Enthrallment and Suggestion

[CanuckWisdom]

Hello,

I have a 16 virtuoso bard who is great to play, but it has always bothered me that Suggestion doesn't work with Enthrallment. Or at least, any time Ive tried it it hasn't.

I don't understand this. The effect is essentially the same (enthrallment and fascinate) on the monsters, except that enthrallment debuffs. To me this seems like the bonus I get for spending the points on an enhancement line (virtuoso, the singing-is-my-strength prestige if the name suggests anything), an upgraded version of fascinate.

But its not, because you can't use suggestion on enthralled creatures. So in my mind it looks like this: You can choose to use your upgraded version of fascinate and debuff, or you can use your regular version and charm, but not use your prestige ability AND your basic bard ability.

Can anyone explain the logic behind this to me? Enthralled creatures look pretty fascinated to me... Would this overpower virtuoso's?

You can't even use enthrall and then fascinate and suggestion, it doesnt work/apply after enthrall is on.

Edit: Been reading some threads about bard build etc and everyone seems to think enthrall is great, and suggestion is too, but no one seems to mention this... am I missing some obvious reasoning? Does it work but for some reason not any time that Ive tried?!?

[Aashrym]

Hello,

I have a 16 virtuoso bard who is great to play, but it has always bothered me that Suggestion doesn't work with Enthrallment. Or at least, any time Ive tried it it hasn't.

I don't understand this. The effect is essentially the same (enthrallment and fascinate) on the monsters, except that enthrallment debuffs. To me this seems like the bonus I get for spending the points on an enhancement line (virtuoso, the singing-is-my-strength prestige if the name suggests anything), an upgraded version of fascinate.

But its not, because you can't use suggestion on enthralled creatures. So in my mind it looks like this: You can choose to use your upgraded version of fascinate and debuff, or you can use your regular version and charm, but not use your prestige ability AND your basic bard ability.

Can anyone explain the logic behind this to me? Enthralled creatures look pretty fascinated to me... Would this overpower virtuoso's?

You can't even use enthrall and then fascinate and suggestion, it doesnt work/apply after enthrall is on.

Edit: Been reading some threads about bard build etc and everyone seems to think enthrall is great, and suggestion is too, but no one seems to mention this... am I missing some obvious reasoning? Does it work but for some reason not any time that Ive tried?!?

It's listed in the known issues. Someday it will either be corrected. Either that or the decision will be made they prefer it this way.

[CanuckWisdom]

Unfortunate. Im no programmer, but how hard could it be to include in the next update..?

[Valindria]

Unfortunate. Im no programmer, but how hard could it be to include in the next update..?

Logically it goes from

IF (Target = Facisnated)
THEN
Allow suggestion;
END IF;

to

IF (Target = Facisnated OR Target= Enthralled)
THEN
Allow suggestion;
END IF;


Sometimes it's not as easy at it might seem though. There are lots of bard song issues currently. I wish they would all get fixed.

[brian14]

It's a well-known bug. Devs have been promising to fix it pretty much as long as Virtuosos have existed.

[Gorbadoc]

If anyone can think of a way to tie these bug fixes to Turbine's revenue stream, speak up. My impression is that updates are being driven by money. The numbers were suggesting that New Adventures and New Prestige Enhancements brought in the money and retained player interest, and we've been seeing updates with a lot of effort put into these things.

Right now, I suspect it's a matter of, "Oh, bards are still functional, and they are such a small fraction of the player base, so whatever." I could be wrong, but, seeing as they haven't fixed the song bugs yet, they can only have been but so high of a priority.

[CanuckWisdom]

Its of financial interest because unresponsive games are less appealing to the players.

[Aerendil]

Bugged since Day 1, and been brought up several times since then.

That and the fact it doesn't make sense to have to hotkey all the various types of fascinates. Right now, a Virtuoso who wants to use songs to cast Suggestion or Suggestion, Mass needs to hotkey Fascinate, Suggestion (Mass), Enthrallment, Music of the Dead, and Music of the Makers.
Fix the Fascinate/Enthrallment issue with regards to Suggestion, and then have all known fascinate-able monsters be mezzed with simply ONE song (be it fascinate or enthrallment). Tieing up a hotbar with half a dozen abilities is beyond ********.

Should also mention the new tier 2 abilities have bugs with Warforged that were known at the time of testing, and went live as is, with no word on if/when they'll be fixed.

Yep, the devs love Bards.

[Gorbadoc]

Bugged since Day 1, and been brought up several times since then.

That and the fact it doesn't make sense to have to hotkey all the various types of fascinates. Right now, a Virtuoso who wants to use songs to cast Suggestion or Suggestion, Mass needs to hotkey Fascinate, Suggestion (Mass), Enthrallment, Music of the Dead, and Music of the Makers.
Fix the Fascinate/Enthrallment issue with regards to Suggestion, and then have all known fascinate-able monsters be mezzed with simply ONE song (be it fascinate or enthrallment). Tieing up a hotbar with half a dozen abilities is beyond ********.

Should also mention the new tier 2 abilities have bugs with Warforged that were known at the time of testing, and went live as is, with no word on if/when they'll be fixed.

Yep, the devs love Bards.

Well, on that topic, there are MUCH cleaner ways to organize hotbars than DDO allows.

[CanuckWisdom]

I could understand why they wouldnt, or how this might be harder to program, but it would be nice if music of the makers and music of the dead were not separate songs, but just applied those creatures to fascinate.

More so they should just fix the enthrallment/suggestion thing.