Anyways off that rant, I was wondering if it might be better to go with an Elven Sorc instead for U9 with that new enhancement or if Humans still hold good use as a sorc with their extra feat and +1 Cha they can use.

Edit: Err scratch out sorcerer part, figure I'd ask a more general question regarding wizards more so then actual sorcs. Still address it the same way just with the different class in mind.

[voxson5]

Elven arcanium is only for wizards :/

[Yorubi]

Oh? Bleh! Well then curious still then do you think it would be good wizard wise? Haha different class but caster none the less

[SolarDawning]

Oh? Bleh! Well then curious still then do you think it would be good wizard wise? Haha different class but caster none the less

Yes.
+4 to spell penetration is nothing to scoff at.
It'll make landing crowd control and instant death spells in high level content much easier.

[voxson5]

I should think so - the extra +4 spell pen will definitely help, and means you can multiclass without loosing too much.

18/2 (wiz/rog) would be an ideal split and has been done very successfully by a lot of people (myself included)

Drow are considered the optimal pale-master race, so in comparisson with an 18/2:

Drow get:
+1 DC (extra 2 int)
+1 reflex (from the extra int, assuming insightful reflexes are taken)
spell resistance
lower starting con (max is 14 on a standard non-tr Drow)

Elves get:
+80 sp
+4 spell penetration
16 max starting con (32 point, points into int & con)

Even at only 18 levels of wiz your spell pen as an elf will be 2 more than a pure caster (assuming the same items, enhancements & feats)


U9 also brings in the zombie form at level 6 wiz, which is a massive boost in survivability (aura healing, +2 con from form, 100% fort, deathward), so you dont have to worry that all you can umd is a cure minor wand

[Yorubi]

Thanks its good to know. I figured that extra penetration would be good (seemed really good to me though I'm rather new to this game so I was just having to assume) and what you point out only made me think so more. I have a feeling when i do decide to go wizard, I'll be making on of the elven variety.

[SolarDawning]

Personally, I'm looking forward to an 18 wizard/2 rogue Elf Pale Master, with shield proficiency and mastery as selected feats.

Reduction to all incoming physical damage just for holding a shield? Yes please.

[Failedlegend]

Personally, I'm looking forward to an 18 wizard/2 rogue Elf Pale Master, with shield proficiency and mastery as selected feats.

Reduction to all incoming physical damage just for holding a shield? Yes please.

Yeah I'm definitely considering the shield stuff but only if the new crafting system is intuitive enough that I can make a caster focused shield.

Also I really wish "Race Change Tokens" existed...I'm fed up with not looking like a mage and now that elves (which IMOare an iconic mage race) are actually useful I want to switch since I originally wanted to be an elf i just couldn't get past the -2 con...but Palemaster + U9 Elf Arcanum change that.

[voxson5]

Heh, never thought of doing that

[Yorubi]

Hmm I must say this does make me more interested in playing Wizard. I do like sorcs a lot but at the same time wizards do well in getting so many spells and the versatility is nice. Granted it is off topic, but is there any good general build to follow around, particularly taking in mind the new chances to U9 (which since it is enhancement it shouldn't be that crazy difference) that I could use for a basis of making up a build?

[wax_on_wax_off]

I've given up on the 2 rogue splash. It costs 1 DC, 1 feat, 2 spell penetration, spells and spell points. What you get out of it is not really all that flash (as I tend to just run past traps even on my rogue splash).

If I want evasion I'll go 2 monk. It has good synergy with pale master if you want some unarmed flavour, you get 2 free feats (toughness + something else), good saves boost, more HP and other perks.

On balance though, I'll go pure (at least on a first life). Nothing like the raw power and versatility of a pure wizard and with the changes to spells those 8th and 9th level slots are even more valuable.

Pure on elf means +4 Spell Penetration so you're only 2 behind a triple wizard PL caster, that's the comparison to make.

[wax_on_wax_off]

This is about the best general guide for any class: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660

[Yorubi]

Ah thanks for the link. Hmm I'll check out what there is and make my own little fun variations to it.

Edit: Nvm the strength comment, decided "nah not important" and just didn't bother with it. ^^;;

[Habreno]

Elves suffer a -2 penalty to CON as well as Drow, so Elves wouldn't get any more HP than Drow.

[azrael4h]

Elves suffer a -2 penalty to CON as well as Drow, so Elves wouldn't get any more HP than Drow.

Drow can only use 28 point builds on a first life, meaning a 32pt build Elf can invest more into CON, giving them more hp.

[voodoogroves]

I'm looking at Fighter2 and not Rogue2 on the PM. Rogue2 builds are funish, but really not where my head is these days.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Oh? Bleh! Well then curious still then do you think it would be good wizard wise? Haha different class but caster none the less

Well, an Elven Wizard in U9 would be able to hit the same DC as a WF Archmage in the schools of Necromancy and Enchantment, but get +4 spell pen on top of the AM.

I'd say that's pretty awesome. You'd be 1 DC behind a Drow, Human, or Helf though (but still +4 Spell pen to all of them).

[shores11]

I wanted to roll a sorceress (yes ess, she is a female so no er pssh) and I do want to do good but truth be told I am willing to lack a little in terms of being absolute best to just be a nicer race. As that is said, the new change to elves getting that one caster enhancement (20 SP and +1 penetration per enhancement per level up to rank 4 I believe) would that makes elves better then human?

Yes I know there are drow, but lets pretend they don't exist. I'm not fond of elves myself but much less fond of drow.

Anyways off that rant, I was wondering if it might be better to go with an Elven Sorc instead for U9 with that new enhancement or if Humans still hold good use as a sorc with their extra feat and +1 Cha they can use.

Edit: Err scratch out sorcerer part, figure I'd ask a more general question regarding wizards more so then actual sorcs. Still address it the same way just with the different class in mind.

Elves are already good.

[danlan]

I dont think spell penetration is too much of a big deal. 29-31 spell penetration will suffice most epics (except those involving drows... but still u can web them), you can easily achieve this with spell penetration items and/or rahkir set on a archmage. Human is still the best for pale master and wf is the best for archmage.

[Seventh]

I dont think spell penetration is too much of a big deal. 29-31 spell penetration will suffice most epics (except those involving drows... but still u can web them), you can easily achieve this with spell penetration items and/or rahkir set on a archmage. Human is still the best for pale master and wf is the best for archmage.

That +4 spell pen will be a big deal when you're trying to Wail/FoD those SR'd casters, especially on non-TR'd toons. Since Wizzies don't really need the human bonus feat and the -con is less of an issue with undead mode healing, I'd say elf is a pretty good race for Pale Masters now. It's nice that they're finally useful for something, instead of being drow/Helfs but worse. Unless Helfs get the SR line as well? I don't think I saw that in the llama notes.