276 point heals every 12 seconds - unlimited uses

[Darkrok]

This is a gimmick build. I currently have a 15 paladin/ 3 monk/ 2 rogue that I play. I like him although the dps is fairly paltry. As a tank though, especially against bosses, he rarely gets his sneak damage. 5 Haste I boosts are nice but amp'ing up his paltry damage just gives 15% more paltry damage. He's fun because he can tank in a different way than ac or dr - he stands there, gets the tar kicked out of him, and heals up easily with scrolls/wands/a monk's lightx3 finisher...whatever's handy.

As pointed out in another thread though, an unmodified (no meta's) CSW will now cost 12sp's. That got me thinking about whether this build could be done with wizard instead of rogue to get Echoes of Power and how that would play out. My leveling selection will NOT be optimal for these classes. I'd probably open with monk now as the highest skill point class for example. The levels do, however, fit into an LR for a 15/3/2rog to go 15/3/2wiz with two +1 hearts or a single +3 heart. This is being done primarily to abuse Echoes of Power but it surprisingly brings some other benefits that might actually make it worthwhile.

As is my normal practice, I'll post the build now and then say some more about it in the following post.

Finally, special thanks to Tobril of Sarlona for the original Kung-Fu Cowboy build without which none of this would have ever happened.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Ayrn Arcane
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(15 Paladin \ 3 Monk \ 2 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 344
Spell Points: 405 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 16
Will: 18

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             14                 21                   22
Dexterity            14                 17                   17
Constitution         14                 16                   16
Intelligence         12                 14                   14
Wisdom               12                 14                   14
Charisma             15                 18                   18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               3                 26                   26
Bluff                 2                  4                    4
Concentration         6                 26                   26
Diplomacy             2                  4                    4
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                  4                    4
Heal                  1                  2                    2
Hide                  2                  3                    3
Intimidate            4                 27                   32
Jump                  2                  6                    6
Listen                1                  2                    2
Move Silently         2                  3                    3
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  2                    2
Search                1                  2                    2
Spot                  1                  2                    2
Swim                  2                  6                    6
Tumble                3                  4                    4
Use Magic Device      4                 15                   18

Level 1 (Wizard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Scroll
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Throwing Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Lionheart
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (1): Virtue


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Inevitable Dominion (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Break Enchantment
Spell (4): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (4): Deathward
Spell (4): Holy Sword
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (4): Restoration
Spell (4): Stalwart Pact
Spell (4): Zeal


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Way of the Tenacious Badger I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II
Enhancement: Wizard Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[Aeolwind]

+1 for concept

[Darkrok]

First of all, I went a bit tome intensive here. If I'm going to redo things here I want to get some bang for my buck and fit in DMIII to up the dps a bit. To get the stats where we need them I needed a +3 dex tome to get the TWF line while staying at point-for-point buy on dex and a +3 cha tome to allow me to only spend 2 points beyond a point-for-point buy on charisma.

We gave up quite a bit from rogue. What we lose includes full UMD, Rogue Haste Boost I, 1 BaB, 1d6+3 sneak attack damage, and quite a few skills at the very least at the 4 skill point level (disable/search/open lock/tumble/jump/etc).

I'm almost tempted to consider it based on the following gains though.

We gain echoes of power. No matter how low we get on sp's, how low on resources, we'll always be able to recast divine favor or fire of a cure serious wounds. That might not sound like that big of a deal, but Divine Favor is flat-out needed by this build for to-hit and damage. And cure serious wounds heals ON AVERAGE for about 276hp's. That's with Ardor III running, Devotion IV, and our 408% healing amp with the ship buff on. The crits on it if you're wearing a major healing lore item (like the gloves from Reaver) can reach into the fill the HP bar no matter how low range. And remember - you can recast that every 12 seconds from an empty sp bar.

We gain Wand and Scroll Mastery I. +25% to all of our wands and scrolls that we use. With some serious effort (exc. charisma, maybe shifting some AP, wearing a +6/+7 charisma item, using fully upgraded spyglass) we can hit the 39 UMD mark thanks to our high starting charisma and our Skill Focus: UMD. Our own heal scrolls therefore put out 137 instead of 110. On us however, with ship buffs we get 558 (full bar) instead of 448 (close but not quite). The difference is even more pronounced in its effect w/o ship buffs when it's 508 (pretty much a full bar depending on gear) versus 408. Also a cure serious wand becomes an even better option than before going from an 87 average to 109.

