Warcrye - A Bard with some fight in her

[Blank_Zero]

Oh good! You found it!

Now to flame each other about melee bards!

[Warinx]

Too many good choices for AP really:

Helf Warchanter II Kensai I AP Selection:
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

Kensei Pack: 11 AP for +1 hit +1 damage, +2 Seeker, +1 Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy and Intimidate, +1 Combat DC +1 Action Boost, +1 reflex against spells
Assumed Build minimum: 43 AP (Maxed Songs and Scrolls) as well as fighter haste II

Had to drop Racial and Fighter Toughness II aswell as +1 Con Human Adaptability, to make room for all the extras. Leaving it at -20 hp compared to my current Half Orc TWF Kensei Warchanter II build (also -20% song duration and -1 Action Boost)

Compared to same classes but half orc:
-10 hp - Fighter Toughness II
-10 hp - Racial Toughness II
-20% Song Duration - Lingering Song I
-1 Haste Boost - Orcish Extra Action Boost I
-3 Strength
-3 Power Attack Damage
+3d6 Sneak Attack Damage
+25% Damage Boost
+5 Skill Boost
+2 Int (23 skill points)
+2 Cha

[Warinx]

Helf 14 Bard 4 Fighter 2 Rogue
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I

Compared to current Warcrier build (14 Warchanter 6 Kensei)
EVASION!
+32 Skill Points (With possibility of Trap skills)
+3d6 Sneak Attack Damage
+1 Constitution
+1 To hit when Sneak Attacking
+10% Healing Amp
+20% Song Duration
+1 Reflex Save
-4 Strength
-3 Power Attack Damage
-1 hit
-1 damage,
-2 Seeker,
-8 hp
-2 Action Boost,
-1 Will and Fortitude Save
-1 Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy and Intimidate,
-1 Combat DC

[Warinx]

For Paladin Dilly for the 14 4 2 split:
+5 to all saves
-2 Constitution (to afford 13 Charisma)
-4 Sneak Attack damage (diffrence between 3d6 and 1d6+3)
-10% Healing Amp (Had to drop it to afford Dilly and Sneak attack)

Don't know if I like that deal. Maybe look at some other Dillys for Helf, since if you splash rogue you already get 6.5 Sneak attack and Dilly is only 10.5

Question is if you can shave some of the Bard utility stuff for extra AP... -1 to hit on songs = 6 ap -1 Scroll rank = 4 ap ... YUM! xD

[CoasterHops]

Cool Bard build. Bump....

[Warinx]

Hmm looking at the numbers I'm thinking Half Orc might be better even for TWF if you wanna keep songs and scrolls maxed..

Maybe go Horc 14 Warchanter 4 Fighter 2 Rogue even for -1 hit&damage -2 Seeker -1 Strength vs +1d6+3 and evasion

[Blank_Zero]

The biggest thing is, do you sacrifice DPS for survivability? Or the other way around?

The main role a Bard gets in Epics is singing for the melees/casters, or Fascinating eVON6 bases. High saves > DPS in that case, which HElf has over HOrc.

also, you are losing very minimal DPS with TWF, and only a bit more with THF due to Damage Boost stacknig, and being percentage now.


Honestly, barring alignment, my best melee bard build would be 14 WC Bard/4 Rogue/2 Paladin. HOrc if THF and HElf if TWF. Unfortunately, that doesn't work now. :<

Looking at the differences between 15/3rogue/2 ftr vs. 16/2/2 right now. I run with too many AC types now to not get the song :/

[Warinx]

It's too boring to heal splatsplat even without the song, don't give him IH aswell >_<

16/2/2 hurts bad for a 2WF though, losing 2 feats, compared to Kensei. Guess extend and either BarbPL/Toughness would have to go.

Interesting to see how much sacrifice you'd have to make to be a pally dilly 16 2 2 Helf with trap skills. I'll play around with the builder a bit. Really hurts your con, hard to do before you have a +4 Dex tome for a 2wfer atleast. So you'd only need 13 dex 13 cha, then however much int you feel you have the hp for, wich for a bard isn't much at all imo.

16
14(13 with +4 tome)
16
13(14 if +4 dex)
8
13 (Pally Dilly)

Lets you easily have rogue skills but it really sucks to give up the "max dps" approach build. Hmm

[Warinx]

IMO this looks better than having to drop 5 ability points for 13 Charisma and Pally Dilly. Atleast before you have +4 Dex and Int tomes.
With 2HF you could do 13 int and 13 charisma instead of 14 dex 12 int and get pally dilly instead. +4 Sneak Attack damage is a bigger deal for a 2WFer anyway.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Elf Male
(2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 330
Spell Points: 425 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 16
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    28
Dexterity            14                    17
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         12                    15
Wisdom                8                    11
Charisma              8                    11


Skills
Use Magic Device      23
Perform               23
Search                23
Concentration         23
Disable Device        23
Open Lock             9
Jump 4, Haggle 3, Balance 5, Spot 4, Tumble 1

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 2 (Bard)

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR

Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR

Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 13 (Bard)
Level 14 (Rogue)
Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR

Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

[Blank_Zero]

I'll put up a 16/2/2 and a 14/4/2 variant comparison here sometime soon. Rogue seems to be the way to go over Barb now that the PLF is fixed.

[Blank_Zero]

Warcrye has capped again as a 16/2 ftr/2 rogue HElf with Paladin Dilly.

I'm going to play around with it a while I see where it falls versus the 14/4/2 in terms of playability, grouping, raiding, epics, etc.

[Blank_Zero]

I can't lie. Dance is an amazing thing for epics. Currently awaiting the enhancements pass to decide between 16/2/2 or 18/2 for third tier pre.

[Blank_Zero]

I will be adding to the OP soon, or maybe just make a new Thread altogether with all the build options once T3 PrEs are released. Keep a lookout on Khyber for Warcrye

[Blank_Zero]

Welp, now I have NO idea what to do....

Fight Club just got interesting, and the Enhance update has been pushed back til at least August it seems :/


Looks like I'll be waiting even longer to redo her build. I'll keep you all posted though.

[Blank_Zero]

Fatesinger made the 18/2 split way more fun and viable. Too bad, as the 14/4/2 was amazing fun, but now it gets locked out of Inspire Excellence :/

Once all the PrEs are released, I'll redo a new thread on War's final setup. Still have HElf, still have HV4, and still have maxed Pally Dillitante. Also still have 40+ Reflex save on a bard without any crazy twists

[Dwarfo]

Fatesinger made the 18/2 split way more fun and viable. Too bad, as the 14/4/2 was amazing fun, but now it gets locked out of Inspire Excellence :/

18/2 fighter or rogue?

[MeliCat]

It's too boring to heal splatsplat even without the song, don't give him IH aswell >_<

It's not just Fel though... many many AC people around. Mil has 100AC on his cleric he told me yesterday....

[Blank_Zero]

18/2 fighter or rogue?

Rogue

[NytCrawlr]

Thanks for the build. Definitely going to do this or something similar for the bard life on my completionist (I can't believe I am going to try and do it!).

Will keep watch.

[Blank_Zero]

Enjoy it! It's a blast to level! I just find 18/2 rogue to be better at current endgame. Evasion is a lifesaver lol.