U9 viable Turtle Tanking THEORY

[krisz93]

So the viability of Turtling/Intimi-tanking is getting closer and closer to 0, as tanks have to deal more and more damage to generate enough hate and keep the mob on themselves. When turtled up, there are only two options to deal damage: bashing or guards.

Stacking up lots of guards can be painful, especially if you are being hit a lot (which is going to happen if you're a tank). Usually the point of tanking is not being hit, but in this case a low AC is required to keep aggro. This means everything will strike you with 95% accuracy, and while this will be partly mitigated by the high blocking DR, the incoming damage will be pretty high. To make it easier for healers, I aimed for an exceptionally high Health to buy them enough time for heals, and superios Healing Amplification to drain less SP and make up for the high HP.

As spells do not trigger guards, casters will require more attention. Either run up to it and spam everything you have (main reason i included Divine Sacrifice) or let someone else take care of them.

As notable equipment, i would get a Triple Positive one-hander, Levik's Defender, dragontouched gearm Minos Legens and GS Guard items.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 458
Spell Points: 286 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 17
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    14
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         18                    22
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               14                    16
Charisma             14                    22

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     5
Bluff                 2                     6
Concentration         6                    23
Diplomacy             2                     6
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                6                    10
Heal                  4                     5
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            6                    36
Jump                  5                     6
Listen                2                     3
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  2                     3
Swim                  1                     2
Tumble               n/a                    n/a
Use Magic Device      6                    10

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Monk
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: CON


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: CON


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: CHA


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: CHA
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning III

Here is what i could reach with this concept:
- Good Saves with Evasion
- Effective Intimidate
- Ridiculous Base HP
- High Healing Amplification
- High blocking DR
- Nice self healing and solo capability



Healing Amp broken down
20% - Half-Elf Racial
20% - Half-Elf Monk Dilettante
10% - Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
10% - Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
10% - Paladin Hunter of the Dead III
10% - Dragontouched Eldritch Rune
20% - Dragontouched Tempest Rune
30% - Triple Positive GS
30% - Epic Gloves of the Claw
----------------------------------------------
427% Healing Amplification



Blocking DR
9(BAB) +2 +15(Levik's Defender) +5 Passive(Buffs etc)= DR31 with 25% damage off from Improved Shield Mastery

[Darkrok]

Obviously going to be highly gear intensive as we need as much as we can possibly get damage-wise from our gear.

I love the idea behind this though. It should be highly effective with the right gear. It's a shame that Divine Righteousness only increases hate through melee attacks though. Does incite gear help any with guard hate generation by chance?

[SetofBs]

Looks like a punching bag to me.

[Kmnh]

Looks like a punching bag to me.

isn't that the point of a turtling tank? :P

[unbongwah]

I'm amused by the idea, but is there some reason you wouldn't build it to do melee DPS as well as guard effects? Why so much CHA & WIS? Since you don't seem to care about UMD, what about monk instead of rogue for the extra feats?

[krisz93]

You would lose the blocking DR, and without AC you'll get more damage than any decent DPS.

[J1NG]

Quick piece of information for you.

With an intim of 52 only, I was dealing 300+ (300 to 750+) damage every 2 seconds on dragons and giants to keep full aggro from being stolen.

If at any point you have guild members, such as heavy dps or savants joining you, you will not be able to Turtle intim at all. It just won't work.

You will need to deal more than 300 damage every 2 seconds at least. Good Luck with that on an intim with a shield.

Tested in Lamannia. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=312867 look at pic 1679)

J1NG

:: edit ::

And especially if you're reliant on guards, you will be out damaged and lose aggro way too quickly.

[Spoonman457]

From tanks on lam I've heard that even with max guards and not shield blocking, any fighter TWF or THF will regain agro with in 4 -5 hits, assuming they where top of the hate list b4 your intimidate, the so called buffer is like 2 points of damage/rank of intim, so it does not last the 15 second cool down of the new intim, this is with the changes to improved shield bash, and shield mastery changes. you only get a +100% hate generation for like 10 seconds when intiming a mob.

I may be wrong, I prefer to play non tanks myself, and this is just hear say, and may be nothing more then your average dooooooom sayer, that seem to sprout when ever there are changes/updates.

Good luck with your build, it will be interesting to see if it is viable post u9

[unbongwah]

You would lose the blocking DR, and without AC you'll get more damage than any decent DPS.

Except when you lose aggro - and from what others are saying guard effects + threat boosts are not enough to hold aggro in U9 - you need to starting hitting things to regain aggro, yes? And there your base STR 12 and lack of DPS feats hurts your build.