We also get a few minibuffs from Wizard 2. I'd suggest Exp. Retreat and Shield/Nightshield. Being able to keep both of those up casting only once every 4 minutes (or every 2 minutes if you're running on echoes of power) can save a gear slot as well as protect from magic missiles.

So there are some trade-offs there but the build doesn't lose nearly as much as I thought it did, especially if you get back to 39 UMD while buffed.

[Darkrok]

Just to clarify the hp's on this, we're sitting at 509 unbuffed with Draconic Vitality, GFL, +6 Con, Toughness, +2 Con Tome, and a +45hp shroud item. It would be possible with both +1 and +2 exc. con, +7 con item, +3 con tome, and some AP juggling (would take 7ap) to almost touch the 600hp mark with just Rage running. Free up those 7ap's and you can take Greater Human Adaptability Con and Racial Toughness III. The con improvements then come to a total of +6 for 60 more hp's, we get 20 more from Rage, and 10 more from Racial Toughness III for a total of 599. That's honestly where you could begin consideration of tanking Horoth, especially with where that would put your Fort save.

As for threat, time will tell on that. We have Divine Righteousness a ton of times each day which will be very important. How good Intimidate ends up being will go a long way toward determining whether this toon would be tank-capable in the new system.

[Shyver]

I like the idea. +1

But a question: With the change to the Fist of light finisher being based on monk level instead of character level, is 3 monk still worthwhile do you think?

[Valindria]

Ha. I love it. Valtieri started as a 15/3/2 idea with the 2 being FVS. I used a +1 Lesser on him awhile back (before level 20) and made the 2 level fighthers.

If you could give up the free feat of the wizard, going FVS would give you more SP due to CHA. Then you could dump INT. You might want to dump WIS too since you will need all the STR you can get.

I am thinking the issue you will run into is, as you know dps is bad. Also being at low SP means you can't keep Zeal and DF going. Still it's a fun concept. Also figure that with Magic Training (i.e. magic user splash) you could keep the SP flowing giving ulimited DS attacks.

Edit: Also I will say on my paladin I have a conc op item and a bauble which pretty much doubles his spell pool. For the normal 15/3/2 builds getting a conc op and torc should be enough to keep the SP coming in.

I like the idea. +1

But a question: With the change to the Fist of light finisher being based on monk level instead of character level, is 3 monk still worthwhile do you think?

I the healing per hit will still be helpful but I am thinking the finsher will be getting less use. 3 monk gives the 1st monk 10% HA as well as all the ele/pos/ele finshers (SP Reduction is nice).

[AtomicMew]

We gave up quite a bit from rogue. What we lose includes full UMD, Rogue Haste Boost I, 1 BaB, 1d6+3 sneak attack damage, and quite a few skills at the very least at the 4 skill point level (disable/search/open lock/tumble/jump/etc).

(You don't lose any Bab actually), but I think the biggest loss is trap skills.

Also, I still don't understand why people do this with longswords. Fists are so much better and don't require you to burn 2 feats.

[Tobril]

(You don't lose any Bab actually), but I think the biggest loss is open locks skills.

Also, I have no idea how the gear slots fit together for amp purposes or how smites/sacrifice work with handwraps.

Fixed some stuff for you.

[AtomicMew]

Fixed some stuff for you.

You can be less of a jerk. I am simply stating my opinion, you don't have to go out of your way to basically "hi welcome" me.

Trap skills are incredibly important and are a big loss.

I know how healing amp works and which slots I can get them on, thanks.

Wraps are better long term DPS and (probably) similar burst DPS and most importantly, DON'T require 2 feats. I know how smites work, thanks.

[Angelus_dead]

I know how healing amp works and which slots I can get them on, thanks.

Wraps are better long term DPS and (probably) similar burst DPS and most importantly, DON'T require 2 feats.

Alright, so how are you going to slot in healing amp onto handwraps?

[AtomicMew]

Alright, so how are you going to slot in healing amp onto handwraps?

You don't? You slot 10% and 20% on DT and get 30% on epic gloves of the claw. (Or you don't have claw and just live with it.) Wraps also have vampiric option, greensteels don't, which is another big boon to wraps.

[Tobril]

You can be less of a jerk. I am simply stating my opinion, you don't have to go out of your way to basically "hi welcome" me.

Trap skills are incredibly important and are a big loss.

I know how healing amp works and which slots I can get them on, thanks.

Wraps are better long term DPS and (probably) similar burst DPS and most importantly, DON'T require 2 feats. I know how smites work, thanks.

You were the one that posted with a rather antagonistic tone, I simply replied in kind.

Trap skills are OK, but with paladin levels will be hard to take them to a useful level. (except for open locks)

Smites greatly favor TWF weapons with wide crit profiles.

[JollySwagMan]

Fixed some stuff for you.

Hm? What's wrong with using smites/sacrifice on handwraps? I appreciate the usefulness of a greensteel weapon for a healing amp focused build.

[eonfreon]

Hm? What's wrong with using smites/sacrifice on handwraps?

Terrible crit range.

[JollySwagMan]

Terrible crit range.

Ahhh, and with the update's changes to helpless states...I get it. Plus these abilities could be used with non-ki weapons situationally...I thought I had seen Stunning Fist in the feats, doh

As pointed out in another thread though, an unmodified (no meta's) CSW will now cost 12sp's. That got me thinking about whether this build could be done with wizard instead of rogue to get Echoes of Power and how that would play out. My leveling selection will NOT be optimal for these classes. I'd probably open with monk now as the highest skill point class for example. The levels do, however, fit into an LR for a 15/3/2rog to go 15/3/2wiz with two +1 hearts or a single +3 heart. This is being done primarily to abuse Echoes of Power but it surprisingly brings some other benefits that might actually make it worthwhile.

This is an interesting build idea! I know that you mentioned using a Torc, but does it function with a focus on draining the SP bar as quickly as possible for the Echoes regen/constant healing? Or do the mana regeneration items play a more prominent role?

One lowbie Robe that I'd recommend would be the Robe of the Duality from Catacombs, it would make for 8-minute self cast Shield/Exp Retreat spells using Extend.

[Tobril]

Hm? What's wrong with using smites/sacrifice on handwraps? I appreciate the usefulness of a greensteel weapon for a healing amp focused build.

Smite/sacrifice don't proc on both "hands", ravager set doesn't work with wraps, and you can have more effects with longswords.

All of these contribute more to the overall setup than the slighty faster handwraps, with a noteable exception of undead.

[Tobril]

Interesting idea, although I'd be really hesitant to plan around brand new features.

[Darkrok]

Interesting idea, although I'd be really hesitant to plan around brand new features.

This build's actually here to show how blatantly exploitable the new features are. If I get bored and luck into a +3 heart I'll LR to this on a lark.

Ah, I remembered the BaB for wizards being 2/4 but forgot it was 0, 1, 1, 2, 2, etc. That's a small help to the build.

I'd definitely miss open locks. Nice thing is that if you can land some knock 10's (or stock up on the knock 15's from the pirate event) you can make up for a lot of that. I was picking locks in the shroud with decent reliably with a knock 15 today on my bard.

I would NOT want to do this build w/o con-opp, a bauble, all those kind of toys. Luckily I've got everything but the Torc already.

The healing ki per hit is 4/8 when ship-buffed and in fire stance. That's pretty significant healing. I'll definitely miss the healing x 3 finisher though. :P

Also, you do use handwraps situationally on these type of builds. They're just not ideal unless you have very very good gear (epic gloves of the claw) and even then they hurt your smites/divine sac damage. Smites are great smite damage and divine sac is a very nice steady addition to dps.

[Tobril]

This build's actually here to show how blatantly exploitable the new features are.

Figured as much, although with all the toys it's hard to run out of mana...

But yeah, the echo of power thing is kinda silly.

[Paleus]

-Disregard- was looking at your comment about 15pally/3monk/2rog, didnt see build had wizard in it instead in the scrollable view.

I would doublecheck paladin on the test server because last time I checked it out they didn't get echoes of power, which this build is partly centered around. Admittedly, that was a while ago so it may have changed or been my imagination, but bears double-checking.